CMU or NYU?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Not to add confusion to an already-confusion process (song choice), but there ARE many exceptions to the idea of choosing a song because it's a role you could actually play professionally - see my above example of Megan Hilty. I agree that choosing a song for a role you could play is by far the safest choice - but sometimes you are not a "safe" performer, and THAT is what schools will like about you (as was the case with Megan). And there are auditors who will tell you they loved your risk...just as there are those who will hate that. That's the deal with a risk - it either works beautifully or completely flops, and that MOST OFTEN depends upon the individual audition situation, not so much upon you (in other words, the preferences of those for whom you are auditioning). As I said before, DON'T pick an opposite-gender song or make some other "funky" choice just to be gimmicky - but if you have something that really works for you that is uncoventional, CHECK IT WITH REAL EXPERTS to see if it will work for a specific school - and by that, I mean try to find a student who is currently at that school or who is a recent grad - cause they will give you the REAL scoop about how the auditors will react (which often TOTALLY contradicts what your voice teacher, choir teacher, etc. may say - unless they are knowledgeable about these audition processes). You generally can't ask the faculty or admission people, btw - just in case you were wondering - because they don't have time to answer questions about material for everyone who auditions.</p>

<p>Also, it IS ok to do something from a current show, ESPECIALLY if the vocal selections aren't published yet and you can get ahold of the music somehow. I think what alwaysamom says about this is good general advice in that you will hear a million people singing WICKED, for example, since it's so hot right now and the selections were released last year - so you can stay aware from currently-running and PUBLISHED shows if you want to have the advantage of a bit-more-obscure song that the auditors won't be hearing several times each audition day.</p>

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<p>I want to address several different things that have been mentioned here.</p>

<p>U Michigan has a list on its music school web site of plays / songs to avoid at the audition. Also, this school is incredible and outshines the two you have asked about, in my very humble opinion (based on a combination of things that are important to us). Lastly, while a few people at Michigan get nice scholarships, we have been told that only the very top students they select for the competitive program actually receive scholarships. I believe you should not have much hope for a scholarship there, assuming you were admitted. This topic has also been discussed way in the past on this forum.</p>

<p>Speaking of scholarships, someone above mentioned NYU having a reputation for not giving much money. NYU and CMU are probably the most expensive schools we have considered. I would not rule out any school on the basis of what you think or have heard about money given, because you never know what they will offer you until you audition and try for it. Don't rule out a school based on original sticker price, because the final net price after money offered is what is important. Go for the audition if you like the school otherwise! Wow - wouldn't it be something to be one of the few to get the good Michigan money, for example? Also, we have proof on this forum of people getting good results from NYU.</p>

<p>You inquired about NYU and CAP 21. I know nothing about the Steinhardt side, but theatermom's material will be your best source there. NYU Tisch drama school has many studios, but I believe that CAP 21 is the only one of these that is officially MT. Because of that, it is the only one my son would consider, and you are allowed to only put one choice of studio for the Tisch audition. </p>

<p>I must tell you that soozievt should be listened to very carefully. These schools are extremely difficult to get in - the odds are very low. There is no reason in the world to decide right now what is your favorite. You can have schools you like, and we certainly do, but just keep an open mind about all schools as you go through the audition process.</p>

<p>There are schools all over the country that are gems and that, for us at least, are better options than the 2 being discussed in your question. We have been researching and visiting for 2 years and have seen many schools and many programs. We learned about many of them from this musical theatre forum - thanks to all! Your 2 top schools are on our list, but we have a handful of other schools that would be considered favorites of ours. I've previously shared much of this - no sense repeating.</p>

<p>This thread is actually a repeat of previous lengthy discussion on this forum comparing and contrasting NYU and CMU. Go back to the early part where the forum was one big running discussion - probably to about a year and a half ago or even earlier, and you will find these 2 schools being the main topic of discussion, I believe.</p>

<p>To put in my 2 cents worth on your question (bearing in mind that these schools are neither one in our very top tier of what we like), I would prefer NYU over CMU for the program. They are very different in terms of requirements. It depends on what is important to you. For my son, who will have several credits from AP classes in high school, NYU will count and honor these more than CMU will, because CMU's program doesn't require much at all outside of MT. NYU requires a liberal arts curriculum, and the AP classes would help with those requirements. Then maybe you could graduate early or take more electives in areas of interest!</p>

<p>Now let me contrast and say, in comparing the two, I would choose Pittsburgh over NYC as my college town. This is actually what motivated me to add to this thread to begin with! My son definitely wants to end up in NYC after college, but being there during college is not that important to us. Most college programs keep the kids so busy that there would be little time for doing things outside of school, anyway, except in summer. Plug for Pittsburgh - have you been there to see what a perfect college town area CMU is in? I think it is called Oakland, and we had a blast there. To contrast this with NYU CAP 21 - the CAP 21 studio is, relatively, very far from the Tisch school (a number of blocks) and far from where you would go for other classes on certain days of the week. We would wish that this program could be moved to a college that really has a campus for it to be top choice for us.</p>

<p>Lastly, as I e-mailed you, I would recommend that you visit the Elon thread on this forum since you are in NC. I think another mom in NC said she didn't know before going to the audition with her daughter what wonderful things they are doing at Elon.</p>

<p>Of course, I must also again plug OCU, where I think you would get about the best vocal training anywhere in the US. We are high on that school right now, with my son currently at the summer program (and he is too busy to give me an update!).</p>

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<p>Just so everyone knows, I could sense that Hobbit was overwhelmed, so rather than rewrite here all that I have posted in the past, I looked up and found several posts re Steinhardt vs Tisch and emailed them to Hobbit. I too think that everyone needs to invest in their own research, but I must say I have a soft spot in my heart for those kids who are trying to manage this process on their own, sans parental help. Truly, as many of us know, it can be totally overwhelming. And I also have concerns that the info on this site is starting to get overwhelming - to the point where going back and reading everything from the start could be a life's work!! Searching is really the only way to go and people just have to take the time to refine their searches, which the site search engine does allow and help with. I think we oldtimers can be of most help (apart from taking the time to repeat/rewrite much information that has been provided in the past - I salute you generous souls!!!) in assisting current applicant families to narrow their search options whenever possible. I'll try and continue to do both as time permits. Good luck all!!</p>

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<p>College choices... Hate to be a downer here, but from your "big list" of colleges you are considering - many of them don't have musical theatre majors! You've listed some great schools - and if your goal is music performance, or theatre, fine - but I don't THINK the following have MT programs: Peabody, Oberlin, Juilliard, Yale, UNCG (or the other UNC's), Furman, Eastman.<br>
Indiana doesn't - but you could possibly put your own together under their "individualized major". It's possible there's something new in the pipeline at some of these places, but you'd better double-check.</p>

<p>ASU (assuming you're talking Arizona), is a BM, which would probably more closely align to OCU's program, than your other choices.</p>

<p>Northwestern - no audition into the program until you've been there a year.</p>

<p>Which leaves you with CMU, NYU, UMich, Emerson, FSU, CCM (which is the College Conservatory of Music AT U. Cinci - so one place), and OCU. And - while that may still seem like a huge list - there isn't a one you have listed on here that is not HIGHLY competitive.</p>

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<p>MusThCC - Thanks for sharing this info. Actually, my e-mails with hobbit included giving him this same update - that at many of his schools he would have to choose vocal performance or theatre but not MT. Also, I gave him a list of schools we know of that do not require dance at the auditions. He said he had no formal dance training.</p>

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<p>thanks MusThCC, but actually those are on my list because i am also looking into a vocal performance (classical/opera) program...haven't made my final decisions yet...and the ASU i speak of is App State Univ. here in NC and i don't think it has a MT major either, but it does have a great, not well known at all, music program. also i have a general question....are there such schools with great musical theatre majors/programs that are not highly competitive? i may use one or 2 as a safety, but frankly, and not to sound haughty, but if it's not competitive and highly sought-after, i can't be sure if the program is good at all.. </p>

<p>newho, small update to those who are interested: it's not set in stone yet, but based on the new information i have received, i think i'm going to audition at NYU's Steinhardt rather than Tisch.</p>

<p>thanks a bunch you guys! keep commenting!:)</p>

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<p>Steinhardt sounds good for you based on your primary vocal training over drama training. Also, some of the music schools on your list for vocal performance have an excellent reputation. Somewhere on this forum - you could search - there is discussion about how very high the SAT scores must be to get accepted into Steinhardt. I almost want to say it was in the 1400 range, but someone else may remember better than me. You might want to read about it unless you have very high scores already.</p>

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<p>Hobbit - I forgot to address your other question - to get a list of schools that are MT and competitive vs. not as competitive vs. no audition required, go to FAQ link at top of MT main page, then click into the third area on the left, called Big List. Pay attention to the "key" to answer all your questions! I would highly recommend not going for ALL competitive programs. If none of them work out for you, there needs to be an alternate plan.</p>

<p>I know someone who just graduated from Appalation State U, not in performing arts, but I think he was happy there.</p>

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<p>Hobbit, </p>

<p>My d has several friends who will be attending ASU in their music program this fall...at least one in their vocal program, and while we can't tell you yet how they like it, I do know that their music program has a fantastic reputation. They don't, however, have an MT degree...they have a good theater department, but from what we understand, the music and theater department do not like to crossover at all. I do urge you to check out Elon, especially if you want to stay in NC...it has a beautiful campus and their MT program is top-notch. My d absolutely loved it there, but was not accepted (only accept 16). She will be attending OCU in August in their MT program so if you are interested in OCU, perhaps she can give you some insightat a later date. My d is very classical/opera oriented as you mentioned you are, and she found OCU's BM MT to be a perfect fit for her.</p>

<p>Good luck !
~lexasmom</p>

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<p>An aquaintance of ours said she got into Steinhardt for the artistic review, but not academically. Have you heard of that happening? I didn't think they told you why you didn't get in. Also, her SATs were in the 1500 range.</p>

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<p>It is my understanding that the director for MT at Steinhardt works with one general NYU admissions officer. Admission seems to be primarily talent/audition based . Great academics help but if your SAT scores are not 1400+ you're not necessarily out of the running there. However, if you are not accepted into the MT program, you are out of the running for any other NYU program, including Tisch, liberal arts, etc.</p>

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<p>rossji, it's possible that the girl had a low gpa and that might have been what hurt her. NYU looks at gpa above test scores, and you're more likely to get in with slightly lower SAT than a slightly lower gpa. If her SAT was actually in the 1500's then there's obviously something else there that is keeping them from accepting her. I have heard anecdotally of people being told the reasons that they weren't accepted, but nothing from anyone whom I actually know and trust so I'm not sure that it really happens. :) As far as it being impossible to get into Steinhardt with a score of less than 1400, I do know that that is not true because a friend of my D did it two years ago.</p>

<p>mommd, you're right. You may only apply to one college at NYU.</p>

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<p>My D was admitted to NYU/Steinhardt with solid grades (B+/A- average from a very well regarded, small, Quaker highschool) but with SAT's under 1300. Unless there is a pre-audition academic review (as at UM), if a school likes your audition enough, you'd be surprised how flexible the SAT threshholds become ;) .</p>

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<p>alwaysamom, I know what you mean about hearing things from someone you know and trust. This girl is just an aquaintance, but we've seen her perform as the lead in many local productions, and she is VERY talented. My d's best friend is friends with her, and he said she is a straight-A student AND got in the 1500's on her SATs. My d met her at a party, and she told my d that she got in talent-wise, but not academic-wise. But again, I didn't hear all the pieces of info directly, so I have a feeling something got miscommunicated. However, you never know about these things. I know someone else, VERY talented, who didn't get into CAP21 but got into CCM, and I know another girl who got into CAP21 who, in my opinion, isn't as talented as the girl who didn't get into CAP21 (she did get into another acting studio, though, so it wasn't her grades). Sometimes it just isn't logical, but you know how talent is subjective!</p>

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<p>thank you all SOOOOOOOOO much! i'm planning visits to nyu, cmu, emerson, yale, eastman, julliard, and maybe peabody in the first or second week of august....i'll already be really busy...but anywhere else in the northeast or on the way from north carolina to that area that you all think i should check out based on my interests??</p>

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<p>Not sure if on your way to Pittsburgh, but what about Shenendoah Conservatory? I don't have first hand knowledge but have read where people like it; you could search CC. I believe it is an MT program with strong music.</p>

<p>Glad you are getting to go on a trip to visit some of your choices.</p>

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<p>Penn State should be right on your way. Did you consider that? A good friend of ours goes there; he got into many MT programs and chose that over all the others. He LOVES it, and he's very talented.</p>

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<p>I know this response is a bit late in the discussion, but my computer is in the shop so I have to use public access internet...</p>

<p>Like Hobbit, I am one of those kids who is running this whole operation themselves. And although I take pride in my independance, this whole things has been one of my greatest challenges and stressors to date. I want to reiterate the importance of this forum and the senior members (aka not me) who give the time to help people like hobbit and I.</p>

<p>Also I agree that the lenght of the entire forum is almost too large to completely read. When I began this daunting task I quickly became overwhelmed and stressed rather than consoled by all the helpful information.</p>

<p>Through my experience, everyone I talk to in the theatre world, whether in my hometown in Atlanta or in New York where I am now, has their own strong opinion on subjects like NYU vs. CMU, BFA vs BA, MT vs Acting, audion materials etc. One of the beauties of a place like this is that a person can hear all sorts of opinions on a single subject. </p>

<p>So thanks everyone...</p>

<p>...and for us rising seniors....RELAX AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS</p>

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<p>Hobbit, it seems to me you would benefit from from a BM in musical theatre because of your strong vocal training... Some of these schools include; Arizona State, Catholic, FSU, Miami, Steinhardt, OKCU and of course Baldwin-Wallace, my school. If you have any questions, please PM me!</p>

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<p>im confused on nyu right now...if i dont get into cap 21...id want to be a vocal performance major...is that possible? i was searching all over nyus website for the vocal performance major...and couldnt find it...(id do this with the hope of transferring into cap 21 later)</p>