Colgate vs. Bates vs. Wesleyan vs. Hamilton

<p>I've applied to Wesleyan, Bates, Hamilton and Colgate.</p>

<p>I really like the curriculum at each school, and I understand that each has a decent mathematics department. All of the schools appear to be very good preparation for grad school. Being able to double major outside the maths and sciences is also important and appears to be possible at all of these schools.</p>

<p>I am looking for:
-- a collaborative environment
-- casual music (instrumentally, not as a major)
-- non-varsity level of swimming or crew (somewhat seriously, but leaving academics as a priority)
--active outing club/or similar</p>

<p>I was also wondering what differences there are in the social atmosphere between the schools.</p>

<p>Colgate- great all around, d1 sports, larger student body than the rest, bigger greek life
Hamilton- similar to colgate, but smaller, d3 sports
Bates- similar to hamilton, but a little more artsy
Wesleyan- super liberal, hippy</p>

<p>Thanks julespt!</p>

<p>can you elaborate on the social atmosphere some? Any general/stereotypical differences in the way students spend their free/spare time?</p>

<p>Colgate and Hamilton are preppier than the others. A lot of Colgate students are involved in greek life, more than the rest. A lot and definitely more than half of the students at these 2 play some kind of sport, even if its just intramural. However, Colgate is d1 while Hamilton is d3. I found the social atmosphere to be really inclusive when I stayed at Hamilton overnight. Hamilton has the light side and the dark side, which is a geographical and stereotypical thing. Theres a lot of prepsters, but a lot of more hipster people, which i think makes for a good mix of people.
I haven’t been to Bates or Wesleyan although I know that Bates has a similar feel to Hamilton but is less preppy. Im not sure if they even have greek life at Bates.
Wesleyan is just super liberal. One of my friends went there on an overnight and witnessed a party where everyone had to go completely naked! I know 3 people who have gone there and don’t like it just because it is just too hippy. But if you’re really into that stuff, its a lot different than Colgate and Hamilton at least</p>

<p>Not sure how strong your stats are but for regular decision admission is Very difficult without a major “hook”. My perception is that Wesleyan is the hardest admission sell – it is a highly rated New England small LAC. Colgate (my alma mater) is probably tied with Hamilton at this point, mainly because Hamilton has risen on the US ranking and has fewer spots, but Colgate appeals more to a sporty and traditional/preppy crowd. Bates used to be a bit more flexible for applicants and standardized scores are “optional” If you are considering Wesleyan and Bates, I strongly suggest that you look at Oberlin (before Jan 15 deadline). Although Oberlin is far from a safety school it satisfies similar criteria and your chances at RD may be 10% greater. If you are a recruited athlete, have GPA= or greater than 4.0, plus SATs of close to 2400, or are a development candidate you should get in to at least one of your original four schools. Good luck and best wishes!</p>

<p>I am an International student. I applied to three of those four schools. Which do you think has the most conducive environment for internationals? And which gives the best fin aid?</p>

<p>On average Wesleyan students graduate with the most debt of the 4 colleges. Colgate is next. The two Maine states are lowest and within about a few hundred dollars of each other. Colgate, Bates and Bowdoin all specify that FA packages for international students are made up of grants and work-study. Wesleyan doesn’t say whether they expect international students to take out loans. Wesleyan has the Freeman Asian Scholars program, which provides 4-year scholarships to up to 11 students.</p>

<p>[Project</a> on Student Debt: State by State Data](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php)</p>

<p>As to which has the best atmosphere for internationals, you’ll get subjective answers based on the schools posters know best, and since no one here has attended all 4 you probably won’t get very useful comparisons. DH attended one of these schools and loved it but for all I know he would have liked another equally well.</p>

<p>Sue22,</p>

<p>Please clarify about the claims you are making. A review of the data set you refer to does not substantiate them, as follows:</p>

<p>Average debt per graduate 2011:</p>

<p>Colgate $19721</p>

<p>Hamilton $20262</p>

<p>Wesleyan $25864</p>

<p>Bates not supplied</p>

<p>Further, are you in financial aid advisory and/or business? If so, please comment on financial aid available at these schools for internationals, as requested by the last poster, with references.</p>

<p>Sorry, Hamilton, not Bowdoin. That’s what I get for posting when tired.</p>

<p>[Hamilton</a> College Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=414]Hamilton”>Hamilton College Overview | CollegeData)
[Colgate</a> University Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=235]Colgate”>Colgate University Overview | CollegeData)
[Wesleyan</a> University Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=205]Wesleyan”>Wesleyan University Overview | CollegeData)
[Bates</a> College Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=125]Bates”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=125)</p>

<p>Bates $18,699
Colgate $19721
Hamilton $20262
Wesleyan $25864</p>

<p>All 4 schools give financial aid to international students and do so largely in the form of grants and work-study. An international student is unlikely to receive loans, meaning the above figures are less important than they might be to a domestic student. They’re still useful in thinking about how the schools treat debt and how much they think is reasonable to take on. None are need blind for international student admissions.</p>

<p>[International</a> Students | Student Financial Services | Bates College](<a href=“http://www.bates.edu/financial-services/financial-aid/international-undergraduates/]International”>International Students | Student Financial Services | Bates College)</p>

<p>[Financial</a> Aid - International Students - Hamilton College](<a href=“http://www.hamilton.edu/finaid/international]Financial”>Financial Aid - International Students - Hamilton College)</p>

<p>[International</a> Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.colgate.edu/admission-financial-aid/apply/international-students/international-financial-aid]International”>http://www.colgate.edu/admission-financial-aid/apply/international-students/international-financial-aid)</p>

<p>[International</a> Students, Financial Aid - Wesleyan University](<a href=“http://www.wesleyan.edu/finaid/applying/internationalstudents.html]International”>http://www.wesleyan.edu/finaid/applying/internationalstudents.html)</p>

<p>Financial aid at all 4 schools is need based, meaning there are no merit awards. There are some differences in the way the 4 schools treat outside scholarships. This would be important to students coming to the school with a governmental or private scholarship award. All 4 schools use outside scholarships to first reduce the work portion of a student’s package (work-study or expected summer earnings if any). At Bates and Colgate the money can next go toward the family contribution. At Wesleyan and Hamilton it needs to cover the school’s grants before being used for the family contribution. Wesleyan limits the amount of non-merit outside aid to the first $1,500 before applying the money to college grants.</p>

<p>Wesleyan: "The University acknowledges the achievement of winners of merit-based outside scholarships by reducing self-help (loans or employment) dollar for dollar. Usually loans are decreased first, but at the student’s request, Federal Work-Study may be reduced first. Merit based scholarships in excess of self-help will reduce Wesleyan gift-aid.
Awards not based on merit (such as employer tuition benefits) will reduce self-help only by the first $1500. All amounts over $1500 reduce Wesleyan gift-aid. </p>

<p>Bates: “Bates has a generous outside scholarship policy. Students can use outside scholarships to reduce or eliminate the loan and/or work portions of a financial aid package, or help with the family’s calculated contribution toward costs. A student’s Bates Scholarship is adjusted only when the combination of scholarship aid from all sources (Bates, federal, state or other) exceeds the student’s calculated cost of attendance.”</p>

<p>Colgate: “Could you explain how outside awards — for example, foundation scholarships — are taken into account in calcu- lating a Colgate financial aid package, and why it’s handled that way?
Hale: This is one area where every school’s got a different policy. We do count the award as an additional resource; however, we do not reduce the grant the student receives, but rather apply that outside award to reduce the job, loan, and/or family contribution.”</p>

<p>Hamilton: “Federal regulations require you to notify the Hamilton Financial Aid Office if you receive other financial awards. Outside scholarships will be applied first to reduce the work-study and/or loan portion of your package. The remainder of your outside award will be applied toward the Hamilton College Scholarship.”</p>

<p>double post</p>

<p>More information:
[10</a> Colleges That Give the Most International Student Financial Aid - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2012/10/16/10-colleges-that-give-the-most-international-student-financial-aid]10”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2012/10/16/10-colleges-that-give-the-most-international-student-financial-aid)</p>

<p>My impressions are entirely subjective but based on friends who attended these four schools along with a number of my own students (I am a teacher) and a couple of relatives who attended as well. So, Warning – Subjective Comments Only: </p>

<p>All four are very good academically with some smaller differences among them with regards to which school is more challenging, tougher to get into, which majors and programs are best, etc. That can mostly be found in college guidebooks and on the schools’ own websites. But, subjectively, I’d say Wesleyan is somewhat harder of the four to get into and Bates might be slightly less competitive. What this means I don’t know as it says nothing about the quality fo the schools. </p>

<p>Wesleyan – my impressions have not changed much over that years that Wesleyan is a bit of a trendy, almost counter-cultural school in some ways. One of my students was once rejected at Wesleyan for admitting to using marijuana which everyone at my school thought was absolutely hilarioius because Wesleyan has for years had a reputation for being a school where drug use is fairly open and widespread. She went to Cornell. Wesleyan has little interest in sports but lots in arts, theater, etc. Academically, like all these schools, it’s very good. It’s in a larger town, though not that pretty, than the other three schools and a little more centrally located and not so much in the “north woods” as the others. That may matter to some applicants. </p>

<p>Bates – A good solid Maine college but often ranked “third” among the Maine Three of Bowdoin, Colby, Bates. That doesn’t mean much, but there you go. I have never found Bates all that pretty a school or its location all that attractive, but this is mere subjectivity on my part, and it’s a very fine school academically. It plays lower level sports in Division 3, if that matters. I think of Div 3 as glorified high school sports, but I’m kind of snarky that way. Bates is a fine school and those who’ve gone there have really like it. Getting to Boston to catch a flight home takes 3+ hours on a bus, so you’ve been warned. </p>

<p>Hamilton – I have to admit not finding Hamilton a very appealing place, myself, although it is pretty enough and a very good college. A close friend attended Ham Coll, did not much like it, and that may have affected my perception of it. It is a fine college with a top academic program and is very similar to Colgate in that regard. It plays Div 3 sports so not much excitment there. But I have always found it a little too “prep school” for my taste, meaning not that preppies go there (which like Colgate, they do) but that it feels like a prep school, smallish, neat, tidy. I just cannot warm up to Hamilton. I told you this was subjective! You would not be unhappy to go to a school as good as Hamilton College, but I’d be unhappy there. </p>

<p>Colgate – a larger school than the other three with somewhat more activities in general, far more off-campus study and travel programs, perhaps a more diverse student body (but I have no stats in front of me to back that up), better known in general than the others perhaps, a much prettier campus (having visited all four schools), stunningly so in summer and fall especially, Div I athletics if you’re into sports, more “spirit” in some ways (especially than Wesleyan which is laid paid to the point of unbelievable), more “business like” and goal-oriented than most colleges, filled with very hard working students who party a lot to let off steam. </p>

<p>One man’s opinions, and I’m prepared to be called wrong by any alum from Hamilton, Bates, and Wesleyan, and who knows I might just be wrong?</p>

<p>ColgateDad-
You asked for it! :slight_smile:
I wrote a very long post with facts and figures, links and references, then spent so long posting it that it disappeared into cyberspace when my session timed out, so I’ll just give you the essentials here. The information is primarily from the 4 schools’ Common Data Set for 2011 and addresses only the objective data.</p>

<p>Acceptance rate (low to high):
Wesleyan
Bates
Hamilton
Colgate</p>

<p>Diversity (percentage white non-Hispanic, low to high):
Wesleyan
Hamilton
Colgate
Bates</p>

<p>Percentage of students studying abroad
Bates
Colgate
Hamilton/Wesleyan*

  • I don’t have numbers for the last two but they were not listed among schools with high numbers for students studying abroad. </p>

<p>Bates is 45 minutes from Portland and its airport.</p>

<p>One way Colgate distinguishes itself is through its D1 varsity programs. For many the combination of Colgate’s relatively large size among LACs and its unique varsity sports profile among top LACs makes for a compelling proposition. </p>

<p>I just saw the following link on the colgate.edu site and would recommend applicants take a few minutes to view it in order to see what I mean. I am sure you will admire its quality- whether or not you enjoy the sport:</p>

<p>Hager Productions just finished the Colgate University Men’s Hockey Team Video. [Colgate</a> Men’s Hockey Team Video 2013 - YouTube](<a href=“http://t.co/AN1BqX8y]Colgate”>http://youtu.be/ZjIHb-tMRiY) [Colgate</a> Men’s Hockey Team Video 2013 - YouTube](<a href=“http://t.co/hSoQKyb5]Colgate”>http://fb.me/Fc9ohnub)</p>

<p>Go 'gate!</p>

<p>I would not consider Hamilton at all. I found admissions extremely arrogant and old fashioned. Most prep schools do not rank the kids and Hamilton is obsessed with this. Better choices are Washington & Lee, Colby, Bates, William & Mary, Colgate, Lafayette and Wesleyan. </p>

<p>You might want to add Trinity to your list as well- top academics, first rate sports teams, excellent study abroad programs (Rome, Barcelona, Vienna, Paris, So. Africa, China), unparalleled community service opportunities, excellent internship program, and beautiful campus.</p>