<p>Does this strike any of you as counterintuitive? How does closing the Pub improve safety, morale, or anything else?</p>
<p>They closed the equivalent of the Pub at the Air Force Academy and found a dramatic increase in DUIs because Cadets went off campus to drink. They quickly re-opened it.</p>
<p>Midshipmen over 21 should be able to have a place on campus to blow off steam and have a beer if they want. </p>
<p>I can tell you from the perspective of the midshipmen (which the administration doesn't seem to care about too much these days, but that's another topic), it is counter intuitive. The Pub was never a wild, rowdy booze fest. It was a way for seniors of age to kick back and socialize with their friends for an hour or two, on campus, while enjoying alcohol responsibly. The effect of closing it is that most of us DRIVE to bars in town and then at some point, have to DRIVE back. I have no doubt that this is what happened at the USAFA too. Some leaders at KP (and perhaps at all of the academies) think that by shielding us from something, it will just disappear from our lives. They tend to forget that there is a society out there. </p>
<p>I understand that this is a military academy (which, quite frankly, I see being used as a "cop-out" answer to justify anything around here), but the teaching of true responsibility to us, as future leaders, is very lacking. They seem more concerned about holding our hand through everything and "shielding" us from reality.</p>
<p>A legal product consumed by those legally allowed - what's the big deal? The 18th Amendment was repealed in 1933. </p>
<p>Sometimes the mids might want something a little stronger than cookies & milk to unwind and socialize. </p>
<p>Eliminating it from the campus doesn't eliminate it, it only encourages those who are inclined to consume alcohol to leave and find it elsewhere, perhaps a greater danger.</p>
<p>To my knowledge, it was nothing related to on-campus activities. However, it did coincide with a particularly bad weekend in which at least two mids were involved with OFF-CAMPUS alcohol incidents. The drinking at the KP pub itself is very mundane, no different than an evening dinner party at a home (and it is supervised). </p>
<p>Frankly, I think there were some people who wanted to close it for some time and they were waiting for an excuse (albeit, a bad one) to do so. It has solved nothing and is only making things worse. The real kicker is that this is exactly what the midshipmen tell the Commandant during open talk sessions that he holds (which I hope gets relayed up the CoC), yet nobody higher up seems to be listening.</p>
<p>Oliver says...keep the darn thing closed and lets get serious!!!!...</p>
<p>There are to many crispy Kings Pointers scorching trees on Bayview Avenue, to many lost Kings Pointers broken and maimed, to many Kings Pointers poisoned, to many Kings Pointers flamed..</p>
<p>help me..what is the battle standard .related to as far as the pub?</p>
<p>this is all crazy...if they are of age...I would rather they have a beer on campus and walk home versus ride to a local bar and back...wake up...these guys and girls have been around the world already</p>
<p>give them the responsibitlity they have already earned...</p>
<p>Oliver says...then why are they doing all this stupid stuff? Why are they breaking down doors drunk, slipping in the stinking funk? 'cause their drunk? One does not "earn" the right to drink and be stupid...you just drink and be stupid.</p>
<p>Nothing good ever comes of it. Especially at Kings Point.</p>
<p>The Supt banned initally with a not-thought through gut reaction banned all alcohol on campus for students, which would have included functions at Melville, and alumni/1st class functions including things like Luau.</p>
<p>As for letting us drink, the main reason alcohol problems at KP exist in the first place is because it is treated as a forbidden fruit. If it is constantly available, nothing bad will come of it.</p>
<p>When the Pub actually is open, nobody gets drunk there and everybody just hangs around and talks to their classmates.</p>
<p>And as for the crispy Kings Pointers... it is a lot easier to drive drunk from a bar to campus than the pub to... well I guess 20 feet away from the barracks.</p>
<p>And I have never heard or seen a door broken down due to alcohol in my four years there.</p>
<p>When you say, "When the Pub actually is open, nobody gets drunk there," your deluding yourself. Were you drinking when you wrote that?</p>
<p>"If it is constantly available, nothing bad will come of it."...Stupid is as stupid does!!</p>
<p>"as for the crispy Kings Pointers... it is a lot easier to drive drunk from a bar to campus than the pub to... well I guess 20 feet away from the barracks."....your Mom and Dad drive on the same roads as you do. Would you want that to happen to them? Is it ok if a Kings Pointer kills your sister?</p>
<p>Obviously you are NOT mature enough regardless of your age.</p>
<p>In case somebody forgot... you walk the 20 feet between the Pub and the barracks. That is the point of it being there, so you do not have to drive! So no, I would not mind if my parents walked back from a bar...</p>
<p>Anywho... I stand by my statement that I have never seen anybody get extremely drunk at the pub and that if it was open constantly, and to all classes as long as they are over 21, less alcohol offenses would occur.</p>
<p>Look at USAFA, when they closed their pub, offenses skyrocketed, when they reopened it, they barely have any.</p>
<p>And anyone who actually has a problem, shouldn't be here in the first place.</p>
<p>Midshipmen will drink, whether the pub is closed or not. Its naive to think otherwise. This is college, and students will drink. Even at military schools. Do you really think that buy closing it down and burying your head in the sand will make this problem go away? k314sig09 has a very valid point; in fact, Commandant himself would prefer that students drink on campus and avoid driving to CJ's or BHT. And what are these incidents you speak of? You seem to think that these "incidents" of people puking on the floor and kicking down doors happen weekly, but I have yet to witness any or hear about any (even none in the XYZ reports). Im not saying that it doesn't happen, but things like this happen at every college or military academy.</p>
<p>Ollie…… the world is a pretty open place to all as I’m sure you know & these Mids (and the thousands of civvy college kids in the universe) have lived it, are living it, & some have learned a little something from it. They are far from naive. Some Mids & parents I know take true, TRUE, true offense to your using “crispy” in reference to the Midshipman who was killed a few years ago (06 I believe?) then going on to include their parents & sisters in your reprimand. These are smart kids. Give them a little credit. You seem to feel rather strongly about this issue & that is respectable but there are others who feel just as strongly that these kids can make good decisions and do. </p>
<p>I plan on buying k312sig09 & USMMA09 a beer or two at graduation. If they start kicking in doors, I’ll send them on to you. :D</p>
<p>Your logic is foolish. And oh by the way, the acting Commandant is a fool. I went to the same school you are are...I know how stupid you guys get...drinking is foolish and the campus should be dry.</p>
<p>JAMZmom,
Sorry to have to disagree with you. I have never in 30 years seen any smart decisions by any King's Pointer when he was drinking...never...never...ever...</p>
<p>JM: Long time no see. Our time is short. Just a quick drop by to see if the KP threads, now that the Navy threads have calmed down cconsiderably, are still wavy.</p>
<p>So, let me get this straight, you are trying to make a point to somebody who writes in the third person? JM, have you learned nothing in three and three-quarters years?</p>
<p>C'mon remind these folks of what's important, like what type of underwear should be taken to whatever it is you call summer training.</p>
<p>Off you go . . . into the wild blue yonder. :)</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>[I've even used one of my remaining 28 posts to say hello. aren't you special.]</p>
<p>I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up about Oliver's posting. If you want to drink, than drink, if you don't want to drink, than don't drink. Fine make the campus dry, but if you want the mids to stop drinking entirely you have to lock us down here as well. Oh and to do that, you're going to need to revamp the CDO job (probably will cost a nice penny) and it would probably be smart to give us something to do on the weekends as well. I know that if you lock us down here, even when we're sober, some people will do some stupid/mischievous things...it happened during the safety stand down. So fine, go ahead and hold my hand, but don't start moaning when I tug at it.</p>