<p>hey guys... i just got accepted into cmu, cornell, and cooper, and im having a really tought time deciding what to choose. i got into the business school and engineering school in cmu, and the engineering school in cornell, and the engineering school in cooper. </p>
<p>first of all, i am torn between engineering and business so that may rule cooper union out because of its strict nature of the school. </p>
<p>but then again, money is another issue and cooper is offering full tuition. </p>
<p>and cmu is the only business college i applied to. i thought maybe cmu is good for me since it has both good business and engineering programs.</p>
<p>and cornell is a frickin damn good school... especially for engineering.</p>
<p>please help!! i dont know what to do. give me guidance!</p>
<p>You can always transfer if you change your mind at Cornell. And besides, it's Cornell! A little extra money to pay is more than a fair price for that Cornell edge and experience. </p>
<p>Just my two cents. Oh by the way, I'm going to Cornell.</p>
<p>Giving up a full ride scholarship to the Cooper Union may not be wise. But if your loaded with money, then by all means, go to Cornell or CMU. If you go to Cooper and work hard, you can always go to a top notch graduate school like MIT. Plus, you'll end up with little or no debt vs. amassing around a 100K debt from Cornell or CMU by the time you graduate.</p>
<p>You'll be at a job equivalent to CMU and Cornell grads' prestige; the only difference is, they have a scary loan to pay off when you pay don't have to pay off zilch.</p>
<p>for engineering...go Cooper because of the tuition and it's got great prestige. Cornell and CMU are fantastic engineering schools, but I wouldn't go into great debt for them. In engineering going to a top Public school...Michigan, Illinois, Berkeley, UCLA, etc...is the same as a top private, possibly except MIT. </p>
<p>But, you'll start at the same job. I went to Purdue and Berkeley and work with grads from Cornell, Vandy, MIT, Stanford, UCLA, etc...and they are basically considered equals to the company when recruiting. </p>
<p>And if you want an MBA eventually, i'd argue that Engineering is a better background than business and they tend to get paid more. My brother is in one of the top MBA programs, Wharton's exec., and he and many of his classmates are MIT Engineering guys.</p>
<p>It's not August just yet and college doesn't start till late August / Early september. He still has time to change if he wants to but Cooper may be too late....the housing will be all booked, everyone wants an apartment in NYC and they're all reserved by now.....</p>
<p>Cornell does have an undergraduate general business major but it is not housed where you might think. It is in the Ag School and it is NOT focused only on Ag Business. Cornell Engineering is awesome. Free is also awesome. But the living expenses might be higher at Cooper (maybe). And, Cornell financial aid grants might narrow the money gap. Engineering is generally a pretty lucrative career that might allow you to pay debt quickly. The impractical decision to go to Cornell might make you glad for the rest of your life. ...just some things to think about</p>
<p>Don't be fooled by Cooper. Yes, it has free tuition,but the room, board and fees are very high. In addition, you will not have much of a life at Cooper since it is such as small school. Personally, I would take either of the other schools over Cooper. If money is a real issue, I would send my kid to a good state school over Cooper.</p>
<p>Cooper is one of the top ten toughest colleges to accepted into. Also, their engineering, architecture, and art programs have an an amazing reputation. Very few get accepted to the Cooper; you might say that had you the option of choosing, you'd send your son to a state school. But I highly doubt you'd do that if your son really did gain admission into The Cooper Union. Many Cooper grads are at exec positions today and many of their undergrads get into top notch graduate schools like MIT, Cornell, CMU, etc...</p>
<p>I feel sorry for your if you made your son go to a state school over the Cooper Union. You're probably the only person I've ever heard say that you'd make your son go to a state school over The Cooper Union.</p>
<p>Epoch_Dreams, this is not a debate but an opinion. Yes, getting into Cooper is one of the toughest schools around. So what! This doesn't make their education top notch in and of itself. It also doesn't mean that they have better facilities or Nobel Prize winning teachers than that of MIT or even that of a top state school such as Berkeley, Michigan or even University of Maryland where we live. In fact, I think Cooper has NO Nobel Prize winners. It also doesn't mean that the students have a great social scene which they don't. Selectivity and facilities and social scene are very different things. I lived in NY not far from Cooper and NYU; thus, I do have some familiarization of what goes on there.</p>
<p>I visited their art department and so did another poster here, Mackanaw. Both of us weren't impressed.</p>
<p>In fact, if you search the <a href="http://www.studentsreview.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentsreview.com/</a> site and campus dirt site, there are a number of comments by Cooper students noting that "the only thing Cooper Union has going for it is selectivity." Whether this is true or not, I really don't care.</p>
<p>Frankly,my kids never applied to Cooper. They also wouldn't have been happy there!</p>
<p>Bottom line: Cooper is fine for certain students. It might not be a good fit for others. Even considering the total price of tuition and room and board, it might not even be cheaper than that of a state school for in state kids.</p>
<p>By the wayEpoch, According to Surveys conducted by the Chronicle of Higher Education, Cooper pays their professors much less then what is paid to institutions that offer docorial degress and even pays less than the median salary for institutions that just offer Bachelor's degrees.</p>
<p>The median salary for a full professor at Cooper is $93,000 for 2005. The Median salary for an Associate professor is $71,000 for 2005</p>
<p>This should be contrasted with the median salary offered at doctorial granting institutions for full professors which is: $135.000 and for Associate Professors of : $96,000. Notice the huge differential!</p>
<p>If you compare schools similar in size and offerings to that of Cooper Union, you will find that Cooper pays less than what is the median salary yet they are located in a very expensive cost of living city.</p>
<p>For examples, Cooper is considered a IIB school by the Chronicle of Higher Education. The median salary for Professors and Associate professors at IIB schools are respectively: $98,839 and $73,436</p>
<p>I have published this for students to note that Cooper probably doesn't get the top faculty due to their mediocre ( or even sub par) pay structure.</p>
<p>Okay good job. I hope your happy for insulting a smaller school. Maybe that makes you feel proud basing schools off how much their professors make.</p>
<p>Has it ever occured to you that smaller schools' number one priority is teaching rather than research. At large schools, the first thing on the list for profs. is research followed by teaching but at these smaller schools, its the other way around. As a result, the student can learn better.</p>
<p>Oh but wait....how much the professors gets paid is what makes the difference right?</p>
<p>It is hard to simply go by a rating without understanding the underlying principles behind the rating. For example, it the first rating that you cite that deals with architecture schools, the rating service notes,"Any school with a score of three or less. They may be the best teaching schools in the world, they may be producing the most sought-after architectural employees: but they are not the planet's intellectual leaders."</p>
<p>This rating service seems to place a heavy emphasis not on the facilites or quality of faculty but on the selectivity of the school's students. We all know that Cooper Union is very selective. I kowtow to all who get admitted there. Happy? However, this does not make them a better school than others with better faculty or facilities in my humble opinion.</p>
<p>I will acknowledge that I and Mackanaw did not review Cooper for its engineering or even architectural program but for the art program, which, as I noted, we weren't impressed with.</p>
<p>Finally, I will say again, I am NOT insulting Cooper Union. I think it is a good school! It is a matter of FIT. My kids would hate going to a school that is smaller than their middle school. They would hate not having great gym facilities with lots of wall climbing, tread mills etc and would hate a crappy social scene. This is true for my kids and I am sure for some other people. For some others,such as yourself, it might be an ideal place. Certainly, I think that being in NY City is one of the best places to go to school in the US.</p>
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I will acknowledge that I and Mackanaw did not review Cooper for its engineering or even architectural program but for the art program, which, as I noted, we weren't impressed with.
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<p>Maybe you should have reviewed The Cooper for its engineering and architectural departments. Are you going to base an entire school off of ONE of its programs? Are you going to base the entire staff and insult the school's faculty by calling them "sub-par" by looking at only ONE art program?</p>
<p>Did you know that engineering division of the Cooper has - by far - the most number of students at Cooper? And here you are making all these statements about the Cooper simply because of its art program. If you're going to judge The Cooper, please take into consideration its engineering schools as well as its architecture school before making a final insult.</p>
<p>(Sigh), Epoch_dreams notes,"Are you going to base the entire staff and insult the school's faculty by calling them "sub-par" by looking at only ONE art program"</p>
<p>Response: How did you ever get into Cooper with your reading abilities? Please reread what I wrote. I NEVER said that the faculty was sub par. What I complained about and what was said was, "the mediocre (or sub par) pay structure."</p>
<p>However, since YOU raised the issue, I do believe that when one school pays less than the median found at comparable schools, you probably get less notable faculty. I would think that this is especially true in a high cost of living city such as NY.</p>
<p>Cooper Union is not the hardest school to get into if you have perfect scores. That is about all they look at in your app. 2 kids in my school got in this year. They were rejected by the ivy league and top schools like duke but they had amazingly high scores. As long as you have a 1550+ and 770+ SAT 2's than this school is not as tough as you think. Also I must say that you will not get a good college experience from Cooper. There are so few people and its in a bad location that is rather boring. Also the buildings and dorms are some of the worst I have ever seen and the students seem to hate them. There is also very little community feel there, even less than schools like NYU and Columbia. I really dont think its that great of a school and the free education to me is not worth it.</p>
<p>wow, are you kidding me? Cooper Union is located in a place that's rather boring? The East Village is one of the best places to live in the city if you disregard living costs. Great nightlife, bars, restaurants, everything. Rent is through the roof in this neighborhood though. I can't for the life of me figure out what makes you say this place is boring, when in my opinion, this is the most exciting place in NYC to live in. Stanmaster22, what's a good location that's not boring then?</p>
<p>And what are you basing your opinion of "very little community feel there" off of may I ask? If anything, the small population of the school contributes to a greater "community feel." Everybody knows each other very well, especially the people within your major, which I can't imagining happening at large schools. We all learn to work with each other on various things, which is quite important once you get into the real world.</p>
<p>Although you say it's not too tough to get in with amazingly high scores, it is, without a doubt, tough to stay in. Cooper pushes people to the max so if you can survive this school, you know you can pretty much handle anything. Some people can make it through 4 or 5 years, some don't. Some make the decision themselves to leave the school; some are forced to leave. It's tough.</p>
<p>With that being said, of course every school has its pros and cons. However, it's hard to imagine all the cons being worth the $100k debt you'd acquire elsewhere.</p>