<p>As a mostly non-posting reader I suggest ending the thread. markham is either pulling your chains or is so confused as to make further discussion pointless.</p>
<p>SAY,
There is some truth to the “pulling your chains” choice you have offered. With the passage of time I expect that both posters and readers admit that they have learned something about the art of polite dialogue - when assisting the original poster about his concerns and the specific benefits one might associate with NU might well have been productive. Arbiter213 (great name if you are in the judiciary handing out summary judgements, btw) has almost 3000 entries so by now must have encountered plenty of interesting posters in his 5 years on this site. I am glad that he rose to the occasion.</p>
<p>markham, I am curious as to why you feel the need to jump across the various forums to defend Colgate? You are obviously an alum with a student that attends there. You must initiate searches across all the forums using the word Colgate to find these causes to champion. Are you that worried the school cannot rest on it’s laurels? I can understand responding in the Colgate forum or even the parent’s forum but why follow all the other college ones? I would think if the OP wanted the responses of Colgate followers it would have been posted in that forum as well.</p>
<p>“It was not binding at that time. I remember changing my Colgate application to ED, was accepted a week later, and then wrote to NU in Evanston, not Boston.”</p>
<p>@markham, you mean you got the acceptance from NU ED and didn’t want to attend so you changed your Colgate app from RD to ED and got accepted from Colgate a week later? Something doesn’t make sense… To receive the result in a week (I have a hard time understanding this also), I assume you processed your app online. Correct? I don’t know when ED at NU was “not binding”, but I believe it is not in recent years if it ever was. AND online app processing has not been around that long… So I am suspecting that there is a mistake in recalling your college application process???</p>
<p>The early notification (not ED) program at NU gave decisions in mid Feb when RD decisions were made in early April. Earlies were not binding asI recall. I changed my RD application at Colgate to ED in Jan and was accepted about a week later. With the acceptance I stood back and waited and in Feb received the NU letter which I then declined. Hope that is clearer. That was some time ago in the mid 70s.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me to see how people represent their views and what they mean. Sometimes it takes some digging to get to facts based on experiences that might be useful vs opinions such as “my school is better”. Better for whom, how and why? It shouldn’t matter where the questions are posed. Further, I also contribute to other schools’ threads eg most recently that of Mount Holyoke.</p>
<p>About Colgate resting on its own laurels, well, how would that happen? People need to contribute. It’s important to give facts, refer to accessible sources and encourage campus visits, meetings with students, professors, administrators. It’s terrific when applicants can frame their questions clearly and press for what they are seeking. The same applies for their parents although I often wish they would stand back more from the process and let their children handle the work… Also, I think lots of traffic is indicative of interest too. On the top LAC section there is a hierarchy with Williams way on top followed by Amherst, Midd and Bowdoin. So if I can be supportive I like to get involved. I had then and continue to have a strong association with Colgate. If I can offer some thoughts as to why I think it’s a good choice vs other choices I am happy to do so.</p>
<p>Yikes, I have the hierarchy incorrectly! Before someone jumps on me it starts with Amherst, Swarthmore and Williams with a few more names above and below Midd.</p>
<p>If your only experience with NU was applying in the mid 70’s, then it’s likely difficult for you to have much sense of the school one way or the other. I am sure Colgate is a fine school and I know people who have gone there and loved it. All the same, by most objective measures it’s hard to say that NU doesn’t beat Colgate. </p>
<p>Two of the subjective measures - weather and party / frat life – were cited upthread. I would consider Colgate and NU six of one, half dozen of the other with respect to having cold weather, and with respect to parties / Greek life … it is my understanding that Colgate is more Greek-dominated simply because there is not the modulating edge of social life in a big city that NU has. (In other words, if you’re not Greek at NU, you still have all the resources of Chicago at your doorstep.)</p>
<p>You are right. I don’t know much about the NU of today. I understand that it has become much more selective for the Arts & Sciences school however and so your alumni must be very pleased with that part of your recent history.</p>
<p>Your views on social life will be helpful to applicants, no doubt. Thanks for the balanced response! That said, I am not sure what is implied or what the takeaway is about “it’s hard to say that NU doesn’t beat Colgate.” For example, if an applicant wants a smallish liberal arts college in a rural setting, then the measures you refer would not apply, would they? </p>
<p>Sorry to be what some would call pedantic or worse.</p>
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<p>You are correct, but then it would beg the question as to why a student who strongly prefers a smallish LAC in a rural setting would have applied to NU in the first place. Of course, some students are indifferent between the two.</p>
<p>That’s a very interesting question- why do people apply to different types of schools. But since they are teenagers with a smallish amount of information to start with, working through so many issues and people (parents and guidance counselors etc), many probably get a bunch of applications out the door and use the time until they hear anything to do more research, college tours, hear anecdotal stuff and more recently use this type of vehicle. Many, and especially the foreign applicants don’t know what research univ is in terms of an LAC. I even heard the in China many believe that the USN&WR rankings are official US gov’t publications and so won’t look beyond HYPS! So it’s not surprising when some applicants ask is this school or that school more prestigious/which will help them more to get into a top medical school/which school is more laid back Birkenstock/which school has the closer mall for my shopping habit (aargh)/which school has better looking students etc. It’s only when they move into the “awareness” stage via education that they know enough to look beyond stereotypes etc and see what the setting at each school offers for them. Then I have seen that many can say “this college is best for ME.” </p>
<p>About rural schools- those in towns below eg 5000 local residents- Greek life can be important. Colgate has 6 frats and 3 sororities for 2900 students, 6 restaurants, about 6 bars, cafes, 2 theaters and 3 art galleries in its small town. But so what? What do students do with their time. I have found that the self-selected student body is very keen on sports and recreation as past times and spend most of their time studying. That suits them but I have also seen (on this forum) some applicants say Colgate is too “rah rah” and so they can prefer other LACs with less emphasis on Greek life and sports. What’s also interesting about Colgate is that the applicant pool at decision time does not overlap as much as some would expect with other LACs. So to your question I would answer that it seems that Colgate applicants also consider larger schools such as NU, NYU, Wake, Cornell, Georgetown etc. What’s unique about Colgate is its size and its course offerings in the liberal arts. It’s about 1000 students larger than a Hamilton College but of course smaller than more diversified universities such as NU.</p>
<p>It’s great that applicants have so much access to information to lead to their choices. I remember looking through college catalogues and the Barrons guide as sources until I made a couple of college visits.</p>
<p>Markham: That was a great post! Thank you for being more explicit! Colgate seems like it’s in many ways a mirror of NU (or vice versa!)- great athletics, studious student body. I would say NU is a bit more cosmopolitan for various reasons (multiple schools, larger student body, Chicago, etc.), but otherwise they seem to be very similar cultures. The smaller community at Colgate can certainly be a plus, though NU is by no means overwhelmingly large. I would say on balance NU’s academics are likely stronger, but if a student wants the closer sense of community guaranteed, Colgate has some real advantages there (NU can be a great place for community, but it can also be very lonely for some).</p>
<p>I knew I didn’t want a school as small as the LACs, so I didn’t apply, but I also didn’t want anywhere as big as a state school if I could help it- NU turned out to be just the right size for me. But if a student wants to know everyone in their year before graduation, then they may like Colgate better. I’m also willing to bet Colgate’s housing and food are better, even if the restaurants and bars are substantially worse (and I can’t say they are, but by sheer numbers one has to reason…)</p>
<p>Yes, from what you describe, I can also see similarities between Colgate and NU.</p>
<p>Arbiter213 and Pizzagirl,
Thank you for your kind feedback on my last post and perspective. I would love to visit NU some day… I have seen it when flying to and from ORD while in transit to Syracuse. Other than that the closest I have been is through what I have heard from your last Athletics Director, Mark Murphy, Colgate '77.
I am off now to watch some TV with a glass of Burgundy.
That’s the tonic to a long day.
Regards</p>
<p>The end of this “benevolent argument” has been really enlightening.</p>
<p>Well, I think that’s part of the Northwestern character. We’re not, ahem, some of the other colleges on CC (not naming any names) where a discussion about whether a student should chose them or someone else needs to devolve into “they SUCK! there’s no other choice but ours! we are so superior, we’re prestigious in Asia and 100% of our grads are i-bankers and chocolate flows from the fountains!” Part of the Northwestern character is this openness – this feeling of hey, we’re pretty proud of ourselves and what we stand for and the special opportunities we offer, but we’re not for everybody, and there are plenty of other great places too. Which is one reason, for example, that there really isn’t true rivalry between us and U of Chicago (other than occasional light-hearted trash talk) – because it’s not necessary for us to put down others to be proud of what we offer. I personally find it a much better brand character than some of the arrogance that I think permeates some other schools. Not naming names, but one’s a very short name :-)</p>
<p>Brown? ;-)</p>
<p>This “benevolent argument” feels more like a paid political announcement for a Colgate booster. I had little interest in jumping in here, but it’s long past time for someone who knows both schools to offer an alternate reality to markham’s somewhat slanted posts.</p>
<p>There is, of course, nothing wrong with choosing a liberal arts college over Northwestern.<br>
But in no way, shape, or form is Colgate “a mirror of NU” or competing on the same playing field as do LACs like Williams and Pomona.</p>
<p>Colgate is, by markham’s own admission, a self-selected institution. Unlike “top LACs” this school is not need blind. Only about 1/3 of the student body receives financial aid. The dominant draw is privileged New England/NY-NJ-Penn upper middle class/upper class full pay students with a very low minority representation. This campus is no melting pot.</p>
<p>The academic quality of Colgate’s student body has been rising and is strong, but the median SAT scores remain about 100 points below Northwestern with ACT scores similarly lower. These are meaningful differences, especially considering Northwestern’s need-blind status and outreach to minorities.</p>
<p>Hamilton is tiny and Syracuse, not exactly a spring break destination, is one hour away. Alcohol is a dominant feature at Colgate, as it is on most campuses, but unlike Northwestern it is much more a one horse town. At NU, with thousands more kids on campus, Evanston attached at the hip, and Chicago down the block, the social scene, like the student body, IS diverse and offers something for everyone.</p>
<p>Colgate can be a great choice for the self-selected student who fits. But “a mirror of NU,” “similarities,” well, we do both have University after our names. :)</p>
<p>That raises an interesting question. In terms of “universities that are like NU,” I could make a decent case for Penn, Cornell, WashU, and / or Tufts (various reasons for each selection). If I had to find “LAC’s that are like NU” – in terms of overall feel, student body – what would be reasonably good parallels? Understanding, of course, that an LAC will never be completely parallel to a university.</p>
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<p>Brown? I’ve never seen a school that spends more time poking fun at itself than Brown. At their recent admitted but still-undecided students event, they ran a film clip collection of TV and movie excerpts of people making fun of Brown. There’s a video skit that can be found online, part of a CS class introduction of all things, that makes fun of their supposed hipsters and hippie-communists. And one of their restaurants once had bad food and was nicknamed “the Ratty.” Today you can find their official restaurant webpage where they actually call themselves “the Ratty.” For a restaurant?</p>
<p>While I’m sure there are individual students from any school who like to spend their time on CC putting down other schools, doing so doesn’t fit with Brown’s style, as far as I have been able to see.</p>