College Admissions Are Out of Control

Applying to College
1

<p>Where once, students applied to 3-4 schools, now they apply to ten, increasing the burdent of visits, applications, recommendations etc.</p>

<p>The SAT scores have been calibrated up and grades inflated, putting more students in the top category academically. Hence, they have to disdtnguish themselves by consuming their childhoods -- yes, these are still children in high school -- with extracurricular activities. The colleges' need to deemphasize quantifiable merit and make admissions more subjective and unaccountable in order to pursue racial/ethnic preferences also increases this emphasis on the "whole person" and activities. </p>

<p>In order to distinguish themselves, the kids I know are taking numerous AP tests in 11th grade now, along with SAT I's, SAT II's and the ACT. When not doing that they are volunteering in cancer centers blah blah blah. They are becoming calculated drones who lack the real life experience of having worked at Dairy Queen. The author of the next great American novel will have worked at Dairy Queen for the summer, not gone to an enrichment camp, started her own soup kitchen and taken five AP tests at the end of 11th grade.</p>

<p>Let kids be kids. It will make them better adults.</p>

<p>The self important pointy headed geeks who run college admissions have it in their power, to a substantial degree, to put a stop to much of this. These APs and ECs are like an arms race between applicants, and it is up to those who determine the criteria for admission to impose a little arms control.</p>

2

<p>Having trouble getting into a good school Willow?</p>

3

<p>I agree. Admissions has gotten way out of control. At my d HS there will be double digit valedictorians ! How crazy is that ! Let kids be kids. </p>

<p>Our family is having the time of our lives with our kids on the old fashioned family trips that are a hoot. We even let our kids sleep in on Saturdays. They are happy and well adjusted and there is no drama. </p>

<p>Yes, our junior d has not invented anything and she did not carry the olympic torch or invent a new language...But she has been raised by parents 'present' in her life and she understands balance. HS is a small burp in her life that she should have fond memories of before she goes off to college and then into the world and has to work for the next 50 years ! </p>

<p>She has been raised by successful entrapenuers who have taught her how to grab the gusto in life and still be accountable w/o having a breakdown at the age of 17.</p>

4

<p>This may be true among some subset of the top students who are fretting over getting into the top institutions. However, a lot of students apply to a few schools and make their choice without loads of angst. I think it's a mistake to project the stories we hear on CC to be a nationwide crisis.</p>

5

<p>Why put the blame at the doorstep of the elite school's adcoms? Are they behind the 300-400% upsurge in applications to their schools? C'mon -- it's our ultra competitive society that venerates the degree from HYPS et. al.</p>

<p>I'm not saying the ultra elites are blameless but in a big sense, their product has been the same for many, many years. The recent chaos is due to OUR sense that their product is somehow more valuable now than 15 yrs ago.</p>

<p>And like the other poster said, only those who want to dip into the HYPS chase are "suffering" The huge majority of American seniors aren't affected frankly.</p>

6

<p>The current "arms race" doesn't exist because some "self important pointy headed geeks" want it to. It exists because the demand for spots at the high-end schools far exceeds the supply.</p>

<p>When schools have 10 or more highly-qualified applicants for every slot, they need to use <em>something</em> to make the choice -- something to distinguish between the marvelous and the merely highly-talented. For better or worse, AP courses have become part of that equation, since they are evidence of ability and motivation to complete the most rigorous course work available.</p>

<p>It's easy to just say "stop" to the current process, but it's much more difficult to propose a workable alternative that will operate in a free society where the demand is far greater than supply.</p>

7

<p>Let the kids be the kind of kids they want to be. Any kid who doesn't want to take an AP course doesn't have to: it's not mandatory for high school graduation. But I know young people who are bored silly by their wimpy high schools and want to prepare themselves for a more academic environment after high school. Never lift yourself up by pushing someone else down.</p>

8

<p>My childhood was in no way consumed...I played soccer in high school because I played all my life, and love it. I was on my city's recreation board because my dad had been, and I wanted to be part of the decision making concerning the soccer fields and parks I had grown up in. I took all the AP classes offered, and it didn't take any time out of my social life. I had a job the past two summers. I didn't do anything extraordinary, aside from being a good student and an active person.</p>

<p>And yet, I got into an excellent school. </p>

<p>I think the problem is counselors and college guiding services that think you HAVE to display some sort of one-in-a-million talent or ability to get into a great school. Stupid parents force their kids to do anything and everything because they read an article in the Times about how admissions is getting more and more competitive. Prep school kids become obsessed with numbers and scores and community service and research because they NEED to go to Harvard or Yale or Stanford and anything else is a disappointment.</p>

<p>I agree, in some places, it is out of control. And excessively stupid. I got here doing whatever it was that I wanted to do. Kids should be left to their own devices, do things that interest them, take the classes they want to take, and not have their lives run by this one decision.</p>

9

<p>I agree there is something wrong with this rat race.....my d gets stress out at HS everybody is too competitive...anything less than A is a failure...balance would be nice if college wouldn't be that competitive now days...</p>

10

<p>People just need to readjust their attitudes. The fact that college admission--to a very small, select group of Universities and Colleges that probably number less than 20--is extremely selective is more a product of demographics than anything else. There are simply a lot more people now than there were 40 years ago, and basically the same number of spots at those 20 über-selective schools. My parents are Princeton grads who applied to college 38 years ago. I didn't get into Princeton this year. Am I not as smart, not as accomplished as they were? No, not in the least--I am probably more qualified than my father was. Are my parents not smart enough to attend Princeton today? Certainly not--they are every bit smart enough. But could they get in today? I seriously doubt it. That's just the way that demographics have made it. </p>

<p>But this rat race that we speak of is purely opt in/opt out. I pretty much opted out--most on CC would view my extras as embarassingly average, and those extras did hold me back--at Yale and Princeton! Schools as selective as Brown and Columbia saw something to like in me, enough so to waitlist me (again...very average extras). And I got into each of the 5 other schools I applied to, some with money, some with honors programs. I'm going to Wellesley, the #4 LAC. Moral of the story: the kind of students who would have been welcomed into HYP, etc. 30+ years ago do have to adjust their sights down a bit--to the top 20 Uni's and many of the top LAC's! Not much of a sacrifice, in my opinion.</p>

11

<p>the strange thing about the application process is that is has become this giant double-edged marketing scheme. colleges market themselves to us. they start flooding our mailboxes with literature when we're 15 years old. they try to convince us that their one specific college is the only place where we could be happy, successful, the place where we belong. sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it works all too well--HPYMS, etc.</p>

<p>THEN, we're supposed to turn around and market ourselves to them. it can't be based on numbers because there are too many qualified people. so instead it's about diversity, brilliance, uniqueness, passion. it's about personality.</p>

<p>but no matter how great of a writer you are, how can you effectively communicate your entire persona on a college application? and no matter how fair adcoms try to be, how can they effectively judge two strangers against each other?</p>

<p>the whole thing is just strange to me. but colleges won't change-- this isn't all about great personalities and great communities. this is about business marketing. WE need to change the way we obsess over it because things just CAN'T change until the graduating class population declines.</p>

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<p>advantagious - could you tell us what where your very average EC?</p>

13

<p>The weirdest thing about college admissions is the fact that your whole persona is judged. The fact that it's based on your personality makes rejections worse. Instead of the pure numbers game of, well I only had xx on my SAT, you feel like you personally aren't good enough. You put out what you've done for 3 years or your whole life, and it isn't good enough. If that isn't a blow to the ego, I don't know what is.</p>

14

<p>People often misrepresent themselves by doing things they don't REALLY enjoy doing. They just feel that they HAVE to in order to get into a prestigious university. That's what sucks. And it's not like a lot of applicants can help it either. The system is pretty flawed...</p>

15

<p>Not just 10 colleges but more :)</p>

16

<p>Well, of course there is always a qualifier :)--average for CC/average for Ivies. </p>

<p>Youth & Government: 6 hrs/wk, 20 wks/yr; 10-11
Clarinet/Bass Clarinet: 15 hrs/wk, 45 wks/yr; 9-12 (Chamber captain)
German Club: 2 hrs/wk, 25 wks/yr; 10-12 (Pres., VP & Treas.)
Swim team: 20 hrs/wk, 12 wks/yr; 9-10
German tutoring: 2 hr/wk; 20 wks/yr 11
Youth representitive on city museum board: 2 hrs/wk, 5 wks/yr; 12 </p>

<p>National Merit Finalist (12)
National German Honor Society (10-12)
AP Scholar with Honor (12)
German National Exam, 90th percentile, AATG Honorable Mention (10)
German National Exam, 87th percentile (11)
German Consulate Award (school award)
Illinois State Scholar (12)
Most Valuable Lobbyist (10)
Division I solo (10,11)
Academic Letter, every semester
Local version of National Honor Society (12)</p>

<p>This might not look sooo bad, and it's not, but for the schools that I aspired to (Yale, Princeton, Brown, and Columbia), these were probably only average extras. My leadership positions were small and unexceptional; my activities were mostly run of the mill; I completed basically no community service; and I was a standout in nothing. My academic awards were strong--just as my academics were--but my ec's were pretty blah, and it doesn't take much to drop out of the top 7% or so of an already very strong pool. I definitely did push myself (I am a pretty introverted person naturally, so joining is not a strong point), but I never did anything I didn't want to, and to be honest a did a lot more relaxing than anything else :). </p>

<p>Point being, exceptional stats (770 average SAT score, top 2% rank, 4 AP scores of 5), great (I'm guessing) recs, and well-written essays still have clout, and I was waitlisted at Brown and Columbia and accepted to Wellesley, Carleton, NYU (scholarship + honors program), BC (honors program), and Case Western Reserve (LARGE scholarship...$27000/yr). So obviously, there are still great places willing to take Yale and Princeton's castoffs!!</p>

17

<p>I mostly agree with the OP - high school has become waaaay too stressful and competitive. After four years of endless studying and worrying about having outstanding EC's, I'm exhausted. I don't have many fond memories of high school, simply because it was neverending hard hard work towards the HYPsmoighodfhgwhatever :) goal. True, it paid off - I am going to my dream school. But did I get a childhood during those years? Not really. I am actually looking forward to picking it up again in college: sure, it will be hard work, but for the first time in many years I'll be learning things I find fascinating for the sake of learning itself, not for the sake of looking stellar to all those tough admissions conselors. Plus, no more competing to be number one, since everyone's number one anyway... SUCH a relief. Yay college! Yay nine days of school left!</p>

18

<p>True, true, you don't HAVE to aspire to go to a competative college. But say you are a 15 year old with superior intelligence and would find it stimulating to go to college with with other very smart academically inclined kids. Why should you have to take not two but seven AP courses (starting early!) and consume your life with ECs to do so? Should that be necessary to go to a school for which you have the median scores?</p>

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<p>What do you suggest we do about it? Cause in all honesty, the HYP craze isn't going to go anywhere.</p>

20

<p>Willow: what is the alternative that you suggest for the admissions officers? Let's say you and I are in their shoes. We get 10 apps for every open slot in our freshman class. What can we do? Not accept more than 2 AP scores? Not look at transcripts?</p>

<p>There are simply market forces at work here. Too much demand for too few slots (HYPS et al freshman slots). Any sort of rationing would be out of the question. </p>

<p>The chaos is bad -- I agree wholeheartedly. And I voice the opinion that the USNWR rankings fuel the frenzy. When I give info sessions for my alma mater (one of the HYPS), I get even anxious ninth-grade parents "wanting the inside scoop" because THEY see the >10% acceptance rate.</p>

<p>For me and my family, I'm opting out. If either of my girls want to go that route, I'll do all in my power to assist them (c'mon legacy boost! LOL). But if they don't, choose a more standard college life and they're happy about it, that's all I can ask.</p>