CMC, no financial aid... worth it?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Claremont McKenna College
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Hey guys, I don’t know if this is the right place to post this because if you’re on this forum you’re probably for CMC, but I really want to know the ins and outs of the college and most importantly, if it’s worth the price. I’ve visted the college and I love the environment and everything that it offers, but I also do not qualify for any need based financial aid and didn’t receive any merit based scholarships. I have a younger brother whos about 5 years younger. My familyis middle-high socioeconomic status, but regardless, ~70 grand a year is no joke. They are willing to pay it, but I know it will be a burden and I want to make sure I will be getting enough “bang for my buck” or whatever from CMC if I go. Right now I am considering the 3+2 Management Engineering program.

The other option I have it UT McCombs, which is nationally reputed college with in-state tuition. I wasn’t auto admit so this was a reach college for me too… which makes me feel a little bad about saying no to it. I like the college also, it’s just a little big and I know I will not be getting as much personal attention as I could at CMC, plus this is strictly business. However, as I said, it is reputable and I’m sure I would do well here too.

I’m leaning more towards CMC, I’m kind of juts looking for justification to pay. It’s a little scary to put that much money down, but at the same time it’s inviting because I know I am not just paying for a brand name, I am paying for an experience with no TA’s, endless research/intenrship opportunities, etc. Am I right?.. or am I leaning the wrong way?

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Yes, you are leaning the wrong way. You can do the exact same thing at UT for less costs to your parents.
CMC is a good school, but struggling to pay over a quarter of a million dollars, for a 4 year degree, is just not worth it.

Your previous threads have indicated that your parents will be selling cars to send you to California. They will be nearing retirement soon and will need savings. You won’t be getting that money back. You will also have additional “entertainment” costs and California is very expensive. CMC is nice, but it is small, and you have to have a car to get around to those “endless research/internship opportunities” and pay for gas in SoCal. Right now, the ARCO down the street, from my house is $3.39 per gallon. LA is more expensive given our environmental taxes.

Going into a major, that you are not strong in, with competitive classmen, doesn’t bode well for you. You don’t know how well you will deal with being away from home (time management-rapidity of courses, grades, laundry, team projects, homesickness).

Even though you won’t listen and will probably go to CMC, you need to think with your head (finances). It will affect your future.

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@“aunt bea”

Are you sure I will be able to do “the exact same thing” at UT? I’ve done A LOT of research on both schools, both online and talking to people who go there. I also got into other elite or prestigious private schools, but they are not even in the running right now because I know I will be able to do the exact same thing at UT… why pay 70 grand for the same big class sizes, the same lack of professor interaction, the same emphasis on grad over under grad?

CMC is in the top for me because I feel that it offers something completely different than that of UT. Class sizes are capped at 18 and the student resources facility works very closely with each individual student. I think I may have over done my situation in the last thread, my parents aren’t selling ALL their cars. They bought three luxury cars last year (not very smart financial decision imo), and are selling MY car and downsizing on another one. One of them is a doctor and the other is an engineer… they can pay for the college, we are all just concerned as to whether it is worth it.

Also, if you have gone through all my threads and history, then you must have also seen the one where I posted my stats & credentials. When I mentioned I’m not very good at STEM, i mentioned i’m not very good at getting THE GRADE in stem. I have been working on internationally recognized and patented research for the past 5 years, all funded and done by myself. I don’t have a 99 in the cs, but I have developed multiple apps over the past couple of years, one which won multiple awards. I am not a GRADE only person. I am looking for a college that will recognize me for the things I am good at–application and intitiative-- and expand on that. I’m not sure if I will be able to do that at a college where I am one face in 500+ sitting in a classroom (I didn’t get into the honors program, so my class sizes will be 300+).

Sorry if this came off wrong, just a little stressed because as much as I don’t want to run my parents dry, I also want to go to a place that will bring out the best in me… My parents are willing to pay, they have also made some bad financial decisions in the past, but know that an education is the best investment they could make.

There is public transportation that runs by CMC to LA for 6$… a lot of the kids there use that. I definitely won’t be getting a car. In addition, CMC funds students to do internships over the summer, an average of 3,400$ per student. I don’t see that at UT… so not sure if it is the “exact same experience”.

And won’t competitive classmen in a work hard play hard environment encourage me to do better? I’m not trying to make a misinofrmed or wrong decision just based on brand name. UT is a great school, also with competitive classmen… but I’ve heard lots of stories about how those competitive classmen quickly turn uncompetitive when they are sucked into the UT environment… that’s what scares me. I would rather pay for a school that will present me with opportunities and guide me than pay less for undergrad and freak out at the end of the four years when my gpa is eh, i have no plans after 4 years, or am majoring in something that I am really not that interested in. Please keep in mind im just an 18 year old girl who is trying to make the right decision with my parents best interest in mind too… I want to make sure I have the best ROI… college is an investment on myself, so I want to make the most of it.

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You’ve already made your decision, and you really don’t want to hear anything different, so why bother to ask and be so defensive?

FWIW: I have 3 kids that have been through this.

One, went to a UC with 500-1000 kids in her math and bio classes; she was able to access the professors, often. It’s not that difficult. She’s in grad school now doing research and very grateful that we were able to save money for her grad school fees.

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Why not go to UT and get a grad degree at CMC or wherever? By then you’ll know how much money your parents will need to pay for your brother’s education.

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@“aunt bea”

Sorry for coming off that way, I just wanted to give as much info as I could. If my parents are paying for this, then I don’t think I will be going to grad school right out of under grad and I also would never make my parents pay for grad school too. I’m not going into medicine or something, so it’s not like i will need to go to grad school immediately if i land a job right after college… that’s kind of the route i was planning on taking at UT and CMC.

Your daughter must have been very lucky or very hard working. A lot of the kids I’ve talked to at UT even struggle to have meaningful interactions with their TA’s… that’s a problem for me.

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FWIW, I agree that CMC isn’t worth the additional price over and above UT. Yes, CMC is very good, and I say this as someone who attended the Claremont grad school. But it’s not good enough to justify the price difference or the burden on your parents’ finances.

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So keep in mind this is not free v. full private college tuition. UT in-state tuition and fees is about $35,000. So the real question: Is CMC worth $35k more per year than UT Austin?

As others have written, the two schools are very different. I understand why you’re leaning to CMC after your visit. It’s an amazing institution, surrounded by other fantastic and diverse schools. The internships and research institutes can’t be replicated in most other undergraduate programs. And you’ll be in an environment that is challenging and supportive.

If your family is on board, I don’t see why you’d hesitate. The experience and education you’ll get at CMC can’t be replicated at a large institution. UT is a great school and there’s certainly many great things to say about the caliber of students there, the instruction, and the opportunity. But it’s simply not on par with what you’re provided at CMC. The school is expensive, but you will get much more in return.

And to correct @“aunt bea” : you won’t need a car ever. You can walk everywhere. Most students don’t have a car. And most of those who do live in Southern California and have it so they can go home occasionally to get some spending money and laundry done. She clearly knows very little about the Claremont Colleges in general, the area of the schools, and CMC in particular. You’ve clearly done lots of work to get in, and much research to make the best decision. It’s time to commit.

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This girl wants to go to CMC at $70K, she asked if it was worth it. She has a younger brother whose “education” may be affected by these costs. It’s $280K over four years. She won’t get a refund.

True, as long as you stay and uber in that area.
Is it worth the extra money. No.

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@“aunt bea”
She asked if it’s worth it. One needs to understand that the difference is not 70 k; it’s 35k.

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IMHO, if you want a fairly traditional undergrad business/management program, it probably makes more sense to get that at UT. But if you want a broader liberal arts and sciences foundation, more interdisciplinary exploration, and more focus on, shall we say, intellectual discourse, as opposed to primarily on skill-set acquisition, then CMC may be worth the extra money if your parents can realistically make that work. What gives me pause is how you casually propose 3-2 engineering. You sound interested and involved in science, but I’m not hearing a heavy commitment to engineering per se, and this plan presumes that your parents will also pay for an equally-expensive FIFTH year of undergrad. It seems to me that if you really want the CMC experience, you could reasonably commit to a four year plan, i.e. the Science Management program. That would maximize your opportunity to take advantage of the top-notch CMC Economics and Keck Science coursework that you would not get at UT, without hitting your parents up for both a more expensive school AND an extra year of college.

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Here’s the thing, OP - how much of a burden will it be on your parents? You’ve said it will be a burden, but the details are important here. If your parents can afford it, no problem, congrats! Go where ever you want. But you’ve suggested that it will be a problem, and you haven’t told us how much of one.

Will it gut their retirement or their savings? Will they have to work longer? If yes, how many years? Will they have to take out tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars in Parent Plus loans? Can they realistically afford your brother’s education after paying for yours?

You’ve described their economic status as “middle-high.” Can middle-high really absorb more well over quarter of a million dollars in college expenses? Can they do it twice if your brother also wants to go to an expensive private institution?

CMC is roughly twice the cost of UT, but it’s not twice as good* in my opinion. Twice the cost means your parents could pay for two full price college educations for the same money - your education and your brother’s.

*UT McCombs is ranked #17 in the nation. That’s going to be hard to beat, even for CMC, and especially at double the price.

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@DiotimaDM

Okay. One of my parents is a doctor and the other is an engineer, pretty well off. We live in a pretty expensive area too, it’s definitely not cheap to live here. If I were to choose UT, I would be staying in private off campus housing my first year which is an extra 20 grand, which my parents are willing to pay for. So that also minimizes the cost difference between the two to an extent.

I don’t care as much about rankings as I do about the value of a college. Rankings are crude and often ill-informed–based off of things that don’t really matter but can be measured instead of the things that do matter but can’t be measured. Obviously I am money conscious and know the value of UT which is why I am even having this dilemma. What interested me about CMC and what made me choose that as one of the top two was that it was completely different. For the price of one private college I would also be getting the benefits of 5 equally as good colleges and I really like the liberal arts experience too. UT is a really good school and if I follow a set path I will end up successful and I know that, but this gives me the opportunity to experiment a little but more which is both exciting and scary at the same time.

My parents are kind of going along with whatever I want, they don’t know much about the colleges apart from what I’ve told them. I’ve done most of the research during this college process and they want this to be my choice. They are generously willing to pay and I just want to make sure their money isn’t going to waste, which is why I’m debating so hard. They are both in the prime of their careers with a lot of room to move up too, almost 20-25 years till retirement (this is what they said).

My parents have a college savings plan for me and my brother that we’ve had since we were 8. I don’t want to be selfish and like hog all the money or something, but my brother and I also have 5 years gap in between us, by which time I would have finished. I am also not planning on going to grad school right after undergrad… I will be getting a job first wherever I go. I hope this is enough info? I don’t know all of the details and I also don’t want to over expose anything…

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Cool, thank you. I get you for not wanting to go into too much detail, but it’s hard to give informed opinions without a better idea.

It’s sounding like you might be in the “they can afford it so go where you want” category. If you’ve satisfied yourself that that’s the case, awesome! Go where you want to go.

Cheers!

Dia

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As a parent who is paying full pop at CMC, I do feel it has been worth it. My son’s experience has been incredible. He has done research with his econ prof starting as a freshman. Career support services are strong at CMC, and I am happy to say he has an internship this summer where he will earn the bulk of his tuition for next year. It was a tough thing to accept as he turned down more prestigious universities, but it has ended up being a wonderful choice.

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Students rarely complete 3+2 programs. Colleges offer them, but must students who enter with the idea of doing them don’t go through with it. If you really want an engineering degree, go to UT.

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@intparent 's point, that the 3+2 transfer is unlikely to come to fruition, is valid. The science management program at CMC offers the STEM component without the engineering piece, which may be a better fit anyway - OP’s interest in engineering seems like an afterthought, vs. a clear drive to study not just science, but actual engineering. Outside of a full-on 3-2 program, there are a very few entry-level engineering classes at Harvey Mudd that consortium students can take (my d at Scripps is actually taking one in the fall), but not enough to comprise a true concentration.

On the other hand, one of the major options at McCombs is Science & Technology Management, which does in fact include engineering classes at Cockrell. https://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/~/media/Files/MSB/BBA/Science%20and%20Tech%20Management.pdf If an engineering focus is OP’s goal, this might actually be the better fit, whereas if lab sciences are her thing, CMC/Keck would be better aligned with her interests. Both sound like terrific programs, but the difference in focus is quite distinct.

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Okay, so thanks for everyone’s opinion but I think my decision was made even before I came here, I just needed enough people to tell me not to do it. I’m gonna choose cmc because there are some experiences and opportunities that you can’t put a price on… no matter how much you try. UT is a great school without a doubt and I am so lucky to be accepted into both… but guys… i was 12% class rank. I am a B student with a lot of passion and a lot of interests and a lot of drive to bring my visions to life… and holy crap! I got into one of my top choice schools because they saw me for it, and I’m confident i won’t let them down.

For everyone who laughs/judged because I’m paying double the tuition, keep in mind that I would have also paid 20 grand extra to stay in private housing at UT… and i genuinely feel that every penny is worth it at cmc. I think it is so important to be responsible when making college decisions, especially when your parents are generously willing to pay for it. But I am choosing CMC over other top tier institutions such as UT McCombs, Babson, Northwestern, cmc’s sister school Pitzer, and Rice. It’s not for the name, it’s for the opportunities/experience/attention/guidance/emphasis on each individual student. I don’t think you can OR should put a price on that.

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Congrats on a well-considered decision, @ajipop and sorry you felt piled-onto here. Best of luck, and hope you have a wonderful experience at CMC!

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(Not to invalidate your remarks by the way I phrased that… I think you felt that way for good reason, and I agree with your assessment. Wish I could say this thread was the worst pile-on I’ve seen, but sadly, not even close. :frowning: )