<p>HELP!! I’m having such a difficult time deciding which of these is my first choice and I don’t have much time, please help me compare!</p>
<p>I’m a voice major at a performing arts highschool. I’m not sure if I am aiming for the Met or Broadway yet. Both schools seem great for me I just wish I knew more and were able to make a decision…</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>For one thing, you don't need to make a decision. Apply Regular Decision and then the decision will be made FOR you and if you get into both, it will be next April and you will know more to decide. CMU does not have ED for the BFA program, only NYU does. </p>
<p>I'll comment a bit here....for one thing, the odds of getting into these programs are very difficult ones and so I'm not sure you need to worry about which is a first choice at this point because it is best not to pine away for just one school when it is so slim to even get in. CMU auditioned 1200 kids for 9 MT and 18 Acting slots last year (and no extras due to yield, but do go to a waitlist if people do not take the offer). Are you a girl? The odds are harder at all the programs for a girl. But last year, at CMU, they took 6 boys and 3 girls. So, even if you are the most talented kid on the planet, these odds are nothing you can count on but you should go for it, of course. NYU has a much bigger class but a very low acceptance rate in the single digits for the BFA in musical theater. Again, can't count on it. With programs of this calibur, you need to apply to many. Naturally everyone has their favorites but it might not be worth it to figure out which is the first choice school until you see what April brings. Very few of these programs have Early Decision but NYU does. I would advise you to apply ED to NYU ONLY IF you are certain you want to go there over everywhere else. But if you wait until April to hear from all schools, you will be able to compare your offers and pros/cons and how they meet your criteria.</p>
<p>You said you wish you knew more to make a decision....the best way to know more is to go visit, talk to current students and faculty, get all the written materials, and so on. But you really have no decision that is necessary. You don't have to have a first choice. It is actually better to like many schools when the odds of admission are this selective. IF you are considering applying ED to NYU, make sure you have visited at least one other program that is a favorite in order to make an informed decision to apply early. ED may not be the best route for you. Only do it if you have a CLEAR first choice school. </p>
<p>Good luck. My D loved both those programs. She is about to enter NYU and was waitlisted at CMU. She did not apply ED because she had a couple favorites. She visited them all eventually and then waited to see where she got in and made her choices amongst her acceptances. As I said, the decision is likely to be made for you to some degree. Everyone has favorites but I encourage you to like more than one school. If you are fortunate to be able to pick from several acceptances, then you can go with the favorites. Having one first choice has the potential for setting oneself up for disappointment. Though ED is a possibility if the first choice is far and away a favorite. I can't tell if this is what your decision concerns or not. If you are not looking to apply ED, then no need to have to decide a first choice at this juncture. Again, research every program thoroughly. You will see that very few have ED. Some have rolling or EA. </p>
<p>Good luck....</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I suppose a little more personal info would be useful to advice-givers... I'm a boy. I am interested in several other schools but these two are at the top of my list. I really wanted someone to weigh or at least present the differences in the programs so i can start getting an idea of what to choose in the event that i am accepted into both schools. And this forum place is the first i've heard of/seen anything about steinhardt...i'm assuming from context clues that this is the classical voice program at tisch? please tell me more about it! also, if anyone has any audition song suggestions they would be greatly appreciated! -thanks.</p>
<p>You say these two are at the top of your list. Can you articulate why? Is it in name or prestige only? What attracted YOU to these specific programs? You are asking what are the differences in these programs....do you know any yourself? What you need to do is research each one thoroughly....read their websites and materials. List what you see as pros or cons or strengths or appeals of each program. That will begin to make the differences clearer. I know that was the first thing my kid did in January of the year before she applied. It was a FIRST step. Then when visiting a program, you will be able to see for yourself which meets your criteria and interests in a program the best. We can't research this for you. If you have SPECIFIC questions about a PARTICULAR program, this is a great place to ask it. But first, you must research each program thoroughly on your own in order to come up with these specific questions. For instance, you should be able to know that the size of these two programs is radically different. By the way, Steinhardt is not AT Tisch, but is a separate school at NYU, the music school. Tisch is a drama school. Steinhardt also offers musical theater but is more centered on music. Read about each program on NYU's websites and link to those two schools, Tisch and Steinhardt and you will have a background and then perhaps you can ask something specific and someone here might know the answer. Visiting is the key to figuring out which you like best. Again, right now this research needs to be your focus, not deciding which you would choose if accepted to both. Time will help you figure that out, but honestly the outcome of the admissions process will possibly decide it anyway. </p>
<p>Nobody can suggest audition songs for you without knowing anything about your voice, your strengths, etc. This is something you should work on with your voice teacher. What is best for one person is not best for another. We can't hear you sing or see you act a song to know what your forte is. If you have a much more SPECIFIC question about some song choices you are considering and why, perhaps someone can advise you.</p>
<p>The question of what to sing or what school should be your first choice are very general questions. Perhaps if you could tell us what you want in a BFA program and then what attracted you specifically to NYU and CMU (besides their names), we can discuss which might fit what you want better. In my opinion, at this juncture in your process, it is just important to learn as much as you can about each program, be open to various possibilities (as you might not be given much choices considering the odds of admission at these selective programs), come up with some favorites if given a choice, and then see what happens. Once you audition and visit, you'll know which you prefer. Focus on the application process and prepare for the auditions. You can pick where you will attend and think much more about that after auditions are over and you are in the waiting process. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>My d applied ED to NYU, and if I (not she!) had to do it over again, I would have made her audition for all the other 9 schools on her list so we could compare financial aid packages. She did get some aid at NYU, but I can't help but wonder if it was limited due to her being ED. So that's something to consider. She is also planning on a double major at NYU; not sure if you can do that at CM.</p>
<p>Location NYC vs. Pittsburgh. Nuff said.</p>
<p>Working Grads Lots from both but Tisch is MUCH bigger and CMU probably has a higher percentage.</p>
<p>Faculty Tisch has more impressive performance resumes partly because they are in NYC while CMU has more professional teachers with less real world experience.</p>
<p>Studios At Tisch you get different kids in your classes every term and you get the option to change studios while at CMU it is the same kids all the time for four years. </p>
<p>Financial Aid CMU kicks NYU in the Tischie.</p>
<p>Overall education You can double major at Tisch while you take no other classes and do NOTHING but MT at CMU because they already consider it a double major. The acting majors only get one class that is not theatre each term.</p>
<p>Reputation Top at both but I have heard some pros joke that Tisch babysits lots of rich kids. This might come from it being so big that there might be some slackers that skate by and suck when they get in the real world which is probably where that comes from. CMUs program is so small that it is less likely to happen because there is nowhere to hide. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about the abilities of CMU grads but have heards some psycho diva stories.</p>
<p>"Faculty Tisch has more impressive performance resumes partly because they are in NYC while CMU has more professional teachers with less real world experience."</p>
<p>I've done lots of research on alot of schools - and these 2 in particular - and the above statement just isn't true. Take a look at the faculty bios on CMU's webpage and you'll see that the faculty has had plenty of real-world experience with very impressive resumes. </p>
<p>"Working Grads Lots from both but Tisch is MUCH bigger and CMU probably has a higher percentage."</p>
<p>Another thing that interests me... When you get down to it, both places offer very excellent, top-notch training (I'm looking at PH, Atlantic, and Adler @ Tisch), but there are just SOOO many more Tisch grads in the world that CMU grads! That is somewhat of a turnoff to me - when 200 more Tisch Drama students graduate every year, it's kinda flooding the marketm whereas you're only looking at maybe 30 CMU grads.</p>
<p>One difference that I could have noted earlier was that at CMU, it is almost strictly conservatory with very little in terms of academic classes and at NYU it is also conservatory but there are more liberal arts classes involved in the degree and it is possible to minor or double major in something else. </p>
<p>I can't say whether CMU kicks NYU in the Tischie with regard to financial aid but only have ONE person's experience to share. I'm not even counting all the loans and such but strictly talking scholarships or grants....NYU gave my D $20,000 in scholarship per year and CMU gave a grant as part of the aid package and the grant was $13,000 which is not necessarily a guaranteed constant for all four years. So, that is one person who did not fit the description you gave. </p>
<p>When comparing schools, certain things are facts and certain things are opinions. I think some facts that differ in these two programs are size, curriculum, performance activities, location and some of the rest is hearsay or opinion.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>hayhayden, I have already done that and I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean CMU's faculty weren't impressive. That would be crazy! The Tisch faculty just obviously has more active Broadway experience by nature of being in NY while CMUers have spent more time in regional theatre and have devoted more of their careers to teaching which might not be bad. They definitely get results for their students! :)</p>
<p>soozievt, that is scholarships and is the exception. Congrats by the way! :) How much did Tisch offer you in grants and whatnot? My understanding is that they are notoriously bad with their offers. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong because it is the main reason I'm not going to apply there. CMU also has half scholarships if you can get them.</p>
<p>Tripletreat, the NYU Trustee scholarship is first based on merit/talent and then need plays a factor in the total amount. You asked how much they offered in grants...that IS the grant portion of the financial aid package and then there are loans, JUST like at CMU and at every college she applied to. Each of them gave some in scholarship or grant. Some, like Tisch, Ithaca, Syracuse, Penn State, and Boston Conservatory also had merit or talent scholarships without the need part that she got. Some combined that in the package and some wrote it out separately. In the end, NYU was one of the better packages though some others came close with their scholarship or grant offers. I'd say the biggest scholarships or grants came from NYU, CMU, Syracuse, Emerson, and Ithaca. Boston Conservatory's was still substantial. Penn State's was not nearly as much as the others (still really liked Penn State, however).</p>
<p>Maybe not the right place to post this, but UM also gives some GREAT merit awards based on a combination of audition and application (recommendations, essay, evidence of other artistic endeavors such as writing, etc.). Brent Wagner, the head of the MT Department, actually sent one of my students who was the recipient of a huge (nearly full) scholarship a detailed email pointing out things he has written in his essay, things his recommendations had said, etc., in addition to of course detailing what had stood out about his audition. So take that part of your application seriously (not that anyone who reads here wouldn't)!</p>
<p>Also, it is my experience that if you do get into CMU and the award package they give you isn't substantial enough for you to be able to attend, you can tell whichever faculty person you have been in most contact with and they can often (not always, but often) get that offered increased. They kind of court YOU after you are admitted, especially if you are deciding between them and another school - which is a nice change! </p>
<p>Good luck - money issues are sometimes the hardest part of this whole process!</p>
<p>thanks for great replys...um, about the audition song thing i was really just looking for personal success stories, like what are songs that you all have had luck with...to help anyone who actually would give me some suggestions....I'm a tenor, range is about A/B(below treble staff) to high C (above) for full voice (A3/B3 to C6 for any theory geeks) i love ballads with a dramatic and high climax, i could use some extra help looking for up-tempos since i don't do them very often.. </p>
<p>i didn't mean to give you all the wrong impression that i hadn't done any research, hadn't been to these school's sites, and hadn't planned a campus visit yet.....i'm really not completely inept. it's all just very time consuming and i am wondering about other people's personal opinions about the two programs, what have you found out that i probably have no idea about...i know they're different and it's hard to judge, but i want to go to the best school, give myself the best education and the best shot at making it in the professional world.</p>
<p>now that i know what steinhardt is....is it possible to double major between steinhardt and tisch?? cuz that would be amazing....the best of both worlds kind of thing...i will call admissions and find out if no one knows and then post it here cuz i'm sure others are/would be interested</p>
<p>i really appreciate any help that anyone can give...i'm a performer and it's what i love and want to spend my life doing and the impression has been put upon me that CMU and NYU have the Best programs for what I want, thus is my reasoning in placing the two at the top of my college search list.</p>
<p>also, what is your opinion on applying ED or EA to either of these schools..i don't think CMU has ED but maybe EA.....i know that i can only do that once so is it worth it?</p>
<p>newho, thanks and i hope to get many replys</p>
<p>If you research NYU, you will see that you can only apply to ONE school at that university. Thus, you must decide ahead of time if you are applying to Steinhardt or Tisch. There are discussions on this forum about the differences of those two schools within NYU. Do a search. </p>
<p>If you look up CMU, you will see that for Drama, they do not offer ED or EA. Everyone finds out in March. </p>
<p>While both NYU and CMU are very well regarded programs in terms of prestige, they are not the only ones of that calibur. Usually, CCM and UMich are considered in that category. As well, so many other programs out there are also highly regarded and are excellent and very selective and thus it is about which fits just what you are looking for. For each school, after you research it, list the attributes about it...my D did that and some of the differences became abundantly clear. You will learn more as you talk to current students and visit. You will hopefully like MANY schools because it is so hard to get in that it is wise to fall in love or picture yourself at more than one of these programs. Naturally, you will favor some over others. But rather than look for the "best" program, look for the ones that appeal to specific criteria that YOU have. And remember, no need to figure out which you like best right now because few offer ED and if you do RD, then they are gonna pick YOU before you can pick them. I hope you end up with a choice. We figured of 8 schools, let's hope one comes through. A choice would be nice. Getting several schools, including some favorites was icing on the cake. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>With regard to the songs, rather than find out what others have had success with, why not tell what you have had success with and either use those again or others can suggest songs that are similar to the style of ones that have worked for YOU before. What works for some other guy might not be right for your voice or style. </p>
<p>I think what we are suggesting here is to do the research on the programs...read this website's many threads on these topics and then you will know so much (ie, stuff about Steinhardt and Tisch), that you can come to people here with specific questions regarding them. Also, you need to set up some spreadsheets with info. on each school.....find this information out by reading their brochures and websites thoroughly....that way YOU can find out which offer ED or EA and much else. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Please do a search on "Steinhardt" on the ARCHIVES of CC. Look for the link to the archives at the bottom of the page. Click there and then use the archive search function. Or search under my screen name ("Theatermom") and check posts dated between 10/03 and 2/04. My D applied there (auditioned on an open audition day in November of 2003) and I wrote many posts describing what I learned about the difference between Tisch and Steinhardt, my D's experience auditioning at Steinhardt and my opinion of the relative merits of the two programs. I really can't type it all over again......I just checked the info that is included in the FAQ link for MT and I now find that some of that information is incorrect or incomplete (note to Shauna).</p>
<p>You can only apply to one or the either - the programs are completely separate and NYU only allows you to apply to one or the other. Both offer ED, not EA.</p>
<p>As many have said here and elsewhere, no WAY can anyone, no matter how expert, pick a song for you without hearing and seeing you. A match depends not just on your vocal range (but it's cool that you are a "theory geek" - a great career asset for MT's!) but on your look, energy, acting strengths, etc. (in other words, a combination of your "type" and how much that is developed) Also, to be honest, although those of us who post here are obviously collaborative in nature and all passionate about MT and helping young perfomers, there is no way I (or probably most of us) would reveal a list of really top-notch audition songs, because one of a performer's main quests is always to find the best and LEAST OVERDONE material. So any suggestions you get here would probably be pretty conventional - which may work, but something a little less overdone is USUALLY a better choice. In other words, even the most giving performers carefully guard their very best audition material, especially at your level (because good material can set you apart). Once you get into the professional realm, this becomes somewhat less true, but only because people have by that point really discovered what clicks completely for them, so it doesn't matter if three other people sing it, because each of them "owns it" in a different way. It does hold true profesionally, however, with music that performers have gotten transcribed or acquired specially through other channels, or pieces that the performers may have gotten directly from composers (through doing concerts or readings of new work, etc.)</p>
<p>The best thing you can do is to educate yourself about musical theatre song literatute - composers, shows, etc. - and start classifying what you like. You have done that by pointing to your love of power ballads. A caution - most of us (singers) love this type of song, but they don't fit all of us - so make sure that they really fit you (it sounds like they probably do, but many young performers make the mistake of wanting to be Marius or the Phantom when they are really more Thenardier or Firmin - NOT that I am suggesting using either LES MIZ or PHANTOM as audition material - just making an analogy! :) ) It's just like picking a monologue - if you find a well-known song you like, look at other things that same composer has written - you might find a more "hidden" gem! This is NOT to say you have to do unknown songs - in fact, you often don't want to do a REALLY obscure song, because the college auditors can then pay more attention to you song choice than you (and yes, I DO mean at top schools). But you want to really have songs that fit YOU that everyone else WON'T be doing!</p>
<p>A vocal coach can really help with song selection, and voice teachers can also help sometimes, although some voice teachers know much less about MT rep that classical rep. That is an IMPORTANT distiction - between an MT vocal coach and a voice teacher who is not up on current auditioning trends - which was covered in an earlier thread started by musicman, I think. If you search, you will find it! Also, PM or email me if you want to discuss this further.</p>
<p>Good luck and have fun! And remember - searching for great audition songs is like looking through a huge treasure chest!</p>
<p>ok guys, i have officially confused myself while researching nyu... please correct me because i'm sure i'm wrong, but it would seem that musical theatre at nyu is being offered through voice at steinhardt, drama at tisch, and on it's own as cap21.....i know this can't be right, it seems rediculous, but then again it's really late and i'm really tired so i could just be missing a few key words</p>
<p>back to the audition song thingy...thanks to CoachC for their most informative reply...i totally understand where you're coming from and it helped clarify some others' posts for me.. i don't, at the moment, have a voice coach or teacher, but that will hopefully/probably change within the next week. uhm...here's a few songs that i have been successful with, and i'm sure they are nearing the realm of popularity so i'm not giving away any big secrets.. Gethsemane (I Only Want to Say) - JCSS; One Song Glory - Rent; and This is the Moment - Jekyll & Hyde......sometimes i find it fun to do female "belter" songs that aren't necessarily gender specific because it shows off my high range and ...well it's fun...though i haven't tried any at auditions yet. i really don't have much of an issue with changing character quickly (ie from a depressed pwr ballad to a comedic up-tempo)...i think it'd be neat to find contrasting songs where the more comical one was the ballad and the depressing or dramatic one was the up-tempo (of course that might be confused with comedy) hmm.....sry i'm just babbling a stream-of-conciousness here.</p>
<p>newho, since people have shown concern for my top 2 choice schools being so hard to get into, i want to give my full list here: CMU, NYU, Northwestern, Julliard, U of Cinci, Emerson, Indiana Univ., Yale, Oberlin, UNCG, Eastman, Peabody, Furmon, ASU, CCM, UNC, FSU, UMich, and OCU.....</p>
<p>i welcome opinions, suggestions, etc on both the college search and the aud. song search.....thanks a ton!</p>
<p>Hey hobbit, check out the audition songs/monologues thread - I put some feedback on your song choices there! BTW, singing "girl belter" songs is not a bad idea IF you can create a strong, unique character and acting interp (in other words, not just a masculinzation of the female character). I just heard Tituss Burgess, who was in GOOD VIBRATIONS on Broadway (not a great show, but he WAS great), sing "Someone Like You" from JEKYLL AND HYDE - a completely overdone woman's song, but he ROCKED OUT and it was amaaaaaaazing! Similarly, I have heard a guy sing a beautiful baritone version of "A Quiet Thing" from FLORA, THE RED MENACE. And Megan Hilty, who just graduated from CMU in 2004 and is playing Glinda in the Broadway WICKED, sang "Corner of the Sky" from PIPPIN for her CMU audition - a totally ovedone guys' song, but she showed personality by that choice and even more so by her response when they asked her why she sang it: "I just liked it." (That answer worked for her, because she is fiesty and even a little flippant - but am unstoppable ball of energy onstage.) Don't pick an opposite-gender song just for the sake of doing so - but if you have one that works, you can consider it!</p>
<p>Oh, and whether you sing any song in the context of the show or not, make sure you KNOW the context of the show, because schools sometimes ask to make sure you did your homework or at least have made clear acting choices!</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Hobbit, MT is offered at NYU by both Tisch and Steinhardt. At Tisch, the degree you will receive upon graduation is a BFA in Drama, at Steinhardt it is a BMusic. CAP21 is one of the many Tisch studios. I think it would be helpful if you visited the Tisch website and did some reading as it makes it quite clear there as to how Tisch is set up.</p>
<p><a href="http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/page/home.html%5B/url%5D">http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/page/home.html</a></p>
<p>You may only apply to one college at NYU so would have to decide which one suited your needs best. Tisch is the drama school, Steinhardt the music school so that will tell you something about the difference in focus. :)</p>
<p>I echo others' suggestions that you read through the entire MT thread here on CC. It will answer your questions about every possible question you could have! Many of us have been here for a few years so although one or more of us would probably be able to answer everything, I think it's more worthwhile for the students to do a little of the legwork here themselves then if they still have opinions which they'd like, they can ask them with a base of knowledge already in their brain. :) </p>
<p>I'm assuming that your list is a preliminary list? 17 schools would be an almost impossible number to apply to/audition for, in my opinion. When my D started doing her researching, she probably had a similar number on her 'list', close anyway. She was able to narrow it down initially, though, by doing a curriculum comparison. Then we/she started visiting, contacting current students, and she narrowed it even further. Her final list, if I'm remembering correctly had seven schools on it and she visited all seven, did the tours, attended classes, met with students, had a look at dorms, ate in dining halls, all where possible. It's a long process but it can be fun, and it's always interesting.</p>
<p>I agree that song and monologue choice HAS to be a very personal thing. Think of all the plays you've seen or performed in or read. Chances are that you have a favorite playwright where you can find an appropriate monologue. If not in the play you know, perhaps in something else he/she has written. Choose age appropriate monologues, and be sure to be familiar with the entire play from which they come. As for songs, the three you listed would all be on the 'not recommended' list of those who would normally give advice. Generally speaking, you should find something which you do well and which is a bit obscure. Never do a song from a show which is currently, or has recently been, on Broadway. In addition to that, try to find songs that are not absolutely identifiable with one performer. Work with your song coach, audition coach, drama coach, voice teacher and I'm sure you'll come up with the ones which are perfect for YOU! :)</p>
<p>i'll just share one thing i've read and i think it's on our FAQ page as such. And that is to only do a song that you could actually portray accurately. so, if it is typically a female song, it probably needs to be one that you could actually do in a role. it's been suggested that you not do anything that the judges can't see you doing onstage......i.e. a role that you're too young to play, or a role that requires a certain ethnic look, etc. just a thought. in this audition process, you can't be too careful. you have to stay very safe in choosing songs so that you stay within what your schools are looking for. my d also had one of the profs at ocu tell her this.......pick a song you can do great on your worst day, which is great advice. good luck to you.</p>