Colgate's geology program

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Abercio,</p>

<p>Here’s a thought, a potentially useful thought, depending on how you roll it out at the next level…</p>

<p>I have an uncle through marriage who wanted to attend a US university during WWII and left Europe in a convoy to do so. Shortly thereafter his mother was concerned about his welfare and in particular that he might marry an American. So what did she do? She moved across too and found a flat near the school. She quickly learned she could wear trousers - no more wool stockings and skirts- and play bridge outside the home! On the other hand she also succeeded in her primary quest and after 4 years they moved back. Quite remarkable, don’t you think?</p>

<p>Now what does this have to do with you and your (rather not unusual) circumstances? I hope you can display to your parents the trade offs between these large research universities and top LACs via websites etc, until you might hopefully visit a set of US schools, and portray your choices for what they deliver to you. That’s to you and your personal needs, and not some generalised, semi-grounded and/or superficial idea of what your next 4 years might be about. And maybe your parents will want to pose their particular questions to individual professors? Just as you would reach out to current students from China. All via the website. Sounds smart to me. And by the way, that personalisation IS a hallmark of Colgate and where its faculty and staff resources are always directed!</p>

<p>As you appreciate, LACs are extremely valuable in their emphasis on the undergraduate. For me the required common Core curriculum across the Divisions were some of my most enduring courses. So it’s up to you to make the case. After all, and in your context, LACs of the caliber and mission of Colgate are best appreciated by current and recently enrolled students from China and elsewhere in Asia (and their parents), given the strong popularity of top LACs of the past decade or so. And you appreciate what LACs offer while they might not have that familiarity as of yet.</p>

<p>Best of luck applying diligence and determination in your efforts!</p>

<p>Markham,</p>

<p>Your story is impressive. In the past year I have gradually convinced my parents that LACs’ education is by no means worse than that of big research institutions. Now my parents can also appreciate the value of LACs’ undergraduate education. I’m lucky enough to have parents who can think out-of-the-box. (Most students in my school and their parents have no ideas of LACs) Two days ago I received a viewbook from Colgate and was impressed my its magnificent campus. I hope I can actually go and see these schools before I apply them.</p>

<p>May I ask, if you don’t mind, are you a alumni of Colgate?</p>

<p>Thanks for your help,</p>

<p>abercio, Could you please clarify your financial situation? Are you able to pay full tuition or do you need to receive financial aid? This will made a huge difference in your list, especially as an international.</p>

<p>Colgate is a fine college. I actually have a close friend who is a graduate (some time back) and who is an oil and gas exploration professional. </p>

<p>If you particularly like the ambiance of Colgate you might also look at some of the other northeast LACs like Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury and Williams. All have good reputations with graduate school admissions.</p>

<p>All top rated LACs are especially competitive for internationals. Your SAT score is within range, but your grades and other subjective factors like extracurriculars, life experience, recommendations and essays will also be considered, more so at smaller colleges.</p>

<p>If you can pay full tuition, you should consider applying Early Decision to your top choice.</p>

<p>momrath, My parents are able to pay full tuition, but they are not rich, which means that full tuition will cost most of their deposit. My parents want me to go to a college as good as possible, so they really don’t care too much about financial aid. However, financial aid will be a great compensation for my family.</p>

<p>I do consider applying Early Desicion to Colgate, but I am hestitating about whether applying financial aid or not. It’s great to hear that your friend is a graduate from there. If this is the case, do you know something particular about Colgate’s geology program?</p>

<p>I considered Hamilton but later I found its geology program was not as good as that of Colgate (maybe it is, the only souce I have is their websites). As far as other notheast LACs are concerned, I will take a look at them. </p>

<p>Thank you a lot!</p>

<p>Abercio, also look into the Society of Exploration Geophysicists (SEG), an international professional group. I know at my school SEG and AAPG (American Association of Petroleum Geologists) frequently arrange trips to various drilling sites in the state of Oklahoma where student members meet with the geologists and executives who helped find/ plan the drilling operations. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that in geology a masters degree is extremely helpful, and for an international student hoping to work in the US all but essential. I don’t know how the situation is in Australia, China, or Canada. </p>

<p>Is it wise to concentrate so much on the size of the college? My guess is that generally, geology departments are relatively small even at some mega-campuses? Don’t get me wrong, I’m very fond of Liberal Arts Colleges. Also, I realize that families in Asia tend to place great emphasis on perceptions of “prestige” when they think of U.S. colleges. But such perceptions can be very misplaced in terms of reputation for student outcomes. In the U.S. we acknowledge that not everyone can or should attend the U of California, Harvard or Yale. We have many excellent colleges in the U.S., including LACs and even large 'Land Grant" universities. My guess is that international companies such as BP, Anaconda Copper, Barrick Gold etc., which have geological-mineral etc. business interests in Asia hire from a variety of universities, many not particularly “prestigious.”</p>

<p>Abercio,</p>

<p>As a male, I am an alumnus of Colgate. A female is an alumna but together we are alumni.</p>

<p>So much from me for now. I wish you all the best.</p>

<p>Go 'gate!</p>

<p>Thanks @markham @LakeWashington @ whenhen. I do plan to get a master’s degree in geology, which is part of my reason to choose a top LAC.</p>

<p>Best wishes to all of you guys,</p>

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</p>

<p>Not all LACs have common core curricula, or even breadth requirements.</p>

<p>Of course, interest in a less common major means that the OP needs to carefully check the departmental strength of each school under consideration (LAC or otherwise).</p>

<p>OP, you write English really well. Colgate is every bit as beautiful as the photographs suggest. Probably the prettiest campus we visited. The town itself is not so pretty, but you won’t be going too far into town. There are a couple nice restaurants, some student housing in town but right across from the campus. The town is quite rural. As one posters replied when I mentioned Colgate’s isolation: “but it’s an hour and a half from Utica!” </p>

<p>Oh dear!</p>

<p>If it were to take 90 minutes I would imagine the poster stopped for lunch or maybe took a detour through Syracuse. No, Hamilton to Utica is 27 miles by car in 40 minutes. Check out mapquest.</p>

<p>

Yes, I agree. Since geology is a pretty unpopular major, geology classes are often very small even at really big universities. Here at UCLA, for example, most geology classes have fewer than 20 students, and a lot of them are smaller than that. You can get the benefits of a small LAC classroom with the breadth of courses of a research university, the best of both worlds. </p>

<p>At my undergrad (6500 undergraduates), geology classes typically had 5-10 people. You can’t get much more LAC-like than that! In fact, faculty members outnumbered geology majors. </p>

<p>Of course, LACs will always be different in having a much smaller social scene, thus feeling tight-knit and cozy for those who like small schools and restrictive for those who don’t. Also, the lack of graduate students is a plus for a student who’s less aggressive about pursuing research opportunities. </p>

<p>(As ucbalumnus so frequently points out, however, a prospective student should always check a college’s schedule of classes to get an accurate idea of class sizes.)</p>

<p>Thank you. @‌jkeil911</p>

<p>@ucbalumnus‌. I do check the course offerings and departmental strength of every school I am going to apply to. Colgate has a focus on mineralogy and petrology. It also has several labs for geochemistry. Many of the department’s professors have reseach interest in mineralogy. However, after looking at several top 20 LACs’ geology sites I found that it is a common pattern that they do not mention a lot about geophysics. I guess it is due to their lack of large instruments to do research on geophysics (just my guess)? Maybe in large research institutions students have more accesses to geophysics.</p>

<p>Since my parents want me to have a comprehensive liberal arts education, I would like to choose LACs which are strong at geology despite the fact that they can not be paralleled with some large universitys in terms of investment in instruments. I wonder is it a problem if in undergraduate level I don’t cover a lot about geophysics, because really I want to be an exploration geologist in the future.</p>

<p>Another question I have is, in lagre universities, how competitive it is to get chances of doing reseach? (for undergraduates) @waeblersrule I think UCLA is pretty good at geology, and more specifically, geophysics and seismology . UCLA is one of my choices but I have to wait for a long time till March.</p>

<p>a re your post #24: I don’t have any direct information about the comparative merits of geology programs. Because I live in Indonesia many of my friends are Americans involved in the extraction industry – both oil and gas and minerals. My observation is that many of the oil and gas geologists and engineers (at firms like Exxon) studied in Texas and many in mining (at firms like Freeport) studied in Colorado and other western states. The Colgate guy is really the exception, but he’s had a very successful career. </p>

<p>The odd thing is that many of them have sent their kids to small LACs. If you are considering small LACs I think you have to weigh the negatives of potentially more narrow course offerings and weaker name recognition against the positives of a personalized nurturing and supportive academic environment. Small LACs have distinctive personalities, so along with academics you also have to consider campus culture.</p>

<p>Most importantly you and your parents need to evaluate your financial options carefully too. If you’re planning on getting a masters in the US, then add that to the calculation, plus your travel expense. Run a few net price calculators to get an idea of how much need based aid you might be eligible for. As an international, you may get considerably less than that. </p>

<p>@abercio‌ you may also want to look at masters degree granting universities which often lack geology graduate students, but are still sufficiently large enough to offer the full breadth of classes which round out a good geology education. I don’t have much experience with these schools, but presumably less assertive undergraduates at those schools would find it easier to work directly with professors than those at ones where geology graduate students outnumber senior undergraduates in the major. </p>

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<p>You can get a comprehensive liberal arts education at a big university as well. Both big universities and LACs run the spectrum of how much their require the student to get a comprehensive liberal arts education – but at either type of school, you can choose to get whatever you define to be a comprehensive liberal arts education by making appropriate course selections.</p>

<p>Big universities do generally have bigger frosh/soph level courses; you can check on-line class schedules to see. Geology courses may be small, but geology majors do have to take some courses shared with other majors (e.g. math, physics, chemistry) that may be large, particularly at big universities. Small frosh/soph courses led by faculty are a typical reason for looking at LACs.</p>

<p>@momrath Actually when I look up Colgate’s geology site I saw three outcomers went to Exxon. One of them was a former director of the company. </p>

<p>Soon I will have to narrow down my choices and apply to universities.
Thank you again, guys!</p>

<p>Abercio,</p>

<p>Well done.</p>

<p>Go 'gate!</p>