<p>I should also point out that he's trying to get into a part-time program (except for the final two semesters). So he would be able to continue to work, and as a contractor he could even work part time if he needed to.</p>
<p>We have committed to our kids to get them through their undergrad with no loans, We will allow them to finance their grad school education themselves, then, depending on how life looks when they are done, we might choose to pay off the loans they've incurred.</p>
<p>One thing to consider about grad school, many year ago, my H's parents did not want him to attend a grad school program and offered very little support-financially or emotionally- they thought he should not do the program, BUT their finances were considered in financial aid calculations, even though he was 25. I don't recall the details and this may have changed now, but it may be that a families situation would prevent the student from qualifying for much aid, that may affect the family attitude about helping out!</p>
<p>You guys are WAY nice. I think that, even if I were to have the money, I would not finance my kid's grad education. No way. That's when they are supposed to be adult, and part of being an adult is supporting yourself. There are SO many different ways to manage graduate education costs, and loans are only a small part of the possibilities. If my kids get loans - well then, as adults they can work and pay them off. I do hope, however, to provide both my kids with a debt-free undergraduate education. We've managed the first two years okay - here's hoping the next 5 are equally smooth sailing!</p>
<p>somemom, What you describe is exactly what happened to my nephew, & he was exactly the same age. It is not the only experience that has figured into my perspective, but his & his parents' experience has definitely affected me. I think the whole issue of parental support for grad school is much more tied to the parents' financial situation than anything else. </p>
<p>anxiousmom,The point I was making, as were others, is that the hypothetical position of having "disposable" income would give us the "luxury" of even making such a choice. I doubt that I will have such a choice. However, if I did, my decision would not be based on someone else judging that my D would be less adult or less independent to be so graced or so fortunate. We are all entitled to our own values & priorities.</p>
<p>..if you attend any of the schools on this list:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.needaccess.org/schools.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.needaccess.org/schools.htm</a></p>
<p>They may count at other schools as well, but they do matter for any of the schools on this list. It's nice to say the "kids" should be adults, independent of parents, but unfortunately, financial aid doesn't work that way, at least at any of the schools on this list.</p>
<p>Yes, somemom, the fact that parental income matters does affect my attitude towards helping out. I fail to see how a "kid" whose parents pay half the cost of law school, while the kid borrows the rest is less "mature" than the classmate who gets aid in the form of half grants/half loans or how the "kid" who accepts a merit scholarship to go to a less selective school is more "mature" than the "kid" whose parents pay his way at Yale, Harvard, or Stanford Law--none of which give merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Again, I'm not criticizing anyone who is unable to pay for professional school or who chooses not to do so. I'm just saying that if you have the $ and value education, it's wholly appropriate to help. I'd rather do this than pay for a new car or the down payment on a house or a big fancy wedding. Different strokes for different folks.</p>
<p>I think one has to bear in mind tho also - once the 'kid' reaches a certain income - they are no longer a 'dependant' - even tho a school may require parental info - the 'kid' has crossed that line to 'independant' status.</p>
<p>I have noticed, on the FAFSA, that the forms ask about other kids attending UNDERGRADUATE school, but not grad school. Forgive my naivete' but I have not yet begun to research grad school options- well D will research the options, but I need to understand the financial situation.</p>
<p>Is it true that if D1 attends grade school, our income and assets may be factored into her finaid calculation? Yet, the EFC for younger sibs in university will not include her as a student? Not very consistent, is it?</p>
<p>As I recall, my H was unable to get enough in loans to pay for grad school without his parents assistance and it was not a part time program, so they really had that power of the direction of his life, since they did not support his preference.</p>
<p>somemom:</p>
<p>It depends on the school. Until fairly recently, Harvard did ask for parental income and expected parents to contribute to their children's graduate education. I know one person who returned to school when in his 50s and was asked about his parents' income! Harvard decided to compete with Princeton in providing full funding so it is no longer asking for parental income. I imagine, however, that many other schools still do.</p>
<p>I'm hardly an expert at this, but this is my understanding. FAFSA is a federal form. It is the basis of a determination as to how much a family can borrow using federal student loans. </p>
<p>It is ALSO used by some colleges, notably public schools, to determine financial aid for UNDERGRADUATES. However, many private colleges, especially the more selective ones, also use PROFILE. PROFILE requires additional information, including, for example, the income and assets of non-custodial parents. </p>
<p>ANY grad or professional student can apply for federal student loans based solely on his/her own income and assets and those of a SPOUSE. Parental income/assets do not count. </p>
<p>However, SOME law, biz, and med schools DO count parental income/assets in determining whether you qualify for need-based financial aid. (Just, FYI that definitely includes Harvard Law, Marite). It does NOT matter that the student has been out of school and working for a few years if the student is not yet 27 or 28. Others don't ask about parental income/assets but most of those which don't do not offer need-based financial aid to ANYONE. It's all either loans and/or merit scholarships. </p>
<p>In law, the schools that do offer financial aid based on NEED also tend to be the ones with good loan forgiveness programs. (That means that if you take a lower paying public interest job, you won't be expected to pay back all the loans.) </p>
<p>The actual cost of attending a top law, biz, or med school, including "room and board" is in excess of $55,000 per year. You can NOT get low interest federal student loans for all of that amount. It's also pretty darn hard to earn it as you go along. Yes, during your 2L summer, you may be able to earn as much as $30,000, but you will have to pay taxes on that amount and if you don't happen to live in an area with law firms paying that amount, you'll also have to find a place to stay. In most cases, you will not earn that much money the summer before entering law school or after the first year of law school. When you finish law school, you will probably spend the summer preparing for the bar exam. </p>
<pre><code>Thus, to fund the cost of law school, you MAY have to borrow additional money at a higher rate than that available for "student" loans.
</code></pre>
<p>Sometimes, working a few years backfires because it changes FAFSA and thus the amount of $ the student is eligible to borrow. At some schools, there are also special programs for living stipends while you work for public interest organizations during summers which are not open to students if their OWN or a SPOUSE's income makes them ineligible. </p>
<p>Students in Ph.D. programs in arts and sciences at top schools often do not have to pay tuition at all and receive a living stipend. This may vary by field, with those in math and science often being paid more than those in the humanities. But, in many fields, the "normal" time to receive a Ph.D. is seven years. The stipend may only be payable during the academic year. </p>
<p>In any event, FAFSA does not count your income for determining how much you son or daughter can borrow for grad OR professional school. In terms of borrowing under the federal student loan programs, your income is irrelevant. So, it doesn't affect how much you can borrow for your kids who are still undergraduates. What is on FAFSA does NOT necessarily determine how much need-based financial aid your S or D will get EITHER as an undergrad or grad/professional school. The schools may set their own policies. </p>
<p>Many law, biz, and med schools have policies that limit need-based financial aid to students from lower-income families. If parents don't pay, the "kids" can borrow, but not at the low interest rates you're used to thinking about for "student loans." </p>
<p>That's the general gist of it, though I'm far from an expert.</p>
<p>Blossom-
Thanks for the suggestion about Columbia. Bummer is, my s drew a horizontal line across the center of the US and said "warm weather". He won't look at the NE schools. Sigh.
dig-
glad you like the idea(s). Your s. sounds like he is doing quite well, and should be in a sound financial position what you are describing. Your gifts will be meaningful to him. If there is any concern that your "gifting" him $$ will mess up his loan applications, just buy his books or pay his gas or something.
the whole FAFSA thing has be baffled,and I find it frustrating that everything we are shelling out for private HS for younger s. doesn't amount to a hil o' beans, and because our kids are 4 yrs apart, as soon as one leaves college, the other one enters. We never get the break on the FAFSA calculation, even thoughthe $$$$$$ streams out of our pockets just the same. :(</p>
<p><a href="Just,%20FYI%20that%20definitely%20includes%20Harvard%20Law,%20Marite">quote</a>.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I should have specified the Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Funding is now provided to all admitted students, regardless of parental or personal income; in this sense, it is totally merit-based.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Students in Ph.D. programs in arts and sciences at top schools often do not have to pay tuition at all and receive a living stipend. This may vary by field, with those in math and science often being paid more than those in the humanities. But, in many fields, the "normal" time to receive a Ph.D. is seven years. The stipend may only be payable during the academic year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Princeton provides full funding for five years and expects its students to graduate within that time. Harvard provides funding for 4 years, but with a mix of full funding for the first two years, and teaching for the next two; then some students get dissertation writing fellowships. These are supposed to be the most generous schools in terms of funding. This only applies to GSAS in the social sciences and humanities. In the sciences, grad students are usually supported through soft money procured by the prof heading their research group; some teach but most work as research assistants.</p>
<p>My parents paid for the bulk of my undergraduate education, minus the grants, scholarships, and a few small federal loans. My parents always said they would pay for our undergraduate education but expected my siblings and I to pay for anything further. I can see why some parents are eager to help, especially for professional programsl, but personally, I think forcing me to pay for my education helped me to consider my goals more clearly. It also makes me more invested and motivated me to seek out fellowships for grad school. When I applied for colleges, although the schools were mine, my parents still went on school visits, gave their opinion, helped me with applications, etc. For grad school, it was my decision from start to finish. I just think having yourself pay makes you more committed in general, which is more key in grad school since the degrees aren't as widely applicable as an undergrad degree.</p>
<p>
Dig:
I fall into the camp of doing everything possible, including loans and delaying retirement, for undergraduate education at the best school my sons can get into. When it comes to grad or professional school, though, I look at it a little differently. I hope both kids pursue graduate education, but we'll be repaying their undergrad loans for many years, so they are on their own to a large extent. And I honestly don't really feel bad about that -- my husband and I worked our way through college, with a little gas money on occasion from parents. We were able to do that because the COA at a UC was so low at the time, and we don't expect our kids to do that. But if they choose to pursue a PhD in a science, as others have said, there are ways to do that. If they pursue law or medicine, then they'll just have to take out the loans and repay them when they are earning the 'big bucks.' It might make them consider carefully whether that's a path they really want to take, and I do believe in people having a stake in their own education.</p>
<p>Just jumping on board to agree w/the 'paying your own grad way' idea!</p>
<p>My parents paid for <em>everything</em> for my (private) undergraduate. I was basically clueless about the money involved, their sacrifice, everything. When I went to grad school (after a 6 year break) of course I'd never even <em>dream</em> of having them pay anything. They would have tried (had they been able) but there's just something about being a 'grown up' at that point that made me resistent to the idea (even tho I had to borrow every penny!!). Coincidently, I was a 1000 % more motivated, career-wise, after grad school...!</p>
<p>Of course every person (and parent/child relationship) is different!!!</p>
<p>It would make a great difference to me whether my student was going directly (or almost directly) to grad/prof school, or whether he/she had been graduated for several years and was established in adult life. So my kids had better decide pretty promptly if they intend any further studies!</p>
<p>I paid my own freight in grad school as well, with student loans, some research traineeship funding, and low level jobs at the VA as part of the training program. I paid all my basic expenses (apt, utilities, auto maintenance, etc) but my parents still helped with airline tickets home for the holidays, and assistance when I needed to buy a new car. I believe I paid them back for the $$ they contributed to the car. They had some stock in my name that we sold to help pay for the car, and I was given a nice, unexpected surprise. The'd had a bunch of Federal Savings Bonds in my name that they gave to me at graduation to help set up my new life whe I entered the professional world. I still remember how I felt when they pulled those out 25 yrs ago. Just like Dig did when his parents gave him $500. It is a nice experience.</p>