<p>I'd like to get some opinions on how Bowdoin compares to Colgate. Has anyone's choices come down to these two great schools?</p>
<p>Why is no one responding to this thread? Are the two schools so different that no one considered both of them as top choices? I could really use some opinions, whatever they may be. Thanks.</p>
<p>The two schools are similar, although don't know too many that chose between them. Colgate is about 50% larger than Bowdoin and has fraternity/sorority system as a major social structure and D-I sports. That being said, most of the Bowdoin grads I know would have fit in well at Colgate and from what I've seen of them, vice versa. I think Bowdoin, in general, may be a little more liberal than Colgate.</p>
<p>My daughter and I visited both schools and she ultimately applied ED II to Bowdoin. We found Colgate to offer a beautiful campus, excellent admissions department experience, good academics, but with several liabilities. The town offered little or no opportunity for recreation, shopping, diversion from the campus social scene. Our tour was very average and our tour guide was not interested in trying to address more than the basic questions. Travel to and from campus for a student without a car would be challenging. In short, too isolated with not enough to recommend it that would overcome what we perceived at liabilities.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, we also visited Bowdoin which has the advantage of being near culturally rich Portland, shopping haven Freeport, and many outdoor opportunities for skiers and watersports enthusiasts alike. Brunswick is a great town for college students as well and Bowdoin itself has an art museum, wonderful theatre, and offers many speakers and other opportunities. The academics are excellent in many departments. At first I thought it was a little too prep, but was struck by the range of diversity evident on our second visit.</p>
<p>All that being said, above in my posts, forewarned: my daughter's scores were 700 or higher on all her SATs, she got a 33 composite on her ACT, all above the median that Bowdoin posts, had exceptional extracurriculars and references, and she was rejected. The difference between her and others we know who got in is that she had no hook, ethnic, athletic or otherwise.</p>
<p>Thank you both for responding. I have still yet to figure out this process of who gets accepted and who's rejected. I've heard so many stories of great grades, EC's, leadership, etc. and rejection, and then someone with much lower scores, etc., but who played the trumpet and the Bowdoin/Colgate type school happened to need the trumpet player at the time and accepted that student. Where did your daughter end up #1travlr, and are you a New Englander, and what other schools did your d look at?</p>
<p>We visited both and son felt most comfortable at Colgate. I agree that Div.I sports and the frat scene should end, but it may not happen for a while. My son likes the idea of 2700 students rather than 1700 (he's coming from a small private school), but he knows that Bowdoin (though less known outside of the Northeast) is probably a better academic school than Colgate. I think he couldn't go wrong with either school, and if I knew he'd be accepted into either of them, he could make another visit and stay overnight to be sure it should be his first pick. He does not have as high scores as your daughter, but does play sports and is very much into debate (which Bowdoin seems to appreciate a little more than Colgate).</p>
<p>Anyway, if a current Colgate student can answer a few questions, it would help alot: 1) where do you go for groceries and pharmacy items 2) where is the nearest mall 3) what options are there and how easy are they to do if you had lets say a 3 or 4 days weekend and could not go home (what would you do for change of pace) 4) does Colgate offer transportation to/from the grocery store(s), mall, Syracuse (city itself and airport), and places to go for a long weekend.</p>
<p>I am curious why you think Division I sports should "end" at Colgate?</p>
<p>You can get most basic groceries and drugstore things in or near Hamilton, and first and probably second year you'd be eating in the dorm anyway, so there shouldn't be much need for grocery shopping. There are some small but servicable malls in Norwich to the South about half hour and another north about the same. That said, for exotic or foodies or specialty groceries probably most go to Wegmans in Syracuse, about 45 min away. My daughter and her friends pile into someone's car and go periodically together. There's also a big mall in Syracuse. There's no Colgate provided transportation but you will definitely have a couple of friends who have cars and drive or lend you their car. Same for transportation to Albany or Syracuse Airports. There are cabs but most people get rides from friends driving to NJ, Conn or NY metropolitan area.</p>
<p>I know it's difficult to believe, but most Colgate students just do not find it necessary or even want to leave Campus for 3 or 4 days if its not a vacation. They're very happy there and can't wait to get back when they do go. Other times they'll go someplace together, to a friend's vacation house or off somewhere. Choices to get away from Colgate for a special dinner are in Cazenovia. I hear some of the guys go to the Turning Stone Casino .</p>
<p>Somehow, at least with my son, I think Colgate "isolation" won't be as bad for him as maybe some other students. I hope I'm not wrong, but it just seemed a "fit" for him. I was hoping that at least the first year, he'd be ok without a car.</p>
<p>As far as the Div. I athletics go, I love sports, but I think college is about learning, and to effectively compete at the Div. I level, you need to recruit the absolute best athletes to have any chance of effectively competing. So you inevitably accept students who are academically substandard to the levels established by the school for non athletes. And not only are you accepting students at a substandard academic level (even if it's only by a few points), you are giving many of them full rides. Yet academically gifted students are not getting free rides, so it's basically saying sports are more important than academics, and really college should be about academics. I don't think this is what the school(s) want, but it is what is happening.</p>
<p>If Colgate seemed a good fit for your son, it probably will be. Spend as much time with him as you can now before he leaves, you won't see him much afterwards.</p>
<p>I sometimes think Colgate only seems isolated to people making campus visits and parents coming up for Parents Weekend. The students there don't seem to notice it or mind. And your son won't need a car first year, don't worry about it. There will be enough people anyway, who do have them that he will get rides when needed.</p>
<p>Colgate is also a very fit campus with lots of people doing lots of athletics or intramurals, even if they're not on teams.</p>
<p>There are some students on some teams who are not as intellectually gifted or oriented as others. But no more so at Colgate than other places. And Colgate is pretty generous with aid to it's academic students, so I don't think anyone there feels that being there is more about sports than academics.</p>
<p>We are from the midwest. My daughter attended a rural boarding school in Massachusetts, however, and thought she would like to stay on the east coast for college because she loved her school and her years there as well as the competitive academic climate. She applied to Bowdoin, Williams, Davidson, Vassar, Macalester College in St. Paul, MN, and Connecticut College. She was admitted to Macalester, Vasser, and Connecticut, though, as with Bowdoin, her scores met or exceeded the median each of the schools has posted. She is enrolled at Macalester which, she would be the first to tell you, is an absolutely perfect fit for her in every way. Thank you Bowdoin for helping lead my daughter to the right outcome of her college search!! Couldn't be happier!</p>
<p>Additionally, we looked closely at and visited the following schools: Haverford, Middlebury, Univ. of Richmond, Wellesley, Colby. I would be happy to share thoughts on any of those if that would be at all helpful.</p>
<p>With regard to your son's greater comfort or sense of fit at Colgate, if you have weighed all the pros and cons, I am a firm believer in the importance of the gut reaction and the fit of both the academic offerings and the college community. And that fit is going to feel different and be different, potentially, for every student. </p>
<p>My daughter benefitted from having her choices narrow when the acceptances came out so that she could focus on the strengths of the choices available to her and make a very intentional selection. Programmatically, Macalester is by far the strongest for her interests which are International Studies, English and Media Studies. She is loving being in the Twin Cities with all that they have to offer as well.</p>
<p>Onlyone, I guess I don't see how your point is only applicable to D1 sports; the same issue comes up (and has been debated many times here on CC) for D3 sports. I do think that D1 sports is a part of Colgate's identity, and differentiates it from other similar size schools - it was one of many factors that led my son to prefer Colgate to other northeastern liberal arts schools. While fraternities are not the dominant force they once were on campus (and I think this is a good thing), Colgate remains committed to D1 sports (I think this is also a good thing).</p>
<p>Dear OnlyOne2013,</p>
<p>As a student at Colgate, I would just like to comment on your questions as well as some of the responses. First off, the Village of Hamilton definitely seems small, especially as a prospective on a visit. I think it's important to realize that a lot isn't obvious to the eye; we DO have two art galleries and museums, one on campus and one a block from downtown. We have two pharmacies, the local Crowe's Apothecary and big-brand Kinney's. In regards to places for food, there is Grand Union, the main super market, Hamilton Wholefoods, and a Price Chopper is coming soon. we also have the Saturday farmer's market on the village green. In regards to transport, there IS transportation to and from GU and anywhere downtown. (GU and Kinney's are close, so that's the same stop.) Essentially, as someone without a car there is still access to the same places. In all likelihood though, because about 50% of the students have cars, a car is always an option as well.</p>
<p>Also, there is a TON going on in the area; it hurt me to read that "The town offered little or no opportunity for recreation, shopping, diversion from the campus social scene," as clearly admissions didn't do a good enough job telling them about the opportunities and they didn't do enough research. But for recreation, Colgate has one of the premiere Outdoor Education programs. There's anything from the ski hill with cross-country (ski/run) trails, courses and/or rental gear for mountain biking, rock climbing, canoing (lake morraine is 2mi from campus), kayaking -whitewater-, caving, tree-climbing, backpacking, ice climbing, snow camping, etc. The Adirondacks are about 4 hours away and we take full advantage.</p>
<p>For other recreation, there are TONS of club sports (ski team to rugby, waterpolo, ultimate frisbee, triatholon club) and multiple local events - (half)marathons, triatholons, etc. ~ and this is all besides the gym. </p>
<p>In regards to the social scene, there is a lot going on - between community events or opportunities (currently Applefest/apple-picking) there are weekly events such as Open-mic night at the Barge Cafe (for poetry readings, songs, etc.), acapella concerts, trivia night at the Colgate Inn (this is extremely popular amongst students AND faculty!), etc. to name just a few.</p>
<p>Overall, students are so active and busy that they really don't have time to shop, but there is an outdoors store as well as a few different boutiques in town, and the occasional trip to Syracuse or New Hartford malls are an option as well. - The Center for Leadership and Student Involvement (CLSI) DOES organize trips every semester to Syracuse, and specifically to the mall.</p>
<p>Lastly, I would like to comment on the D1 atmosphere and the way that shapes the student body. Although Colgate is D1, it is part of the Patriot league, and only very recently began giving a few athletic scholarships. As a student in the classroom, it is honestly extremely difficult to tell which of my peers are varsity athletes, except that they might be wearing varsity paraphernalia. </p>
<p>*<em>Varsity athletes make up almost 1/5th of the student body. It would be impossible for Colgate to have lower academic standards for athletes and still post such high academic admissions scores. Last Spring the average Varsity GPA was a 3.2. *</em></p>
<p>Because we're in the Patriot League, we get the best of the D1 without compromising academics. Students are truly STUDENT-athletes, and yet we encompass the "ra-ra" enthusiasm as a large D1 school. As an ex-varsity athlete, YES, it takes up a LOT of time; but I think the average Colgate student surpasses the time commitment of a varsity athlete through their own, multiple extracurricular commitments. Personally, I think you're fooling yourself if you think the athletic program is as independently opperated/influential as it might be at a large Pac-10/Big East school, and you're cheating Colgate of the academic experience purely based on the assumptions and stereotypes of "D1". - It actually sounds like Colgate may be the balance of academics and athletics you are looking for or would approve of.</p>
<p>I hope this helps gives a "deeper" or just different side of Colgate. Colgate is filled with incredible opportunities, not all are evident in a quick campus visit!</p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>
<p>Great information. I wish I could go to Colgate myself.</p>
<p>D3 can't be offered admittance based on athletics and have no scholarshps.</p>
<p>What are the benefits of being Div 1 vs Div 3? </p>
<p>My son has always played D1, but isn't sure he wants to in college.</p>
<p>I would think at some schools that are Div. 1, admittance standards are lowered for some sports. I just hate to see academically superior schools like Colgate being negatively impacted. Maybe this doesn't apply to Colgate. </p>
<p>Truly everything I've ever heard about Colgate has been positive, if you don't mind the location (and my son does not).</p>
<p>Bowdoin is definitely more selective, but the academic differences between Colgate and Bowdoin are probably miniscule. Many people say that a more select student body results in a more talented peer group for the students and enhances the college experience. That being said, I doubt the academics are very different between Colgate and Bowdoin, both of which are "top 20" liberal arts colleges. </p>
<p>Colgate's a bit snarky when it comes to providing admissions data, but its admitted (as opposed to enrolled) students' SAT ranges (25-75 percentiles) for this year's freshman are published as 660-740 for verbal and 670-760 for math. Its acceptance rate was 23.9%.</p>
<p>Bowdoin's SAT ranges for enrolled students (2007) were 650-740 verbal and 650-730 math. These are likely higher than Colgate's by 20-30? points. Bowdoin's acceptance rate was just a hair under 19%. As a comparison, Williams' (ranked "#1" last year) rate was 18.4%. Bowdoin's tough to get into.</p>
<p>I don't know Bowdoin; I never been there. D is a senior at Colgate and is an English major. She has liked most of her professors, she works hard, and she knows a lot of smart kids. I think Colgate is a great school, especially for those who may not make it into - or be interested in applying to - the most selective schools in the country. That being said, it's no cakewalk to be accepted or to get good grades. Our experience with Colgate's financial aid has been very positive. D's scores, etc., put her in the top of Colgate's applicant pool. </p>
<p>It is true that in some sports (I'll guess football and hockey), the athletes' SAT scores are probably significantly lower than the school's average. I don't believe that negatively affects the college as a whole.</p>
<p>^^Bowdin is also Test Optional, so it's reported test numbers are also suspect.</p>
<p>Athletes are certainly admitted to D3 schools because of their athletic prowess; lots of threads here on CC about this, although there are no scholarships other than those for financial need. Admissions standards are lower at many "academically superior" D3 schools for talented athletes, including Bowdoin. </p>
<p>There's no benefit per se of D1 vs D3, but my son was interested in having the option of watching relatively big time sports. </p>
<p>I'm not sure I understand the reference to playing D1 sports in high school. There wouldn't necessarily be a correlation between playing high school athletics at a very large high school and the ability to play D1 sports in college.</p>
<p>I've seen that about 75-80% of students at Bowdoin submit SAT scores, so if the other 20-25% are at the 25%ile level (probably a generous assumption), the overall median SAT of all students at Bowdoin would be ~ 1365. </p>
<p>Generally, I've seen the difference between enrolled and accepted students' avg SAT at Colgate to be ~ 40-50 points historically. So, this would mean an enrolled avg SAT at Colgate for this year's freshman class of ~ 1370; right about the same level as Bowdoin. </p>
<p>On average though, I would say Bowdoin is a little harder to get into because their class is only 2/3 as large and they appear to consistently have a somewhat higher yield than Colgate.</p>
<p>I would also reiterate what I think Jrpar alluded to above. Don't kid yourself (even at the D-III level) that admissions standards for athletes at Bowdoin to be the same as what they are for the other students.</p>