CMU--not performing until junior year

<p>@jbeansmom‌, Unless something has changed, there are no studio productions in the MT studio at Tisch until sophomore year. Freshman cannot audition for Stageworks (mainstage) either. Trust me though that both of these things are blessings because first year students are really busy adjusting to college and most importantly, life in the big city.</p>

<p>Meaningful paying work found outside of school happens and almost always requires leaving studio. My daughter wrestled with that for this semester but couldn’t bring herself to miss the studio training so she gave up her opportunity. (Not that she doesn’t sometimes regret it and wonder if it was the right call.)</p>

<p>Yeah, I don’t think there are studio productions that freshmen can audition for. All that said, in my D’s freshman year, she was still performing in some capacity. For example, they perform a lot in class. As well, she was a keyboard player for a student run musical production. She was in a coed a cappella group that performed in many concerts, as well as competitions. She worked some weekends performing in birthday parties for kids. Also, we are talking just nine months of the year. She performed in various shows the summer before freshman year and in the summer after freshman year. </p>

<p>In my experience, applicants tend to have trouble fathoming the notion of not being in shows freshman year (and if they are like my kid, they were constantly in shows before entering college). But once they are IN college, they totally get the idea about no freshmen auditioning for shows. The year is jam packed and they also have required crew work on shows. It all makes sense to them THEN even if not before they got there! Tell your daughter what the kids think once they have been there, done that! As I think I may have already posted, when my D was cast as a lead in a MainStage show as a junior, she remarked to us that she then was so glad about the no freshmen in shows rule, because she did not think she would have had enough training to tackle the role that she now had had (and she had lots of training before college, but it is not the same as college level training). It just is hard for applicants to realize this from the position they are in at present. </p>

<p>As far as professional work, there are the summers when they can do that (and my kid and lots of others did that). My kid wasn’t at all concerned about the professional work issue because she wanted to stay in school all four years. She had some friends who did professional work and took a leave and returned to finish their degrees, or some who never returned. My D chose not to audition for professional work that could take her out of school. </p>

<p>That said, in her sophomore year, she did a professional job in the fall semester, but it did not take her out of school. The rehearsals and performances were nights and weekends. She could not be in a school show that semester though. She was the musical director for a professional world premiere piece written and directed by a Tony nominated director/playwright/composer, who happened to also be one of her college teachers. It was an excellent opportunity she could not pass up, while not having to give up school, and just gave up a chance to be in any school shows that semester.</p>

<p>My D and I actually like the idea of freshmen not performing or not performing much. It’s not performing until junior year that is the hang-up for her. </p>

<p>Not performing in a mainstage show is not the same thing as not performing, either. And, there are summers. And, CMU only takes five girls so I wouldn’t really worry too much about this problem until you actually have this problem. It’s a pretty good problem to have, imho.</p>

<p>I was just hoping to get feedback from people who attend or know people who have so that it can help my D decide whether or not she really wants to not “play the lotto” with this school. I’d hate to see her not even take a chance on a great program that otherwise seems to be a good fit in terms of what she wants in a program, but I also don’t want to encourage her to put it on her list if this is sometimes a real issue, as it seems there are only so many auditions, essays, and application fees one can sanely handle. </p>

<p>My Two cents - there is NO denying that CMU has a fantastic, successful program, they clearly know what they are doing. I remember people asking about this subject at both our campus visit and audition day, and current students were full of information. They said they had missed being IN shows (they had been on crews), but that they were amazed how much they had grown and changed when “their” time came around. And of course they had been performing every day of those two years, but only their classmates and their teachers had seen them. </p>

<p>As said above- it’s a total lottery, the odds are minuscule, but you have to have a ticket to win. I would say if it seems like what you kid would want in a program, audition. Talk to them when you audition - get feedback from people who are there. If you are accepted, make the choice then, because I am guessing (though the variables here are ENORMOUS and you never can tell) that if you D gets accepted to CMU, she will probably have more than one BFA offer, and you can compare then. That was where the rubber really hit the road for me and MY D, once she had all her acceptances ( BFAs, and BAs as well) we could really look at the nitty gritty and figure out what program came closest to her “ideal vision”. </p>

<p>CMU is a great program and anyone fortunate enough to be accepted is very lucky indeed. Their training has proven itself successful, so its hard to argue that not performing until junior year puts its students at a disadvantage. Having said that, it is not the school for everyone. We know 2 people in recent years who have turned them down, one in favor of Harvard, one went to Texas State. They are both bery happy with their choices. So although it is undeniably a fabulous program for some, don’t worry if for whatever reason you feel it’s not the best place for your D. There are many great programs and you will find the right one with a lot of hard work and determination. Good luck!
P.s. I will say the CMU audition was one of D’s favorites. They put her very much at easy and gave her great notes on her songs and monologues. So for that reason alone, it could be an audition to consider.</p>

<p>on the opposite spectrum that was one of my D’s least favorite auditions. It didn’t go badly or anything like that my D realized after the talk by Barbara and the mainstage show we saw along with the behavior of many of the students at the perfomance it was not the place for her. Not that she would have won the lottery but after that being her “dream school” and wishing for the lottery she decided it didn’t matter after that day. My D really evolved during the January and February auditions and knew more of what she was looking for and what she wasn’t and the kind of training that would fit her.</p>

<p>Just as a side note we also saw a student directed show that night that was really good and it actully salvaged our evening. So if thats where you get to perform for the majority of your time at CMU then that is not bad</p>

<p>Our D auditioned for CMU at Unifieds in Chicago - so we did not get the benefit of seeing a production on campus. We did visit, and the students we met were great. But it was during the summer so I’m sure we didn’t get the full picture. I was referring only to the actual audition itself. Everyone D worked with could not have been nicer. But seeing kids in the program on campus would have been interesting to see too.</p>

<p>I can’t believe how interesting this thread is to me because 1. My kids is not at CMU and didn’t apply there and 2. the until junior year no shows thing seems like such a non starter to me as a deal breaker. </p>

<p>CMU’s program is hot. It’s like the equivalent of seeking out the hot ivy school when you apply academically to colleges. What the heck? Do it if you like the school(s). </p>

<p>Ivy schools undoubtedly do plenty to deserve their reputation as does CMU when it comes to MT. So chase CMU anyway if you want to. Why wouldn’t you? They take somebody and why not you if you think you have the right stuff? “Nike. just do it” If you don’t get in (and you actually are really good), it has NOTHING to do with whether you were better or worse at MT than the next guy/gal. If that’s how you measure your potential, you may need to rethink the field which will be filled with much more hurtful land mines than not getting into an MT program that only takes less than a baker’s dozen of kids every year.</p>

<p>My daughter didn’t apply to CMU because when she visited it (junior year), she decided their program was too small for what she wanted in a college experience never mind an MT experience. Would she have gotten in if she had decided to apply? Betting… no. What… 6 girls? Who the heck would ever bet on “yes” with those odds and knowing how many apply. Would she have felt out of place there had she applied and won the lottery to get in? Of course she wouldn’t. She’s as good as any who are there. Come on people! Own what you know. It’s a college program that is small. They take a small number and I’m sure VERY reluctantly turn away a huge number that they know full well they could easily swap out for any of the kids they said yes to. I have the utmost confidence that the “theatre gods” who teach at CMU are as unsure about who they bring in as they are about who they don’t. </p>

<p>No shows until Junior year? Come on. With summers and student productions, I don’t get how this is a deal breaker. If you think in terms of training benefits of that sort of policy at the extreme, you have so many kids that have done nothing but show after show after show prior to CMU and trained little. A forced show hiatus could be the best thing that will happen to them. I’ve seen examples where the alternative was a child star who finishes high school having done roles that required being cute with a huge an unexpected belt which for now is the thing. Nice to have both of those before 18. Then comes college and you discover a foundation of actors not cast and competing with you before because they couldn’t do what you did, or were instead busy with other things both academic and EC-wise. Who are these people? Surprise… they are the people you never before counted on that are at the same post-graduation auditions.</p>

<p>Yeah… the junior year thing at CMU feels pretty reasonable and practical to me. Thumbs up. </p>

<p>@halflokum - wise and well said =D> </p>

<p>I agree with everything halklokum posted in post #50. For the record, my D did apply to CMU. In her year, CMU only accepted 3 or 4 girls for MT. Yikes. Afterwards, I questioned the wisdom of the money spent to travel there with those odds, but it just is the way it is. Actually, she got Priority Waitlisted for Acting. I saw that as an affirmation of her acting, considering she barely had any acting training prior to college (we lived in a rural area and there just wasn’t any, nor at our high school). </p>

<p>Anyhow, when I look back on my D’s experiences in her BFA program (Tisch), what stands out in terms of her learning is not really so much being in shows. While she performed in various capacities in college, come to think of it, she only performed in 4 musicals ((not counting summers). Only one was a MainStage show, and I do think she got something out of that particular show as she was a lead and it was particularly challenging given the subject matter and the nudity and taking risks. But otherwise, I think my D learned so much more in college outside of being in shows. After all, she had been in lotsa shows before college. I’m not discounting the importance of performing, let alone the sheer passion for it, but I still think many highlights of her learning experience were outside of being in a musical, while in college. </p>

<p>Some examples that come to mind…the training itself! She had very little acting training going into college and so valued and learned a lot in that respect in the four years of acting classes. In fact, after five semesters, she switched from the MT studio (CAP21) to ETW, in part, to focus more on acting. As well, I think her voice improved a lot, including in range. While the dance training was very good, she had plenty of that before college and so really learned more from newer experiences. I think she learned a great deal musically directing a student run production of Into the Woods and found that quite challenging (particularly learning to play the music well enough on piano). She also musically directed and arranged a professional world premiere and this was right after her18th birthday and this was really a stepping stone in her sophomore year. There was a course she took in writing adaptations and she wrote a little one for class and it was surely a stepping stone in her career (and she met her current longtime BF in that class, LOL). I think she learned (and enjoyed!!) the four years in a cappella, not only for the friendships and collaboration that continue to this day five years out of college, but as musical director, she learned to write arrangements that I am sure have been building blocks to her current career, plus all the harmonizing! In ETW, she did a workshop (had to audition for) that resulted in a show, with Moises Kaufman, and this was a great experience in creating original material with others. I would say a huge learning experience and one reason she closed out her college career in ETW studio, was the opportunity to write, compose and perform in her own original musical, her first. She learned a great deal from that and honestly, that musical went onto professional incarnations and opportunities and led to a whole lot else, including representation in that realm. And of course, there is all the coursework both in theater and liberal arts that enriched her mind. Then, there is the huge amount of networking with peers and teachers and others met during the college years that continue to this day. There is a lot more I am not mentioning, but simply trying to say that the highlights of my D’s learning in college are mostly not from being in shows. Of course she loves being in shows. She was in lots of shows before college and since graduating college. She was in a few in college, but performed in other ways besides being an actor in formal musicals too. Some of this other stuff expanded her skill set and experiences in ways that being an actor in yet another musical may not have. </p>

<p>Just to bring this back to CMU for a moment, look at their Playground (and freshmen and sophomores can be in that)…where they create and perform in original work. Invaluable. Then, look at the great success that Pigpen Theater is having. All the guys in it (I’ve met many and my D is good friends with them) were students at CMU and started their theater company at CMU and I think it came out of Playground. They just had great reviews in NYC. Some of these experiences, such as Playground at CMU, or what my D got to do at ETW at Tisch, are not necessarily things that some of these MT applicants are thinking about before they get to college, and yet, they embrace and learn so much by exploring these new experiences (not just being in another established musical) that may lead to professional experiences once they graduate. I really think applicants are not as aware of all the varied experiences one can have in college beyond being in MainStage shows and how some of these experiences may shape them and even lead to professional success. Hard to understand that as a high school applicant, I think.</p>

<p>I think that many high school students are not familiar enough with what they’ll be doing in a BFA program to make an accurate determination that not being able to perform in shows for the first year or two should be a dealbreaker. Most will not have been in the type of training that exists in a BFA program. As others have said, there is an abundance of actual performing in class and other opportunities, including summers. The chance to be on a large stage in front of an audience should not, in my opinion, be of such primary importance at this stage where training and education should be paramount. This is no longer high school, this is training for your future career. In my opinion, if a student is accepted at CMU and decides not to attend based solely on the rule about when performances begin, is making a very unwise decision.</p>

<p>I will pop in here and say what is usually said – it is all about fit – CMU may be very competitive and well regarded but if it is not a fit for your kid, it doesn’t matter how great its reputation. Just food for thought.</p>

<p>I was just reading some information about Julliard (while not specifically MT - certainly the conservatory of conservatories) students are not eligible for mainstage until their SENIOR year - everything before that is class based and small venue. Again- this is a school with a track record of success…and a line out the door of people who want to study there…</p>

<p>I just happened to catch a recorded NPR interview with Victoria Bussert and a few cast members from “Les Miserables” (currently running in Cleveland at The Great Lakes Theater). Keri Rene Fuller (Eponine) talked a bit about her experience with the program at Baldwin Wallace, and how much she has grown through all of the performance opportunities she has been given throughout her 4 years (she has been performing since freshman year). Training obviously comes in a classroom (studio) and on the stage. I find it very hard to accept that one program’s approach is superior to another; merely different. </p>

<p>@artskids - I would love to hear that interview - I wonder if it is online anywhere? (My D is a freshman at BW - and already cast in her first mainstage… She’s excited and terrified all at once. Show goes up in 2.5 weeks!) And to bring this to topic - she definitely did not weigh when she could be cast in shows in making her decision. She would have selected the program at BW whether she was eligible for casting early or not - it was simply not a factor for her. She was much more interested in the curriculum, training and environment for growth. She will tell you that for HER she is in the right place. Being cast in a show first week of her freshman year has made her schedule quite intense. She’s thriving - but has said more than once “I can see why some programs don’t cast freshman first semester” (I think that’s code for “I’m tired!”)</p>

<p>I found it! www(dot).ideastream(dot)org/applause/entry/65180</p>

<p>You’ll have to replace the (dot) with actual dots if anyone else is interested.</p>