Cloud Cuckoo Land - February CC Book Club Selection

Doerr is quoted above: “For many British and Irish readers, ‘Cloud Cuckoo Land’ is a very familiar phrase.” I’ve seen it in British newspapers (“Prime Minister is in cloud cuckoo land on EU trade deal”), but it’s not used much around these parts.

Since it means to be living in a fantasy land, detached from reality, believing that the circumstances you are in are much better than they are, I’d say it’s an ironic title in terms of the five protagonists of the novel. Konstance, Anna, Omeir, Zeno and Seymour are very much grounded in reality – none of them has any illusions about the situations they are in. (Konstance is duped about where she is, but she definitely doesn’t view her situation through rose-colored glasses.)

Another ironic name in the book: Eden’s Gate. Made me think of Joni Mitchell’s line, “They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.”

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I don’t think the source of the deadly illness is ever spelled out, but it’s suggested that the Argos was not well-sealed (Konstance saw an ant) and the germ came in from the outside. The question is, what has happened on the outside during the year Konstance is sealed in the vault? We don’t know, but people clearly survived. Not anyone on the Argos, though, or so it seems.

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I assumed the illness on the Argos was just some mutation of an existing virus that was too fast-acting to handle in such a small environment. I didn’t think it necessarily came from the outside. I’m sure the original members of Argos came in with all manner of benign germs that had 65 years to become something less benign.

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It wasn’t clear where the virus came from—it was just clear that it spread quickly and lethally—like in any closed system/ship.

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  1. How would you describe Zeno’s personality and why do you think Zeno is unable to go with Rex’s escape plan?

Zeno is not a man of action (until the end). Living in Mrs. Boydstun’s house his whole life seemed more like a path of least resistance rather than a conscious choice. I think he was paralyzed by fear of the unknown when given the opportunity to escape with Rex. Granted, it wasn’t a great choice — seemed like certain death. In fact, now that I think on it, I’d say Rex was living in cloud cuckoo land as he made his plans for escape. They were optimistic to the point of absurdity.

“A corner-turner,” someone calls him. “Sectionable,” another says, because, as everyone knows, successfully escaping from Camp Five is a fantasy (p. 188).

But there is something irresistible about cloud cuckoo land, be it in a story, or in the living, breathing person in front of you.

If Zeno had escaped with Rex, I don’t think it would have turned out to be a lifelong love affair. Zeno is very different from Hillary. And from what I could tell of their time in Camp Five, Rex seemed fond of Zeno, but not in love with him. (If that had been the case, presumably Rex would have looked for Zeno after the war.)

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Kudos @Mary13 for your explanation of Zeno’s personality, and why he didn’t escape with Rex, and, if he had, they weren’t likely to stay Together, probably leaving Zeno more devastated and heartbroken than he was living with awful chain smoking Mrs B. And those creepy figurines.

And, then Doer paints a picture of such desolation and loneliness, as he describes, Zeno, alone driving a plow, during blizzard with snow blinding his view, up and down the same roads, a thankless job, done by invisible, unloved, lonely Zeno. Just so depressing,

Until, the play, the children, the bonding, finally being “ happy” ………
I think Zeno was the saddest character, the other’s found their peace on earth, Did Zeno ?

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@packacards I , also, was surprised about Argo, on earth, and like you thought the ant, and the virus were just some mutant thing that just happened. :woman_shrugging:

I thought the virus was just some fairly innocuous virus mutating, but then I didn’t realize until much, much later that the ant was a hint that they weren’t out in space. I think either is possible and it doesn’t really matter which is true.

I didn’t see Zeno as terribly sad. Just not very enterprising. He seemed content enough with his life. And while he didn’t get together with Rex, that visit did push him to doing the translation.

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I think Zeno was sad, but it wouldn’t have taken much to make him happy. He realized that as much as he loved Rex, Rex and London were not for him. If Zeno could’ve been out in Idaho, I think he would’ve been very happy with a quiet life with a man who loved him snowplowing and translating. That was what was so heartbreaking about Zeno’s story, how easy it would’ve been for him to have a happy, fulfilling life if he had simply been allowed to love and be loved.

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What are the odds! In today’s NY Times, a featured front page article about “environmental anxiety” people, mostly younger, so distraught about climate changes, they seek therapy.

Seymour would have benefited - therapy for climate change anxiety “eco-anxiety”

Climate Change Enters the Therapy Room

PORTLAND, Ore. — It would hit Alina Black in the snack aisle at Trader Joe’s, a wave of guilt and shame that made her skin crawl.

Something as simple as nuts. They came wrapped in plastic, often in layers of it, that she imagined leaving her house and traveling to a landfill, where it would remain through her lifetime and the lifetime of her children.

She longed, really longed, to make less of a mark on the earth. But she had also had a baby in diapers, and a full-time job, and a 5-year-old who wanted snacks. At the age of 37, these conflicting forces were slowly closing on her, like a set of jaws.

In the early-morning hours, after nursing the baby, she would slip down a rabbit hole, scrolling through news reports of droughts, fires, mass extinction. Then she would stare into the dark.

It was for this reason that, around six months ago, she searched “climate anxiety” and pulled up the name of Thomas J. Doherty, a Portland psychologist who specializes in climate.

A decade ago, Dr. Doherty and a colleague, Susan Clayton, a professor of psychology at the College of Wooster, published a paper proposing a new idea. They argued that climate change would have a powerful psychological impact — not just on the people bearing the brunt of it, but on people following it through news and research. At the time, the notion was seen as speculative……….

Recent research has left little doubt that this is happening. A 10-country survey of 10,000 people aged 16 to 25 published last month in The Lancet found startling rates of pessimism.
Forty-five percent of respondents said worry about climate negatively affected their daily life. Three-quarters said they believed “the future is frightening,” and 56 percent said “humanity is doomed.”

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Very interesting, @jerseysouthmomchess! I’d like to write a new ending for Seymour, where he cross paths with Thomas Doherty instead of the mysterious “Bishop.”

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It’s true that it would not have taken much for Zeno to have been happier but he seemed content enough. Not everyone will search for more when they are “content enough.” He was happy to have been helping the kids and they liked him.

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For history buffs, this is the location of the Virgin of the Source, where Anna took Maria in hopes of curing her. The original shrine was destroyed by the invading Ottomans:

The novel says that the nuns gave Maria water mixed with mercury. It wasn’t clear to me whether the mercury was added or occurred naturally in the spring, but either way, I think the cure was worse than the disease. Maria seemed to exhibit some symptoms of mercury poisoning on top of the brain injury received at the hands of the terrible Kalaphates.

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To be honest, I sometimes have a bit of my own minor stresses about Climate Change practices. Nothing serious, but a big diff from earlier years when no thought over all the stuff I throw in the trash. Alas, I am becoming more like my frugal, depression era dad than I would have anticipated. Luckily I don’t let it rule over my every move, and I don’t feel tempted to put a bomb in my backpack.

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Back in the olden days, they thought mercury had curative properties.

They were wrong.

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Most people know of elemental mercury as that slippery, silvery liquid once used with ubiquity in glass thermometers. If you were a child before helicopter parenting, you might have had the opportunity to play with the contents of a broken thermometer. The glimmering balls skittered everywhere and delighted children for hours.

Childhood flashback :rofl:

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Definite childhood flashback to broken mercury thermometer. Now I have one from my mother that might have mercury… almost scared to use it (and not even sure if there is a safe way to discard).

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Same. Much of that shift is from watching my grown children be more conscientious about the environment than I ever was at their age. They take “reduce, reuse, recycle” very seriously and I try to follow suit. I do feel anxiety about the future of the planet. I look at old photos of my husband and kids hiking in Glacier National Park and wonder what will be left for our grandchildren. I read a stat the other day that as a result of climate change, 30 to 50 percent of all species will be extinct by 2050.

Yet I also think about the NPR review of Cloud Cuckoo Land posted earlier, which summed up the intertwined stories as follows: Life is hard. Everyone believes the world is ending all the time. But so far, all of them have been wrong.

Just hoping our luck holds out.

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Re: Maria drinking water with mercury – yeah, as soon as I read that I thought, “That can’t be good.”

I also have memories of “playing” with mercury …

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Little mercury balls a vivid childhood memory, and Many Glacier Lodge In glacier Park a very special place, @Mary13 , I’ve read the glaciers are disappearing now in park :cry:

Fun interview wiht Seth Meyers, talks about Netflix, “all the light we cannot see”, certainly Cloud Cuckoo land not far behind, Seth asks some good questions

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