CMC vs. Pomona

Colleges and Universities A-Z Claremont McKenna College
1

<p>I got accepted to both as a transfer and I'm having a really tough time deciding between the two. I'm planning on majoring in Economics, Political Science, and/or Environmental Studies, but I'm not positive. My pro/con list (feel free to add/edit anything on the list):</p>

<p>CMC Pro's:
Excels at Economics and Political Science
Students are seemingly very driven to succeed
A lot of high ranking business executives graduated from CMC
CMC's website talks about being focused on economics, politics and the environement, which is almost exactly what I want to do</p>

<p>CMC Con's:
Not as well known as Pomona (is CMC somewhat of a Pomona-reject school?)
Students are stereotyped as drinking a lot</p>

<p>Pomona Pro's:
An excellent school all-around, known as one of the best LAC's in the nation
Possibly better departments if I decide to major in something other than Poli Sci or Economics
Dorms are great
Seems to have great connections to other schools (study abroad at Oxford or Cambridge, etc)
More well known than CMC and harder to get accepted
Students are stereotyped as being more laid back than CMC students</p>

<p>Pomona Con's:
Harder academically than CMC (I know this isn't a good reason but I can't help but be a little intimitadated by the seemingly huge workload)
Not as well connected to the business world</p>

<p>Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!</p>

2

<p>The decision will have to come down to fit.</p>

<p>If your goal is to go into business, CMC isn't going to give you an edge over Pomona, and Pomona won't give you an edge over CMC. </p>

<p>Pomona's Environmental Analysis Program in Economics (Or any other subtrack of your choice) is arguably no better or worse than CMC's Econ/Enviro/Politics program. If you KNOW you are going to stay within an environmental policy program, it's a wash, although Pomona will offer a stronger science background, and stronger departments in all other areas. </p>

<p>Pomona's study abroad programs are a little more extensive, but the academics at CMC are a little easier. </p>

<p>On every axis, it's too close to call, so bring it into fit. </p>

<p>Which campus do you feel you fit in better on? They are very different socially, so this might be something that only visiting can help you out with. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

3

<p>If you plan on majoring in economics or political science, I would recommend going to CMC. It is known to be better than Pomona in those departments. If you intend to enter the business world, CMC will also give you an advantage. MNkeeper, CMC students are actually more laid back than Pomona students; it's not the other way around. </p>

<p>That said, Pomona is more well known and generally considered a better school overall. Pomona admissions is also arguably more competitive than CMC admissions, though a number of people would dispute that.</p>

4

<p>If you plan on majoring in economics or political science, I would recommend going to CMC. It is known to be better than Pomona in those departments.</p>

<p>You say this like it's a fact. Who knows this? Just because a major is more popular at a certain school doesn't mean that the department is stronger. By that logic, Georgia Tech has a stronger math department than Princeton. I would say that it's known that the opposite is true. </p>

<p>Laid-back is a vague term, I'd say that students of both campuses are pretty laid-back; it's hard not to be at the resort that is the Claremont Colleges. As for "stereotyped as drinking a lot" the CMC Deans and VPs are sitting down this summer to hash out the growing problems that alcohol has caused on campus over the past few years. The result will probably be a change in policy that will curb this "CON" of your CMC v. Pomona analysis.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the responses. brassmonkey, could you explain a little more how the schools are different socially? I agree that this will play a big part in my decision. The problem is that when I visit both schools next week the students won't be on campus so it'll be difficult for me to grasp the social aspect.</p>

6

<p>Brassmonkey, could you expand on where you heard that the CMC Administration is looking to fix the "alcohol problem" on campus?</p>

<p>I think we<em>tard</em>it was trying to say that CMC has much larger (and stronger in my opinion, but when you get to comparing elite colleges it's kind of difficult) government and economics departments and provide for a larger selection of courses with outstanding faculty like Prof. Pitney. CMC has one of the best government departments in the nation and the best economics depts for any college. The faculty at both CMC and Pomona are very strong, but I would give CMC the edge for these departments.</p>

7

<p>The reformation of the alcohol (and other) polic(ies) was noted when the Pomona administration discussed what sort of consequences CMC would face for the damage done by the 24-hour party. The need to address changes was recognized before that weekend, but it was those events that brought the fact that there will be changes to attention.</p>

8

<p>Skyhawkk, we<em>tard</em>it, have either of you ever taken a class at Pomona? Or even CMC for that matter?</p>

<p>To base your facts on stereotypes and impressions you got on a single overnight visit alone will only make this decision harder for MNKeeper. </p>

<p>We know you're excited about attending CMC, but (to use an analogy) you shouldn't compare apples and oranges, especially when you've never eaten fruit before.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
You say this like it's a fact. Who knows this?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Brassmonkey, that statement is particularly hilarious as it comes from someone who has demonstrated a blatant tendency to confuse biased opinions and facts for the sole purpose of extolling the virtues of Pomona and belittling the remaining Claremont Colleges. </p>

<p>I do not really understand what you seek to gain by misleading students who seek objective information about CMC. While you seem unimpressed by students relying on stereotypes, I wish you'd realize how much your posts confirm the nature of the relations between Pomona's and CMC's students.</p>

10

<p>Personal thoughts regarding your original pro/con list:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Both schools excel at econ/poli sci, though the departments are more visible on CMC, and the interests are more common among the CMC study body as a whole. Overall, though, I agree with brassmonkey on this point.</p></li>
<li><p>The CMC/drinking stereotype exists for a good reason. If you don't really drink much, but don't mind being in an environment where it's common, you'll be fine...not pressured, not judged. If you don't much want to be around it, though, you'll may have problems. Drinking is fairly pervasive. Can't say how that may or may not change next year.</p></li>
<li><p>If you decide to major in something other than poli sci/econ, you can cross-register or, if necessary, off-campus major (as a CMC student, anyway). If you don't mind CMC's econ/civ/etc. GE's, I wouldn't worry too much about the possibility of changing your mind. Neither school will limit your options, IMO.</p></li>
<li><p>When it comes to the random guy on the street, neither school is well known relative to larger universities. Among LAC's, I'd assume they're pretty equally well-recognized. When you're choosing among LAC's, though, I'd say that the only "name-value" that counts is that which exists among grad/professional schools and potential employers. Again, I assume pretty equal footing.</p></li>
<li><p>I wouldn't say that Pomona students are more laid-back than CMC-ers. It's SoCal...everyone's relatively easy-going. If forced to choose, though, I'd actually say the opposite, at least as far as the day-to-day is concerned. Again, not a notable difference in my experience.</p></li>
<li><p>Pomona is not, in my own personal experience, academically more challenging than CMC. I found them pretty on par with one another, although the classroom environments were distinct. I have more experience with CMC courses than Pomona courses, but if workload worries you, avoid both. They're fantastic, fantastic places to go to school, but you will work.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I think that brassmonkey said it right with his first response: this will come down to fit. You have two great choices...neither will limit your future options, and the schools even have a great deal in common. What feels better?</p>

<p>Good luck, and congrats on the acceptances.</p>

<p>ETA: There have been multiple "CMC v. Pomona" threads in the past. Try a search to see other thoughts.</p>

11

<p>


</p>

<p>I've said it before and I'll say it again here, it's in all of our best interest as 5-C students to promote all of the Claremont Colleges as much as we can. The strength of each school grows with the strength of the system. I strongly believe this, and if you look at my posting history, you'll rarely find me mentioning disparaging words about any of the 5-C's. (I tried to find where I made this point before, but they only let you look back a couple months). I think the Claremont Colleges are some of the best LACs in the country, and offer an amazing undergraduate experience unlike that at any other institution. The five college system has immense potential, and by making more students aware of the offerings of each school, it can only grow towards that potential. Do I get the chance to promote Pomona more often than the others? It comes with being a student there. But it's be a shame to confuse my endorsement of Pomona with a belittlement of the other 4 colleges. Rare is there a student who wouldn't fit in at one of the 5-Cs, and I am constantly recommending the Claremont Colleges to students on this site, as well as off. I've convinced my brother to apply ED to CMC because I feel it is a great fit for him, and he's interested in politics. I've encouraged every potential engineering student I've known to look at HMC because it's offers an unparalleled engineering undergraduate experience which should not be overlooked. A significant percentage of this year's class at my high school applied to CMC, Scripps, and Pitzer, whereas I was the first person in the history of the school to apply to any of the Claremont Colleges. I've been an ambassador for the Claremont Colleges because I think it deserves an ambassador.</p>

12

<p>Brassmonkey, thank you for the lengthy explanation. </p>

<p>In the past, I have often written that the best attribute of the Claremont 5C is the complementary of courses offered at the various schools. One of the reasons is that each one of the schools has developed specialties that exceeds the average of the remaining school. </p>

<p>Inasmuch as Pomona is easily the most recognizable school --and the still the most selective-- among the five colleges and that it offers several programs that are better and more competitive, Pomona cannot claim to be better or even equal to the specialty programs at the remaining four schools. </p>

<p>From my vantage point, this is something that you have some difficulty in accepting when posting statements such as "Yes, CMC has a larger faculty than Pomona for Economics or Government, but that does not mean CMC is a better choice for those two programs." In so many words, this is an attempt to equate Pomona's programs that are better than average with CMC's best programs. </p>

<p>When it comes to making a choice between colleges within the 5C, it is very true that the issue of best fit becomes critical. However, recognizing **correctly **the best programs at each school should play an important role as well.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, I have recommended Pomona, Scripps, Pitzer, and especially HMC more than I can recall, and more often that I have recommended CMC.</p>

13

<p>The bitterest debates I ever overheard in Claremont were about CMC vs. Pomona's econ departments.</p>

<p>I'm actually not kidding.</p>

<p>Bottom-line, IMO: Both are great, and whichever school you choose (regardless of how strongly you consider the schools' individual departments), you'll get to have a great time splitting hairs when you arrive on campus ;)</p>

14

<p>Student615, with all due respect, I don't think there is much of a debate among people who happen to attend or have graduated from the programs discussed in this thread. There is very little value in debating which programs are "better" and, after a while, such discussions yield more yawns and shrugs than spirited discussions. The constant bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of 5-C students NEVER regretted the choice of college and programs they made years ago. In addition, the "value" of those choices seems to be reinforced by the growing popularity --and selectivity-- of every one of the 5-C schools. </p>

<p>Of course, the interpretations and opinions might differ for people who appraise CMC's program from the ... outside. While cross registrations do only offer a partial set of data, one might consider how many CMCers take econ classes at the other colleges versus the opposite. </p>

<p>And, fwiw, the chasm between the economics and finance programs within the 5C is bound to grow larger for the next generations of students.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Student615, with all due respect, I don't think there is much of a debate among people who happen to attend or have graduated from the programs discussed in this thread.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I found myself witness to a number of heated discussions on the topic. If you managed to avoid them, consider yourself lucky, because I agree with you...they were, among other things, pretty useless. I'm 100% in agreement with your bottom-line.</p>

16

<p>My daughter is a rising junior at CMC and I'd like to second Hungryman's observations (on the Pomona forum's discussion of this topic) about some of the unique opportunities that CMC offers its students. The speaker series at the Ath is unparalleled as far as I can tell. We have many friends with kids at Stanford, Brown, Amherst and other top tier colleges and universities, and none of them have such easy access to the top minds of our times, four nights a week. The internships are another incredible resource, readily availible to students with enough iniative to find an agency-anywhere in the country as well as in many Pacific Rim countries- where they can intern. My daughter interned for our city last year and this year has an internship at a non profit, both far away from LA. Her friends are interning all over the country and she hopes to do an overseas internship some time before graduation. CMC really walks its talk about combining a superb liberal arts education with opportunities to put theory into practice in the real world, for their very directed and active student body. </p>

<p>My daughter has never been a big drinker and has a wonderful circle of friends who respect that in her. The different quads offer different exposure to the party scene so you have some choice about how much you want to be in the middle of it all. </p>

<p>Another asset of the CMC community that folks rarely mention is the wonderful diversity of the student body, racially, politically, and economically.
If you want to be in an atmosphere where every idea along the political spectrum is represented, debating with all sorts of people, CMC is the place for you. My daughter wrote her leadership essay on the founder of the Catholic Workers Party and I think that's what got her admitted, so don't buy the impression that CMS is primarily "conservative". At the same time, as Xiggi can attest, there are plenty of conservatives, libertarians and every other point along the political spectrum respresented in the student body. Talking about Wesleyan, my daughter remarked that now that she was at CMC, she thought it would be boring to be on a campus where everyone agreed with her. I don't know about the overall diversity of the Pomona student body but my impression is that politically at least, it is more like other LAC's in its homogeneity. To be perfectly honest I worried about my daughter going to a college where a third of the students were conservative, which is weird considering what a truly "liberal" turn of mind is supposed to be, but it has turned out to be a great and very stimulating experience. I also think CMC students looking to go into politics get a great education in participating in a community where all kinds of opinions are on the table, but the discourse remains civil. That is something our entire society needs to rediscover how to do.</p>

<p>At the same time as I applaud CMC's unique opportunities, I've encouraged my daughter to take some classes at Pomona, because of its absolutely fantastic academic reputation. The 5Cs all seem to have something very special to offer and especially for students who take advantage of the additional opportunities the 5 college consortium opens up, simply can't be beat.</p>

17

<p>People who know me tell me that CMC is not my personality, if anything they think Pomona would be a better fit. What I respond to them is that as a person, student, and individual you can only grow from people's differences and different points of view. If you're set in a school where all minds think alike, how do you ever accurately get to experience anything different. If you're not challenged to think beyond what you already believe whether it be politics or other issues, do you ever really change?
The post above mine, brought up a similar point with her daughter.</p>

18

<p>^ I always hear people say "this school fits my personality better" but what does that really mean? What kind of personality would thrive at Pomona? What kind of personality would thrive at CMC?</p>

<p>I've heard a lot about CMC doing a great job providing their students with internships and setting them up for jobs after graduation. Does Pomona do something similar? Or does CMC really have an advantage in that regard?</p>

<p>(The rest of this post is the same as in the Pomona thread... so if you check both forums no need to read it twice.)</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses. I have less than a week to decide and I'm still torn between the two! I'll be out there sometime this week to look at the campuses before making a final decision.</p>

<p>This decision would be easier if I knew what I'm going to major in. I have an interest in Economics and Political Science and I could very well end up majoring in one of them. But on the other hand, I would also love an Environmental Analysis major. And I'm not ruling out going to law school, either. </p>

<p>I thought of a couple more questions....</p>

<p>Does one school tend to have a more active student body than the other? Particularily when it comes to world issues (ie. climate change, Darfur, etc). I haven't mentioned this, but I'm also considering Macalester College in St. Paul, MN and they're known for having a very active student body when it comes to world issues.</p>

<p>Also, is it possible for a student to major in something that's only offered at a different Claremont school? For instance, if I decided to go to Pomona could I still major in the Environment, Economics, and Politics major at CMC?</p>

<p>Lastly, the Roberts Environmental Center at CMC seems to be an advantage for someone like myself who is interested in majoring in Enviornmental Analysis. I've heard (and HungryMan also said this) that Pomona is slightly stronger when it comes to environmental analysis. Comments on that?</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your help!</p>

19

<p>My post might be redundant since I was lazy in reading everyone's comments (sorry</p>

<p>On Economics:</p>

<p>(I'm an Economics major at CMC and my girlfriend and future fiance is an economics major at Pomona)</p>

<p>Both CMC and Pomona have an excellent Economics department, but here are the differences and key points:</p>

<ol>
<li>Both schools have a large, sound base in foundational economics - Introductory Economics, Macro-Micro, mainstream economics. Beyond this, they diverge into their two special fields. Once you get to the higher up of the dept, you find CMC specializes in financial economics, currency, trade while Pomona tends to focus on labor economics. I'm not too sure about PO's reputation in the labor economics world, but CMC is very well regarded in the financial economics sphere. They've had their share of glory and path breaking research.</li>
<li>CMC has institutes. While Pomona may match CMC academically, students are more likely to get research opportunities, jobs and interaction with Profs at CMC. I had 3 jobs with 3 different CMC Econ professors at CMC. Why? Because CMC has research institutes: Lowe, Rose, Financial Economics Institute, Salvatori. Without a doubt, on campus jobs with an Econ professor would be much easier to get at CMC than Pomona.
2.1 CMC's Econ faculty publish more. They publish more than Pomona and more than the Liberal Arts Average
2.2. CMC controls their own journal publication. Again, most liberal arts colleges don't have that kind of presence.</li>
<li>Shortage: Both Pomona and CMC are facing a shortage of professors, Pomona moreso. CMC is still doing ok, but Pomona has huge problems. My girlfriend enrolled in a course (Macroeconomics) and it was supposed to be with a senior professor. They faced a shortage, so over winter break, they replaced the guy with a PHD candidate - I **** you not - from Claremont Graduate University to teach. PHD CANDIDATE? FROM CGU? ANd he was terrible by the way. CMC has more money to spend on Econ and they've hired some great new profs. I would be skeptical of Pomona's Econ Department.</li>
<li>CMC gets a lot more speakers. We get a lot of Economists and academics at the Ath and in general. Pomona really lacks in this aspect.</li>
</ol>

<p>Apart from that, you can't go wrong with either.</p>

<p>ON Politically Active:</p>

<ol>
<li>CMC is more politically aware than politically active and Pomona is more politically active than politically aware. We at CMC would have a thousand debates, but most of us would not pickup a torch and our marching shoes to go outside.</li>
<li>Pomona isn't especially politically active/radical protestors like say Pitzer for example. Pomona is as active as any other LAC is. CMC is an exception because of the Econ-Gov specialization.</li>
<li>There is a history: Pomona was very politically active in the 60s and 70s. There were some members of a black student organization that set off a series of bombs over 10 days at CMC demanding a black studies program and quotas for african americans. A black PO student infamously asked 'Do you want your campus burnt down this summer or next summer?' Another PO student is believed to have set a bomb in Story House (now student mail room, then lounge or something like that) because of our ROTC program.</li>
<li>Unofficially, I've been told that the administration enjoys debates and encourages discourse, but dislikes radical protests, marches etc. You can organize any debate and say whatever you want. But if you vandalize, disrupt classes, activity, shout slogans outside an office, they will probably dislike it. Last semester when Pitzer students contaminated the ponds with some chemical that made the water red, the administration lashed back very fiercely.</li>
</ol>