Cog/Behavioral Neuro Undergrad?

<p>I know there have been many threads on similar topics, and I've read a LOT of them. I'm just hoping someone would be able to shed a bit more light on my specific situation.</p>

<p>I'm eventually looking to enter a PhD program and do neuroscience research. From what I've read, some schools are better suited for PhD preparation, while others are more geared towards pre-med students. How do I go about finding out this information?</p>

<p>So far, my top schools list looks something like:
University of Rochester
Bucknell University
Lafayette College
University of Pittsburgh
Columbia University
Oberlin College</p>

<p>Columbia is a bit of a reach, the rest are about "just right." Are these on par with what I'm looking for? And what other schools would any of you suggest I look into for my undergrad based on this (so ideally, a cognitive/behavioral neuroscience program that emphasizes research)?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance. Sorry for any redundancy.</p>

<p>It’s difficult to gauge which schools fit you without any context of your stats and such, but Johns Hopkins, Washington University St. Louis, and UCLA all have very strong programs in these areas.</p>

<p>I know there are several UC schools that are great for this, but I’d really like to stay in the northeast from now. I’m in New York, and the farthest I’d really like to go is Ohio.</p>

<p>More information to help:
SAT cr, math, writing:
680, 690, 630</p>

<p>GPA: 3.8 unweighted </p>

<p>AP Euro, U.S., Physics B, Biology, Calc AB
whatever else I’ve taken has been honors if possible.</p>

<p>Does that help at all? I’m not sure what else to add.</p>

<p>BU and Brandeis both have excellent neuro programs.</p>

<p>Pitt and Columbia are the best undergrad neuro programs on your list, Rochester third. Personally, I wouldn’t even consider the other ones for neuroscience unless there is a specific professor/lab at those schools that you definitively want to work for. For undergrad, with the goal of becoming a PhD (which I am so I can speak about it directly), perhaps the most important thing is your undergraduate research experience. Grad programs will be most impressed if you have done substantial research and are able to communicate that research effectively to them, as well as show you can think critically about it, in admission interviews. Research experience, publications, GREs scores, grades and recommendations from your lab mentors will get you those interviews, but schools want students who have done research and understand what they’ve done in the lab on a deeper level, not just students who have been told what to do in a lab every day but don’t really comprehend why they’ve done the experiments. Learning to think like a scientist is going to be accomplished by working in a lab on your own research project, so schools with a large number and variety of well funded, regularly publishing labs in neuroscience, as well as a excellent undergraduate research structure, are programs you should be looking at. You want to be able to find a lab doing work you are interested in and enjoy, and get into the lab sooner than later…which will give you more time to get up to speed, find a lab you enjoy, and thus a better chance at getting the work that you are doing published. Getting some authorships should be a goal. I would say you also want to look for well established undergraduate neuroscience programs that have their own department and faculty, not just a biology department that added a few courses to create a neuro concentration because it has suddenly become a popular topic.</p>

<p>Thanks, wgmcp101.</p>

<p>Are there any other schools you would recommend I look into, knowing my stats and basic interests? Brandeis or Lehigh? And obviously Brown would be wonderful, but that’s a big reach most likely. </p>

<p>But I’ve only heard good things about Oberlin’s neuroscience department. I thought it was supposedly among the top programs and was very research-based. Have you heard otherwise?</p>

<p>Dartmouth, UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSD, UC Davis, and UCI all have good undergrad neuro programs.</p>

<p>Wow. You sound almost exactly like me a year ago when I was looking for good CogSci schools in the similar area (research was less of an importance for me, though). </p>

<p>I would suggest looking at Case Western Reserve in Cleveland.</p>

<p>Where did you end up applying and going, Theasterisk?</p>

<p>And I have looked at Case Western–it seems like a wonderful school, but schools like Oberlin, Pitt, and Brandeis are all the same distance from me as Case is, and I’d likely rather go to one of those sooner than Case.</p>

<p>Unless you desire a small college setting, I would not recommend smaller liberal arts colleges, nor would I recommend Lehigh. I’ve never heard one thing about Oberlin and I’ve been in the Neuroscience field for 15 years. That doesn’t mean it isn’t good, but they have no neuroscience research going on at least in my field which is neuro disease. Although there are many of these very good smaller schools, some that do a little research like Lehigh, they will not have anywhere close to the opportunities for undergrad research that exist at major research universities. Typically, small liberal arts schools also won’t have as nearly as well established neuroscience curriculum nor as many neuro-themed courses to choose from…they just don’t have the faculty to teach the classes. </p>

<p>Taking a quick look at Oberlin’s neuroscience department (they obviously have no grad component and little research going on), they do seem to have a nicely structured department set up with a nice number of neuro courses for a liberal arts school. Their faculty aren’t publishing much, and it looks like only one student has had an authorship on a publication in the last four years (meeting abstracts aren’t the same, although they are nice to have). That said, if you are more comfortable in a smaller school setting, there are many graduates from these types of schools that successfully move onto very highly regarded graduate program at the larger research universities. It just that those student’s won’t necessarily have the background in neuroscience or the research experience that others might. Many students at small college students also do summer research fellowship programs at the larger research institutions to get the exposure to labs, but it is nearly impossible to get anything published at these summer programs. You can do research in labs at some of some of these smaller schools, but even at Oberlin there will be only a handful doing neuroscience (if that) and you will be much more restricted in the type of experiments you will be able to conduct because of a lack of facilities, equipment, resources, and funding. For instance, professors at these schools typically conduct research in cheap systems like flies, and not more expensive animals like mice and rats. There typically no core facilities, and it is just harder to find the type of work you really want to do. And finding a lab doing research you like is important, because the very nature of research is that there is typically exponentially more failures than successes, so if you are already unhappy with what you are working on (or the environment in the lab), you’re not going to like life in the lab.</p>

<p>However, I can’t stress this enough, if you are smart, hard working, an show an interest in research by getting lab experience, you’ll be fine as far as getting into grad school. A small school won’t keep you from your goal, and if you prefer a small school over a larger one, remember you only get one chance to enjoy your undergrad years. Go where you see yourself fitting in best, regardless of everything I stated above.</p>

<p>Regarding schools for neuroscience, and sticking to the Northeast, most of the usual suspects would be good for neuroscience, e.g. the Ivy’s. In Pennsylvania, really your two best choices are, by far, Pitt and Penn, and I have direct experience with both undergraduate programs. Both are excellent and one really isn’t better than the other. </p>

<p>As a quick and dirty indicator of how much medical/bioscience research is going on at a particular university, and thus the overall quality and breadth of research opportunities, the very best indicator is the amount NIH funding. Here are the top 10 schools in the US by NIH allocations.

  1. Harvard
  2. John Hopkins
  3. Penn
  4. UCSF (no undergrad)
  5. Pitt
  6. Michigan
  7. Washington (Seattle)
  8. UCLA
  9. Duke
  10. Washington Univ. (St. Louis)</p>

<p>You can also do a [url="<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/“]pubmed[/url”&gt;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/"]pubmed[/url</a>] search by institution and see how they are publishing in your field of interest.</p>

<p>I’d say, as an undergrad, there is also a distinct advantage of having the majority of labs and hospitals on the undergrad campus. It is just physically convenient to be able to pop in and out of labs between classes and other social engagements that one might have as an undergrad. Pitt and Penn both have the major concentrations of research labs and their medical centers right on their undergrad campuses. I believe John Hopkins would be an example where most of the labs are not on the undergrad campus as the med campus is about 4-5 miles away, although they probably have great programs to do research at the labs at NIH (at least they do for grad students). Just something to think about.</p>

<p>Also, since you have an idea of what you’d like to do, it might be a good idea to look into what the faculty are researching at any school you are interested in. If there are labs that really stick out as interesting to you, contact the professor (probably by email is best) and just explain your situation and mention that you might like to meet with them to learn more about their work if you visit the school or end up attending there. It never hurts to make connections.</p>

<p>Thank you, wgmcp101, that was very helpful. I understand completely what you’re saying about the whole size and funding aspect. I think ideally I would want to go somewhere comparable in size to the U of R–on the smaller side, but not as small as a LAC. The size is not the most important to me, however, and I would sooner go to a big school for a good program than sacrifice the experience and education.</p>

<p>How do I go about find out what people at the schools are researching? Should I be able to find it somewhere on the school’s site, or do I look into the individual professors?</p>

<p>^^Look on the school website. Find the Neuro department’s page and look at the breadth of the course offering. Then click on the Faculty list. Often each professor will have his/her own page that tells about their particular research interests.</p>

<p>Perhaps Franklin & Marshall</p>

<p>[Oberlin</a> College News & Features](<a href=“http://www.oberlin.edu/news-info/05jun/heueraward.html]Oberlin”>http://www.oberlin.edu/news-info/05jun/heueraward.html)</p>

<p>“Oberlin College was one of the first undergraduate institutions in the United States to recognize the importance of this discipline, first offering an undergraduate major in Neuroscience in 1972. Oberlin’s Neuroscience Program is seen by many as one of the best undergraduate programs of its kind in the country, as indicated by its recognition as a “Program That Works” by Project Kaleidoscope, a National Science Foundation supported group interested in the improvement and reform of science education. In 2005, the program received the Heuer Award for Outstanding Achievement in Undergraduate Science Education. The Program currently enrolls 60 majors.”</p>

<p>[Overview</a> - Oberlin College](<a href=“http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/neuroscience/index.dot]Overview”>http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/neuroscience/index.dot)</p>

<p>Obviously an LAC is not going to lead the way in published research or course selection. Such schools market initimate environments, both academically and socially, with a relatively strong sense of campus culture, small classes, and a track record of students successfully going on to earn PhDs in their respective fields. The research is likely not the most cutting edge, but it is the undergrads who are doing it. The statistics suggest that this doesn’t seem to keep them out of attaining the next level. </p>

<p>As a generic matter, undoubtedly such schools will have less breadth and depth of offerings vs. a comprehensive university, in virtually any field.
Someone who swings the LAC way accepts this as part of the tradeoff, vs, other aspects of an LAC education that they believe to be more favorable for them.</p>

<p>Here’s a start, like was mentioned above, just look for the neuro home pages at each school and the link to the faculty. Sometimes at larger institutions (like Pitt) there are multiple departments doing neuro-related research that a student could work in.</p>

<p>Pitt: teaching faculty: [Teaching</a> Faculty | Department of Neuroscience | University of Pittsburgh](<a href=“http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/teaching-faculty.php]Teaching”>http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/teaching-faculty.php)
Pitt neuro research faculty: [Training</a> Faculty](<a href=“http://cnup.neurobio.pitt.edu/people/faculty.aspx?by=x1]Training”>http://cnup.neurobio.pitt.edu/people/faculty.aspx?by=x1)</p>

<p>Rochester teaching faculty: [Undergraduate</a> Neuroscience Program Faculty](<a href=“http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/neuro/faculty.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/neuro/faculty.html)
Rochester research faculty: [Neuroscience</a> Cluster – Mentor Eligible Faculty](<a href=“http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/neuroscience/grad/faculty/mentor-eligible.cfm?displayPhotos=true&searchText=]Neuroscience”>http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/neuroscience/grad/faculty/mentor-eligible.cfm?displayPhotos=true&searchText=)</p>

<p>Columbia (search): [Columbia</a> Neuroscience](<a href=“Neuroscience | Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons”>Neuroscience | Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons)</p>

<p>Oberlin: [About</a> the Faculty - Oberlin College](<a href=“http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/neuroscience/faculty_listing.dot]About”>http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/neuroscience/faculty_listing.dot)</p>

<p>Bucknell: [Neuroscience</a> || Faculty and Staff || Bucknell University](<a href=“http://www.bucknell.edu/x29792.xml]Neuroscience”>http://www.bucknell.edu/x29792.xml)</p>

<p>Lehigh: [Lehigh</a> University Department of Biological Sciences](<a href=“http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/faculty/index.htm]Lehigh”>http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/faculty/index.htm)</p>

<p>Lafayette: [Neuroscience:</a> Faculty](<a href=“http://neuroscience.lafayette.edu/neuroscience-faculty/]Neuroscience:”>Faculty · Neuroscience · Lafayette College)</p>

<p>Thank you, monydad, I agree fully.</p>

<p>I feel like going to a smaller school would provide a better environment for actually learning rather than just trying to impress graduate programs. And, after speaking with some directors of leading graduate programs, I realize that I do not have to necessarily be involved in the absolutely cutting-edge research, as long as I’m dedicated to the research that I am doing. And there are always opportunities for summer research programs at larger universities.</p>

<p>So other than say U of R, Bucknell, Oberlin, Hamilton, Colgate, and Vassar, where else should I look?</p>

<p>I am looking into animal behaivor, a closely related field. My top choice at the moment is Franklin and Marshall. They have capuchins and squirrel monkeys, and maybe rats and bees? I forget exactly. I was impressed that when I ate lunch with an animal behavior major and some of her friends they talked about getting grants for research like they were completely unlimited. Also, I met with Roger Thompson one of the professors and he was great! Gave my family a lot of time, nice tour, and seemed extremely knowledgeable about research going on in other parts of the country and world that he’d sent students to.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m sorry to repeat myself, but perhaps jaga47 should consider Franklin & Marshall, too:</p>

<p>[Franklin</a> & Marshall - Neuroscience at F&M](<a href=“F&M Page Not Found”>F&M Page Not Found)</p>

<p>[Franklin</a> & Marshall - Scientific & Philosophical Studies of Mind](<a href=“F&M Page Not Found”>F&M Page Not Found)</p>

<p>“Thank you, monydad, I agree fully.”</p>

<p>For the record, I was presenting the LAC argument, not necessarily advocating for it.
My own D1 attended an LAC, got interested in a particular sub-area of her field and found she could not pursue it there. And was later negatively impacted by course offering limitations in her chosen field senior year; she wound up taking a couple of courses she wasn’t that interested in to complete her major.</p>

<p>On the other hand, many others do not encounter such limitations, and are thankful for the smaller classes and closer relationship with their professors. As well as the more intimate and uniform social milieu.</p>

<p>There is no universally right answer, one just has to choose.</p>

<p>BTW family friend is having a seemingly great experience in this area at U Rochester.</p>

<p>Depending upon whether the OP is male or female, Barnard would be an excellent choice for neuroscience undergrad. Plenty of research opportunities available plus you are required to write a thesis based upon original research as a requirement for graduation. Barnard is well thought-of by grad programs in the field.</p>