@privatebanker Thank you! Totally agree. One of my all-time favorite posts.
@privatebanker I also love your post and you are right…and you actually CAN compare restaurants, but you are right that it’s kind of impossible to compare colleges because most people only end up at one, maybe two.
At the end of the day, what makes us so sure someone will do “better” coming out of Yale vs. Northeastern??? There is not only the big fish, small pond theory, but also just so many variables that may make the less competitive (but still outstanding!) school in the end create more opportunities for a potential student. As parents, we need to stop looking at schools like Northeastern and BU as consolation prizes to schools like Harvard and MIT. These schools still have a lot to offer and the Ivy rejects that end up at these schools can still receive amazing educations and do extremely well in life.
My husband and I had this philosophy when we shopped for our “town” before we started a family. We used to live in the town next door. The town we left was “better”…i.e., known for better schools, higher priced real estate, wealthier neighbors. We wanted good schools but we also didn’t want nutty schools. (People thought we were nuts for moving, by the way!)
So we ended up in a town more like an Outback, to use your example. The schools were “good enough”…most kids are still four year college bound, but there isn’t this insane pressure either. As a result, my kids were all highly ranked and did extremely well academically AND athletically (my oldest got the NJSIAA Scholar Athlete…something she NEVER would have received in the town we left…my other daughter was Valedictorian - Ditto!). They shined. I have no doubt this is what helped them get into better colleges than some of their peers from the next town over that had a harder time differentiating themselves. I think the same theory can apply to finding the “best” college. (And for the record, both of my girls in the end chose to attend lower ranked colleges than some of the higher ranked colleges they were admitted to, and we have no regrets.)
So yes, the quest for the “best” college in the end might be misguided if we rely on stats too much.
American University
https://www.theeagleonline.com/article/2019/04/american-university-accepts-35-percent-of-applicants-for-the-class-of-2023
The 3 SAT subject tests is what took Georgetown out of contention for my daughter, so the weeding out worked there.
On northeastern…my sister was offered a full ride by them, about 7 years or so back…without her having applied. They actually rang her up and told her her stats would get a full ride if she wanted to go there. It seems kind of bizarre? Judging by recent results threads, they no longer need to do things like that.
Interesting re AU link above - they raised admissions rate, expect lower yield:
“We increased the number of students who we admitted this year because we know that those students will have many options in terms of places where they’ve been admitted to,” Felder said.
However, the class size is expected to remain the same, Felder said. The admissions office received 18,500 applications and admitted 6,515 students.”
Northeastern should become a lot more competitive. It admits very few through ED (only 15% of its class), but this will increase over time as it gets more ED applicants. For the class of 2022, it received only ~1100 ED applications and admitted 454 for a class enrollment of >3000.
@privatebanker other rankings systems talk about you don’t judge a meal by how much the ingredients cost to make the meal but by how it tastes when finished. Their point that USNWR adds value to things that absolutely cost more for the experience but may not add educational or job value. In the alternative rankings, some small LACs and flagship publics do a lot better and a school like Chicago does worse…
are there any stats on Fordham? I’m not sure if they’re released because I don’t think I saw them last year, either.
@eyestrain the website still has last year’s. 46%
https://www.fordham.edu/info/24633/admission_facts
scroll down to “applications for fall 2018 entry”
Posting @TomSrOfBoston info from the Northeastern board:
"The Fall 2018 acceptance rate was ** 19%. ** The yield was 23%.
The ED acceptance rate was 41%.
The entering class size was 2746 students. It is just shy of the traditional target of 2800 and was likely kept low due to the over enrolment in 2017.
The freshman retention rate was 97% and 6 year graduation rate was 88%.
The transfer acceptance rate was 31% and transfer yield was 41%.
Total full time enrolment undergraduate and graduate was 26,290 students"
Northeastern has been doing so well and I think they deserve it. I think their graduates do very well and the co-op option likely has something to do with that, as students and their paying parents like the idea of graduating with a resume (or better yet a job!). I think this pragmatism has a lot to do with their rise over the years, and I personally think this is a great thing. It also seems like there might be an increased desire amongst students to attend schools in or near cities, another bonus for Northeastern.
I also appreciate their transparency in reporting their admissions statistics. Not all schools do that.
Wake Forest - 29% admitted from 12,500 applicants in ED and RD. 44% (of the targeted class size of 1373 presumably) was admitted in ED rounds
http://wfuogb.com/2019/04/class-of-2023-admitted-to-wake-forest/
Scripps (previously announced admit rate of 29.8%)
https://tsl.news/scripps-housing-shortage-admissions-admit-large-class-crisis/
This article says 902 admitted
William and Mary - “more than 5000” from “about 14,670”
https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2019/class-of-2023-admitted-students-to-visit-campus-saturday.php
That’s an oddly non-transparent way for W&M to report it.
Do we know a break down for Wake Forest on admission rates for ED vs. RD? Preferably ED I and ED II broken out.
Carleton College: Class of 2023 Acceptance rate of 19.2%, or 1,401 from 7,321 applicants, with 40% of acceptances to domestic students of color and international. Stated goal is to have 520 enrolled students. Of those accepted, 228 or 43.5 % were via ED1 or ED2, with 10% of ED being international and 33% domestic students of color. State that 30% of ED students are “middle-income” ($42,000 - $170,000). See the following link for Carletonian student newspaper article:
https://apps.carleton.edu/carletonian/?story_id=1820160&issue_id=1820150
Adding Carleton:
Harvard REA + RD: 1,950 out of 43,330 (4.5%)
Columbia ED + RD: ~2,171 out of 42,569 (~5.1%)
Princeton SCEA + RD: 1,895 out of 32,804 (5.8%)
Yale SCEA + RD: 2,178 out of 36,843 (5.9%)
UChicago ED + EA + RD (5.9%)
Brown ED+RD: 2,553 out of 38,674 (6.6%)
MIT EA + RD: 1410 out of 21,312 (6.6%)
Duke ED + RD: 3,064 out of 41,613 (7.4%)
Penn ED + RD: 3,345 out of 44,960 (7.4%)
Dartmouth ED + RD: 1,876 out of 23,650 (7.9%)
Rice ED + RD: 2,364 out of 27,084 (8.7%)
Swarthmore ED1 + ED2 + RD: 995 out of 11,400+ (8.7%)
Northwestern: 40,579 applicants (8.9%)
Bowdoin ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~831 out of 9,332 (~8.9%)
Johns Hopkins ED+RD: 2,950 out of 32,231 (9.2%),
Colby ED1 + ED2 + RD: 1,295 out of 13,584 (9.5%)
Cornell ED + RD: 5,183 out of >49,000 (~10.6%)
Amherst ED + RD: 1,144 out of 10,567 (10.8%)
USC: 7400 out of 67,000 (11%)
Barnard ED + RD: ~1,053 out of 9,319 (~11.3%)
Williams College ED+RD 1205 out of 9,715 (12.4%)
Tulane EA+ ED1+ED2+RD: ~5,400 out of 41,365 (~13%)
Pitzer ED1 + ED2: 532 out of ~4,409 (~13.2%)
Harvey Mudd ED1 + ED2 + RD: (13.4%)
WashU ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~3,556 out of ~25,400 (~14%)
Tufts: 22766 applicants (14.6%)
Emory (Decatur) ED1 + ED2 + RD: 4512 out of 30,017 (15%)
Notre Dame: 3,410 out of 22,220 (15.3%)
Wesleyan: 2.114 out of 13,358 (15.8%)
Middlebury ED1+ED2 +RD: 1,547 out of 9,750 (15.9%)
NYU ED1+ED2+RD: 12,307 out of ~85,000 (~16% overall, 14.4% NY Campus)
Hamilton ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~1,334 out of 8,338 (16%)
Haverford ED1+ED2+RD: 801 out of 4,968 (16.1%)
Washington and Lee - 1,115 out of 6,178 (18.0%)
BU EA+ ED1+ED2+RD: ~11,260 out of 62,210 (~18.1%)
Georgia Tech EA+RD: 6940 out of 36936 (18.8%)
Emory (Oxford) - 3432 out of ~18,000 (19%)
Carleton ED1 + ED2 + RD: 1401 of 7321 (19.2%)
Wellesley ED1+ED2+RD: ~1,298 out of 6,488 (20%)
Grinnell ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~1,696 out of 7,961 (~21.3%)
Vassar: 2098 out of 8961 (23.4%)
Lehigh ED1 + ED 2 + RD: 3716 out of 15647 (23.7%)
UVA RD+EA: 9,725 admits from 40,869 (23.8%)
Colgate ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~2422 out of 9904 (~24.5%)
Boston College EA+RD: ~9,500 out of 35,556 (26.7%)
Scripps ED1+ ED2 + RD: (29.8%)
Macalester ED1+ ED2 + RD: ~2,048 out of 6,598 (~31%)
Florida - main campus RD: 14,136 out of 41,407 (34.1%)
Mt. Holyoke ED1 + ED 2 + RD: ~1424 out of 3956 (36%)
GWU ED1+ED2+RD: ~11,000 out of 27,071 (40.6%)
Georgia EA+RD: 13,050 out of 29,314 (44.5%)
Alphabetical Order
Amherst ED+RD: 1,144 out of 10,567 (10.8%)
Barnard ED + RD: ~1,053 out of 9,319 (~11.3%)
Boston College EA+RD: ~9,500 out of 35,556 (26.7%)
Bowdoin ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~831 out of 9,332 (~8.9%)
Brown ED+RD: 2,553 out of 38,674 (6.6%)
BU EA+ ED1+ED2+RD: ~11,260 out of 62,210 (~18.1%)
Carleton ED1 + ED2 + RD: 1401 of 7321 (19.2%)
Colby ED1 + ED2 + RD: 1,295 out of 13,584 (9.5%)
Colgate ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~2422 out of 9904 (~24.5%)
Columbia ED + RD: ~2,171 out of 42,569 (~5.1%)
Cornell ED + RD: 5,183 out of >49,000 (~10.6%)
Dartmouth ED + RD: 1,876 out of 23,650 (7.9%)
Duke ED + RD: 3,064 out of 41,613 (7.4%)
Emory ED1 + ED2 + RD: 4512 out of 30,017 (15%)
Emory Oxford College- 3432 out of ~18,000 (19%)
Florida - main campus RD: 14,136 out of 41,407 (34.1%)
Georgia EA+RD: 13,050 out of 29,314 (44.5%)
Georgia Tech EA+RD: 6940 out of 36936 (18.8%)
Grinnell ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~1,696 out of 7,961 (~21.3%)
GWU ED1+ED2+RD: ~11,000 out of 27,071 (40.6%)
Hamilton ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~1,334 out of 8,338 (16%)
Harvard REA + RD: 1,950 out of 43,330 (4.5%)
Haverford ED1+ED2+RD: 801 out of 4,968 (16.1%)
Harvey Mudd ED1 + ED2 + RD: (13.4%)
Johns Hopkins ED+RD: 2,950 out of 32,231 (9.2%)
Lehigh ED1 + ED 2 + RD: 3716 out of 15647 (23.7%)
Macalester ED1+ ED2 + RD: ~2,048 out of 6,598 (~31%)
Middlebury ED1+ED2 +RD: 1,547 out of 9,750 (15.9%)
MIT EA + RD: 1410 out of 21,312 (6.6%)
Mt. Holyoke ED1 + ED 2 + RD: ~1424 out of 3956 (36%)
Northwestern: 40,579 applicants (8.9%)
Notre Dame: 3,410 out of 22,220 (15.3%)
NYU ED1+ED2+RD: 12,307 out of ~85,000 (~16% overall, 14.4% NY Campus)
Penn ED + RD: 3,345 out of 44,960 (7.4%)
Pitzer ED1 + ED2: 532 out of ~4,409 (~13.2%)
Princeton SCEA + RD: 1,895 out of 32,804 (5.8%)
Rice ED + RD: 2,364 out of 27,084 (8.7%)
Scripps ED1+ ED2 + RD: (29.8%)
Swarthmore ED1 + ED2 + RD: 995 out of 11,400+ (8.7%)
Tufts: 22766 applicants (14.6%)
Tulane EA+ ED1+ED2+RD: ~5,400 out of 41,365 (~13%)
UChicago ED + EA + RD (5.9%)
USC: 7400 out of 67,000 (11%)
UVA RD+EA: 9,725 admits from 40,869 (23.8%)
Vassar: 2098 out of 8961 (23.4%)
Washington and Lee - 1,115 out of 6,178 (18.0%)
WashU ED1 + ED2 + RD: ~3,556 out of ~25,400 (~14%)
Wellesley ED1+ED2+RD: ~1,298 out of 6,488 (20%)
Wesleyan: 2.114 out of 13,358 (15.8%)
Williams College ED+RD 1205 out of 9,715 (12.4%)
Yale SCEA + RD: 2,178 out of 36,843 (5.9%)
- Vanderbilt RD:2,088 out of 32,967 (6.3%) (RD only, not including ED1 & ED2)
https://apps.carleton.edu/carletonian/?story_id=1820160&issue_id=1820150
Carleton information is interesting. "Of those accepted, 228 or 43.5 % were via ED1 or ED2, with 10% of ED being international and 33% domestic students of color. State that 30% of ED students are “middle-income” ($42,000 - $170,000). "
Does that mean that 70% of ED students were from families with incomes above $170,000? Presumably some of those ED seats were also filled with students from families with incomes below $42,000 although perhaps not enough to be mentioned?
Looking at this list it is interesting how almost every private university now uses ED. I think the list of private colleges that use only EA (no commitment by the student) or no early decision is very tiny now:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
MIT
Stanford
Georgetown
USC
(plus all or near all public universities)
Are there other private universities that don’t use ED and don’t require any commitment by applicants before May 1 that are missing from this list? I originally had Georgia Tech on this list, but then realized it was public, not private. Maybe there are more private LAC without binding ED admissions?
Oops, I left off one private university without ED this year:
Boston College
But then I read this:
https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus-community/announcements/early-decision.html
From a January 2019 press release:
"Boston College will introduce an Early Decision program for undergraduate admission this year, in an effort to meet the growing preference of today’s high school students and enroll more “best fit” applicants for whom Boston College is a first choice, the University announced today.
The decision will result in a shift from BC’s non-binding Early Action policy to a binding Early Decision program that will include two opportunities for students to apply early to Boston College…"
I imagine USC will be the next to fall to ED.