CMU for Pre-Med???

Colleges and Universities A-Z Carnegie Mellon University
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<p>I have avery general question for all of you. I was recently in the Pittsburgh area, and decided to make an impulsive visit to CMU. I liked the campus a lot and for some reason just felt at home there.</p>

<p>Suddenly I realized that CMU is a predominantly engineering school. I want to do pre-med, so does it make sense for me to even consider CMU? I have ALWAYS (as in since I was like three years old) wanted to go to JHU, which is obviously a very good school for pre-med, but I really liked CMU's campus...</p>

<p>And also, do you guys think that I could get into CMU?</p>

<p>The stats...</p>

<p>I am entering my senior year at HS in a top notch public high schools in NJ</p>

<p>GPA is about a 4.0 (my school doesn't rank....)</p>

<p>SAT I: 2150 (first time...plan to retake in October)</p>

<p>SAT II's:
Math II C: 790
Physics: 710
Bio: 660 (I know this is weak)
Chem: 660 (Again...this is very weak)</p>

<p>I will have taken 9 AP classes by the time I graduate...
AP Calc AB, AP Stat, AP Spanish, AP US History, AP Art History, AP Chem, AP Bio, AP English I, and AP English II</p>

<p>All of my grades are B+'s and A's (one B in AP English....but I got a sure 5 on the test...the class is notoriously challenging in my HS, but as a result everyone gets a 5)</p>

<ul>
<li>President of Genetic Research Club at my HS (this is not based on a typical popular election, you have to be selected by a board of Rutgers Professors...there is a whole admissions process...only two kids from my school got selected...I was one of them)</li>
<li>Attending Genetic Research summer program at Rutgers this summer (part of the genetics club presidency)</li>
<li>Also visiting a foreign nation this summer</li>
<li>150+ volunteer hours at local hospital</li>
<li>Vice President of Auxilliary at local hospital for past three years (raises money for the hospital by organizing findraisers such as walkathons)</li>
<li>Orchestra from age 8</li>
<li>Private lessons for past five years</li>
<li>All the honors societies (Spanish honors, national honors, Mu Alpha Theta)</li>
<li>Nominated and participated in Natural Helpers Program for the past four years</li>
<li>Me and a group of friends created our own online school newspaper/forum (I'm an admin in there....I don't know if that would count as anything, but it does eat up a LOT of time)
-Very strong reccomendations (a lot of my teachers like me a lot...I can't figure out why...they actually ask me to let them write recommendations for me)</li>
<li>I am a pretty good writer...therefore I will probably have descent essays</li>
</ul>

<p>-Grades went down slightly in my junior year since I broke my foot while playing basketball (Intramurals...not on school team). I was in a cast and on crutches for two months and had a walking brace for another one month. Will colleges take this into consideration?</p>

<p>-GPA has increased every year from a 3.7 in freshman year...I have heard that's a good thing...</p>

<p>Any replies will be appreciated...</p>

2

<p>Anyone willing to reply?</p>

<p>I know that this might be a dumb question, but please reply...</p>

3

<p>I will be starting at CMU's MCS this fall on a pre-med track; many profs and students have said it is EXTREMELY difficult, but I think you'll make it. Plus, your stats are pretty good, but try to boost your GPA and show CMU that you are improving those Bs to As. Good luck :)</p>

4

<p>And CMU's med school placement is exceptional; I believe (I may be a bit off) they have about 80-90% of med school placement every year.</p>

5

<p>Wow...thanks a lot...I completely counted CMU out as a pre-med school...now I will def. apply...thanks again...</p>

6

<p>First off, check out <a href="http://www.studentdoctor.net%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentdoctor.net&lt;/a> for info about medical school stuff. The forums have TONS of information but I recommend lurking for a while and doing a search before posting - a lot of times whatever you're having a question about is a very common question and has been answered several dozen times already.</p>

<p>Now for the premed talk.</p>

<p>One thing I really, really recommend is to think seriously before going to a school "well known" for its premed program. I'm not saying, "Don't go" but realize that there are drawbacks, mostly related to the hyper-competitive, cutthroat nature of some of these programs. Some medical schools also are reluctant to take too many applicants from their own undergraduate school in order to get a more diverse class. For example at Hopkins they tell you on the first day that if you think that attending Hopkins undergrad will improve your chances at Hopkins Med, think again. Placement %'s can also be misleading - premed advisors may block applicants from applying to medical school in order to preserve their percentages if they feel that an applicant does not have a good chance of getting in. Definitely talk to current premeds at a school to find out the premed advisors' policies. Ask questions such as:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Does the premed office support every applicant, or will they discourage or even refuse to write a committee letter of recommendation for applicants they don't like? (A committee letter is a highly recommended component of a medical school application - it summarizes all of your letters of recommendation and is basically a letter of recommendation from your school. If your school has one and refuses to write one for you, it's a very, very bad sign to medical admissions committees.)</p></li>
<li><p>Does the premed office often encourage people to give up medicine in favor of a related health profession? (This is a common tactic by premed advisors to get people to not apply and thus preserve their placement %.)</p></li>
<li><p>How long has the premed advisor been at the school? (Sometimes a new premed advisor will have absolutely no clue about the entire medical school admissions process.)</p></li>
<li><p>Does the premed advisor ever write in the committee letter that an applicant is "not recommended", or do they just differentiate by saying "highly recommended" versus just "recommended"? (This might be harder to find out. While just "recommended" is not good, "not recommended" is infinitely worse.)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Now to CMU specific information:</p>

<p>CMU has a FANTASTIC health professions advisor - Dr. Amy Burkert. Talking with students from other schools, I can't believe how lucky I was to have such a great advisor. She gives the absolute best advice to every single person in the program, no matter who you are or how well or badly you're doing. She lets you know up front that she will support your decision to apply whatever your circumstances, but will not lie to you about your chances. But if she tells you your chances are low, she will also tell you exactly what you need to do to improve them. This stands in contrast to stories I've heard from friends at other schools, whose premed advisors will tell them that even though they have a 3.5 GPA and 28 MCAT (average stats) that they should start thinking of other careers. Or advisors who refuse to write them a committee letter of recommendation, or who will not explicitly refuse but will delay the committee interview until very late in the cycle, hoping perhaps to discourage someone from applying that year.</p>

<p>I never once heard CMU's placement %, and I don't care what it is. All that matters is that the entire faculty is spectacular and knows how to get you into medical school. I personally switched majors from computer science to cognitive science/premed after my senior year, at which point I had a 2.35 GPA. At another school, I probably would have been told that I had no chance and to look for another profession. Not at CMU - Dr. Burkert told me that my GPA was very low for medical schools but also told me exactly what I had to do in order to improve my chances. I did basically exactly what she told me to do and I am now holding an acceptance to SUNY Buffalo as well as waitlist spots at Pitt and Case Western.</p>

<p>Also, CMU's premed program is not hyper-competitive. I mean that in the good sense: it's clear that the students are brilliant but there is just not that competitive atmosphere that you find at other schools. Nobody will sabotage you, nobody will loudly brag in class about how they didn't study at all but aced an exam, etc. Most of the time I couldn't even tell who was a premed student and who wasn't - this is a very good sign. I think this is mostly because there aren't all that many premed students at CMU - most people are there in order to go on to do research, not medicine/dentistry/etc.. This is a very good thing - it helps establish a less competitive atmosphere when you're not taking classes with a bunch of people who perceive you to be a threat to their chances of getting into medical schools. This is also due partially to the fact that there is no grading on a curve. If you get a 90% (or 89%, or whatever) you get an A, no matter how many other people have gotten 90%+. This way, people worry less about how you're doing and just focus on doing well themselves. And they won't mind helping you out either - it's no skin off their backs if someone else gets an A.</p>

<p>I'm not going to lie - classes at CMU are very difficult, and it IS difficult to earn A's. But medical schools are very aware of this, and if you do well you will be complimented in interviews about earning good grades from such a tough school.</p>

<p>I can't thank Dr. Burkert and the rest of the CMU Health Professions office enough. I highly, highly recommend that you consider CMU for your undergrad premed experience.</p>

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<p>WOW....Kazema....thanks a lot...I know that you must have spent a long time typing up all of that info...I really appreciate it. </p>

<p>I never realized the drawbacks of "well - know" pre-med programs until you discussed them...thanks for informing me about that website as well (I'm checking it out right now)...</p>

<p>You seem to know A LOT about pre-med and CMU so do you think there is a chance that I could get in? I know that the whole "chances" topic is very unreliable...but do you think I could get into CMU without applying ED (my stats are in my first post in this thread)? Don't be afriad to say no...you won't hurt my feelings.</p>

<p>BTW: What did you major in? Bio?</p>

<p>The reason I ask is because I have heard a lot of people say that it is better to major in something science - related, but "different." A lot of people have been telling me to consider chemical engineering...do you think this is a good idea? Or do you think that the whole engineering aspect would bea a waste of time and effort?</p>

8

<p>Kazema, your advice was excellent, it really assured me for this fall. I'm glad to know the person sitting next to me isn't planning to sabotage my grades :) (ahem JHU...) </p>

<p>Thanks a lot, and I'll definitely check out the site you gave.
-Angel</p>

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<p>I can't really say much about the admissions side of things, I was admitted as a computer science student 7 years ago. I'm sure that admissions criteria has changed between now and then, and that the criteria for admitting a premed is different from admitting a CS. I think my SAT II science scores were around what you got, but then again getting in as a premed might require higher scores, I really don't know. I don't know much about the new SAT I so I don't even know what a 2150 means as far as admissions go. I'm totally the wrong person to ask about getting into CMU; I don't even know if you have to mark down that you're applying for the Health Professions Program when you apply to CMU because I switched into it. But to my admittedly untrained eye you seem like a good applicant ;).</p>

<p>I ended up majoring in cognitive science (after switching out of computer science), which is basically psychology with elements of computer science and biology. Chemical engineering at CMU is very, very tough - all of the engineering majors at CMU are. That doesn't mean you should stay away from them - if you're interested definitely try it. I really think you should just major in whatever subject interests you; if that's biology then do biology, but don't do biology (or ChemE) just because you think it'll give you an edge in admissions. Majoring in a subject you enjoy will also make getting good grades easier because you'll actually want to learn about it. So if you're interested in ChemE go for it, but if not, stick with bio (if that's what you're most interested in). Lots of non-bio and non-engineering majors get admitted all over the place every year - I know a Latin major who went to Hopkins Med, a CS major who's going to Pitt, and a political science major headed to Buffalo, just to name a few.</p>

<p>One final piece of advice: professors at CMU are generally very helpful. Don't hesitate at all to ask for help if you're not doing well in a class, or even to stop by their office just to chat. They truly want to see you do well, and love it when a student takes an interest in what they do.</p>

<p>Good luck to you both :).</p>

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<p>Simplefallout...have you decided on a major yet? And also, if you don't mind, can you give me and idea of your stats that got you into CMU?</p>

<p>(I just want to have some sort of an idea...)</p>

11

<p>Kazema...I believe everything you say since you've obviously gone through the whole pre-med saga already, but if you major in something like Latin or Comp Sci how do you do well on the MCATs??</p>

<p>In case you can't tell, I'm quite a noob in the realm of pre-med, MCATs and Med school stuff...so please enlighten me...</p>

<p>Also, according to the stats on the CMU website (I was checking it out yesterday), getting into the School of Computer Science (SCS) is A LOT harder than getting into the Mellon College of Science (MCS). For the 03-04 year, 1872 people applied to SCS and only 393 applicants were accepted. That means barely 20% of applicants were accepted to the SCS. On the other hand, 2499 people applied to MCS and 1318 applicants were accepted. Thats over 52%! I know this is nothing to get excited about since obviously most people who apply to CMU will have very competitive stats..anyway I just found it to be very interesting. If you want to verify this info I found it at: <a href="http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/know/facts.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/know/facts.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>BTW...you stay up pretty late...lol...</p>

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<p>no problem. I want to major in bio/psych and fulfill my pre-med requirements. </p>

<p>stats: SAT- 600M, 670V
SATII- 610IC, 630W, 540Chem
GPA- 4.4/5.3
ECs- about 10 dedicated clubs, lots of volunteer hours.</p>

13

<p>You had a 5.3 GPA?!?!</p>

<p>If thats on a 4.0 scale...that is AMAZZINGLY INSANELY GOOD...</p>

<p>And ten clubs, thats impressive too...</p>

<p>Did you apply ED or RD?</p>

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<p>no no no lol I wish. 5.3 was the highest a student could get @ my hs. I had a 4.4GPA :)</p>

<p>I applied RD, then got waitlisted, then got in from there.</p>

15

<p>Ohhhhhh...lol...I get it...that was pretty dumb of me...</p>

<p>Thats still pretty good though....</p>

<p>You got in from the waitlist? Thats pretty cool...I always thought that waitlists were useless....I guess I was wrong (again)...lol...</p>

<p>What are your feelings about the cost? I have read a lot of reviews that say CMU is overpriced. Do they give out a lot of aid?
(I won't qualify for need-based aid...so anything besides that...)</p>

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<p>it's okay :)</p>

<p>yes cmu accepts a lot of people from the waitlist every year, I think maybe even near 50% of them, so you'd have a huge chance if you ever were WL. </p>

<p>I think the cost is WAYY too high, but I think most people are just disgruntled about the $40+grand a year deal haha. IMO, they don't really give out enough aid, but then again their endowment is only $756 million compared to the billions that some Ivies have. You might qualify for a few of their scholarships, grants, and they have loans that you can apply for when the time comes. CMU didn't exactly match my EFC, but they were only 2 grand off, which I felt was okay (compared to NYU who was about 10 grand off lol). </p>

<p>Good luck to you :)</p>

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<p>The MCAT doesn't really require much upper-level science knowledge. Taking the prereqs is enough for most people; the rest they can fill with MCAT-specific prep. The only section you might need extra info for is the Bio Sciences section, and even in that section Physiology is probably more than enough (Genetics and Biochem can be useful if you have room for them, but not necessary). I only took the prereqs + Physiology and Biochem and did fine. The MCAT is knowledge-based but it's also skill-based as well; it tests how well you can use a fundamental understanding of a subject and apply it to more specific situations, and how well you can extract information from passages.</p>

<p>This page breaks down MCAT scores by major:
<a href="http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgpabymaj1.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgpabymaj1.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So basically as long as you take the science prereqs (and maybe one or two extra biology classes) you'll be fine for the MCAT as long as you also study specifically for the MCAT. Really you don't need to worry about the MCAT until it's time to start preparing for it (most people start studying 2-4 months before taking it).</p>

<p>And don't believe EVERYTHING I say ;). I could be wrong about this stuff, I'm just passing along my experiences and opinions.</p>

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<p>Simplefallout...speaking of NYU, my guidance counselor hates it with a passion; he says it is way overrated. He calims that it is rising too fast...I might be applying there, but I'm not sure as of yet.</p>

<p>The reason I ask about the cost of CMU is because if they gave like no aid it would be really tough to pay for all of it without taking out huge loans, which I don't really want to do. I will probably eventually end up having to take loans to go to med school...so why start now? lol...</p>

<p>Did you visit CMU before you got accepted?</p>

<p>The reason I ask is because one day when I was in Pitt. I just drove over to CMU and gave myself a self-guided tour...lol...IOW I just walked around the whole campus and into random buildings...lol...</p>

<p>Anyway..should i take a normal guided tour to show that I am interested? Or does this really not affect your chances...</p>

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<p>Kazema, based on what you are saying the MCAT actually measures how intelligent you are. Thats a welcome change from the SAT, which is a bunch of BS...I hate that test with a passion...don't even let me get started about it...</p>

<p>Another question I have for you is what do you think about those 7yr accelerated med programs and those 8yr ones where you don't have to take the MCAT? I know Tufts and Boston College have 8yr programs, and Rutgers has a 7yr program in partnership with UMDNJ. I know that all of these programs are super competitive, but what's your take on them? By doing the seven year program do you not learn everything completely since you move so rapidly? Do you miss out on something by not taking the MCAT? (lol...the last question is kind of dumb...)</p>

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<p>No, the MCAT is even less an intelligence test than the SAT. Though you don't need a lot of high-level science knowledge, you must know the fundamental stuff COLD. It's only after you know the fundamental knowledge that the applying of that knowledge kicks in. That's why people have to study for MONTHS for the MCAT. I think I spent only a couple weeks prepping for the SAT, whereas I spent 4 months of 20 hours a week devoted solely to prepping for the MCAT</p>

<p>I don't know much about the accelerated programs because I never applied nor really researched them. I've heard good things about the University of Rochester's program though - it's a guaranteed matriculation program (as long as you maintain a certain GPA of course) that allows you to pursue other interests over 4 years of undergraduate study and even allows a 5th undergraduate year if you choose, before you start medical school. It also lets you apply to other programs, though in that case you'd of course have to take the MCAT. My suggestion is to choose a program that lets you apply outside - you might decide further along that you'd rather go to another school or to go for an MD/PhD. That way you get the best of both worlds: a guaranteed acceptance and the freedom to leave if you want without jeopardizing your acceptance.</p>

<p>The MCAT is just a test, it's not some valuable life experience or anything like that.</p>