<p>So what would be considered non demonstrated need. In our case we can afford what would be considered what the school feels we can pay. Is non demonstrated need scholarships, grants and merit aid for the part of what we even can pay? Now I get the fact that you would have to be the sort of student that the school very much wants to be given this non demonstrated aid but I had no idea that there would be any.</p>
<p>I am confused as well. If I knew for certain that the only portion I would be responsible for was the EFC, we would proceed with ED. I’m just afraid that isn’t going to be the case, plus I am really concerned about how many loans will be given in the package.</p>
<p>What the school feels you need and what you feel you need are often different amounts.<br>
EFC is a FAFSA term. It is a number used by the federal government (and some states) to determine eligibility for aid. Most schools that meet full need also require the CSS Profile and/ or a different form of their own. This is to gather a more comprehensive picture of the family finances. </p>
<p>Generally speaking the FAFSA EFC should be considered the minimum a family will be expected to pay for college. </p>
<p>A family can withdraw from the ED agreement if the financial aid package is not sufficient, but because they cannot compare financial aid packages with other programs it is difficult to know whether the packages at other programs would have been better or worse.</p>
<p>If you ask some of your questions over on the financial aid forum you will get terrific answers from the knowledgeable posters over there.</p>
<p>They use the term “demonstrated need” to distinguish between what families FEEL we need from what the school determines we should pay. The word “need” is sorely abused here, but that’s just my opinion! Families submit their FAFSA and in the case of many private universities their CSS Profiles and each university’s FA office comes up with the $$ amount they call “need.” This will vary, sometimes significantly, by the way different schools calculate this number. Everything outside of “need” will be the EFC, what the parents must pay. But the need-based aid may be divvied up however each institution wishes. </p>
<p>For example, let’s say school X has a total cost of attendance (COA) of $60,000/year. Using your info and their own secret formula (yes, like McDonald’s) they decide your family “needs” $25,000 and the remainder ($35,000) must come from the family’s savings, earnings, beggings, private loans, whatever. Now if this school meets 100% of demonstrated need ($25,000) they are the ones to determine how that is meted out. Perhaps $10,000 in student loans, + $1500 in work-study (student must get a campus job), + $13,500 in a university need-based scholarship (grant). In this scenario, the school has met 100% of “demonstrated need,” BUT this translates to only $13,500 of the total $60,000 in free grant money. </p>
<p>Compare that to another university that may a) determine this student’s “need” to be $37,000, b) distribute this need in mostly grant aid–say $32,000, and c) reduces the loans so debt is much more manageable. </p>
<p>Lastly, for families who do not look good on paper for receiving any need-based aid, the only option is for your S/D to apply to schools that offer merit aid. This is free $$ that goes to students based on talent, essays, personal interviews, and often GPA and test scores. Many schools do not offer merit awards (none of the ivies do, for instance) and those that do have varying deadlines for applications and often separate supplements, extra auditions, etc. In the end, the top merit awards only go to a handful of students.</p>
<p>If any or all of this is critical to helping send your student through college, ED is a very high risk proposition.</p>
<p>Maddog put it very well. Just as an example, I have 3 kids in college this year. Two have the same FAFSA EFC, one has a different EFC (because of money she earned, saved in her name.) The colleges they attend do not guarantee meeting full need-- their awards are all over the place. </p>
<p>In the literally dozens of financial aid packets my 4 kids have received over the years, the distribution of aid has shown almost no consistency. In some case “full need met” meant a huge plus loan, a Stafford loan, and workstudy, and only a few thousand of grant aid. Other schools met less than full need, but with considerably larger merit scholarships. Keep in mind that merit scholarships are generally guaranteed over four years if the students meets a minimal required GPA, but need-based aid can fluctuate (up or down.) </p>
<p>Even though Ivies don’t give merit aid, they tend to have better endowments and (thanks to their secret formula), are sometimes able to come up with greater need-based aid than “full need” as seen by another college. That’s why I think, if your student is so inclined, it may not hurt to apply to an Ivy, as later in the spring the Ivy’s financial aid offer might be useful in negotiations with a non-Ivy competitive school. Hope this makes sense!</p>
<p>Lol, glassharmonica. I think you may be the first to recognize my true ferocious nature!! (maddog!)</p>
<p>And I second gh’s comments on ivies. Yale, Harvard and Princeton in particular are committed to no-loan financial aid. No loans! I swoon. But the trick is to get admitted.</p>
<p>CMU has a FA calculator on their website. I believe most schools do this now. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.cmu.edu/admission/forms/fin_aid/[/url]”>https://www.cmu.edu/admission/forms/fin_aid/</a></p>
<p>shacherry, to answer your question:</p>
<p>"Do any of you know if NYU and USC are likely to give fin and merit aid to ED kids or hold out with that for the kids who apply later on. "</p>
<p>For USC, there is no early decision, only reg. To be considered for merit scholarships, the application deadline is Dec 1, but there is no binding, single choice or guarantee of early notice of decision. If your student is selected as a finalist in one of USC’s top scholarships, they will be notified at the end of January and invited to an interview. But there are many smaller (1/4 tuition) scholarships that do not require interviews. So in this way, USC admissions is transparent in their announced date for consideration of merit aid. The good news is, you lose nothing by applying by their Dec 1 deadline since it does not bind the student to attending, only lets them into the pool vying for all the merit prizes.</p>
<p>Since all the rest of the applicants (excepting those receiving the top merit scholarships) receive their admissions around the same time, the FinAid distribution is not (to our knowledge) affected by application date. USC is known to be very generous, but of course, they calculate “need” in their own way. FinAid can and does change year to year depending on financial conditions in the family. This is true for every university/college. Having more than one student in college can help get good FinAid in the years they are both (all three) in school, but can change drastically when one graduates. Yikes!</p>
<p>
Sorry, old bean! (Your reply made me spit water all over my keyboard.)</p>
<p>Thanks guys I am no longer confused. A student who can pay the full tuition in some cases can still get aid in the form of scholarships and grants.</p>
<p>Hey all, a couple of notes from my past experience: we did not have the “Plus” loan included in any kids’ packages. They are parent loans, and they were for US to use to cover our parental contribution. We have had to use them for S2. </p>
<p>Re: the financial aid “calculator” somebody mentioned–it’s my understanding from my colleagues in the college counseling office at school that ALL colleges/universities are required to provide this on their websites now. There should be an EFC calculator available for every school.</p>
<p>Re: FA packages, we have seen the full gamut too, and bear in mind that you will get more aid (lower EFC) when you have more offspring in the pipeline–i.e., for my oldest child, we were expected to contribute less because we had two younger sons. When S2 went, our EFC went up and aid went down even though our income/assets were the same, because this time we only had ONE younger child. Alas, my current kid is the last, so we have no more buffer (definitely am not planning to give birth again). </p>
<p>Just a couple of other observations: for each of the older kids, our in-state school ended up being the most expensive (we live in Virginia). My daughter, who had an excellent academic track record, received very similar offers from her top-choice schools, but one (Davidson) had a higher overall cost and required her to work almost twice as many work-study hours per week than Kenyon (which she ultimately chose, though not for that reason). Both schools included the minimum Stafford loan in her package, some work-study, and the rest was grant and scholarship. My S2, whose stats were less than stellar, still received merit aid from several colleges; the school he chose did include work-study in his package, but they have hardly any campus jobs so he has never been able to capitalize on that part of his financial aid package, and that’s been a real problem. (Kenyon’s work-study opportunities were abundant and great resume-starters.) If work-study ends up being part of your child’s package, I would definitely investigate whether that’s a real option at the school or whether jobs are actually hard to come by. </p>
<p>Just more grist for the mill. :/</p>
<p>All great points, Times 3.</p>
<p>And right, shacherry! But the merit scholarships are often tied to special supplements, auditions, interviews, GPA and test scores and often require extra deadlines be met and extra letter of rec and so on. So if you are a full pay family (according to the school), you are wise to have your student look for schools with good merit potention–and to keep track of extra supplements and deadlines to be considered.</p>
<p>Can you all tell I have post traumatic stress over this entire topic since S2’s admissions cycle 2 years ago?</p>
<p>Madbean,</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>^Madbean, I think we all have post traumatic stress from the process. That’s why many of us are on here sharing experiences and trying to help others.</p>
<p>Of course for theatre kids, PTSD means the post dRamatic stress disorder they experience when the last performance of a show is over. :)</p>
<p>^^^In my earlier post I mentioned the “calculator” that’s supposed to be on colleges websites, and I didn’t use the correct term. In case you are searching for it online–look for “net price calculator.” Sorry for any confusion!</p>