"college after military" questions

Parents Forum
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<p>Last April, as we were talking about colleges to visit during April school vacation, our son sprang on us that he is considering going into the military after high school. This was completely out of the blue for us but according to him it is something he has been thinking about for a few years. Per that conversation he wants to enlist in the Army, infantry and go to college (engineering) when his active duty portion is completed. </p>

<p>My DH and I would much rather he go to college first and then go in the service afterwards. My DS says he doesn't want to do that because he doesn't want to be an officer (he is worried about making decisions about other peoples lives) and he doesn't think he is ready for college right now. I thought maybe he was worried that he would not be able to get in to college (He has a 3.3UW, 1st time taking SATs 1760) but he told me that he thinks he will get in but will have trouble staying in (worried that he doesn't have the time management skills, etc. won't be able to do it without Mom around to remind him of what needs to get done when) and he doesn't want us to have to pay for his college. We have told him that we have X amount per year to give him (and his sister) and anything on top of that is up to them (with FA, scholarships, jobs, loans, etc.)</p>

<p>We told him we would back off and let him do things on his own to see how he does and that we would continue the college process for now so that he would have all the info in order to make an informed decision. Over the summer we looked at some schools and he took an SAT prep course to try and improve his scores the next time he takes the SATs this fall. Feel a little like he is just humoring us and will do what he intended to all along.</p>

<p>He started his senior year this morning and I think its time to have another conversation about where we stand. Anyone have any experience with paying for college after being in the military? How much is really covered? I mean I don't think it is realistic for him to think he is going to come back home and then go off to school some where full time, is it? He's not going to want to be in a dorm with a bunch of 18 yr olds. I have visions of him either living here and maybe going to school or getting some job and trying to go to school part time. </p>

<p>Should I have him and his father go talk to a recruiter and try and get some definite answers. Will they start calling us if we reach out to them? He wants to drive tanks! How likely is it that they are going say "Sure kid! Sign here and we'll get you right into those tanks!" I assume they are going to put him where they need him not what he thinks he wants to do.</p>

<p>I have no life experience with this and so would love to get people's thoughts. thank you.</p>

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<p>One of H’s cousin’s D’s joined the National Guard. She expected to be doing stuff on weekends while going to school. Instead, she spent a year on the ground in Iraq, driving a postal truck early in the war. When she came back, her parents had to fight tooth and nail to get college funding promised to her by recruiters when she signed up. </p>

<p>Getting through college was hit or miss after that what with the psychological after-effects and all.</p>

<p>Don’t trust the recruiters, apparently they can say anything. </p>

<p>We told S and D if they were considering the military they could join the Air Force or the Navy. We also know someone with a S in the Coast Guard who is making a career of it and loves it. </p>

<p>There are several threads about kids wanting to join the military that may be helpful if you search the CC parent’s forum.</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that the military recruiter’s main job is to “sell” his/her service and thus…has an incentive to encourage your son to sign up. </p>

<p>I’d try to find family members or friends who have served in the military…especially recently to get more balanced perspectives across the positive and negative spectrum. </p>

<p>Moreover, he needs to keep in mind that once he goes off to boot camp:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>He can’t change his mind if he finds he hates being the military during his enlistment period and obligation in the inactive ready reserve…barring getting thrown out for administrative/disciplinary reasons which…</p></li>
<li><p>Will give him a dischange less than an “honorable discharge”. Any discharge below “honorable discharge” tends to be viewed negatively by employers…and it will follow your son for the rest of his life. It will also mean he forfeits some/all benefits of being in service such as the GI Bill. </p></li>
<li><p>He will be expected to carry out all lawful orders and to give respect to his superiors…no matter how much he may dislike/disagree with those orders or the manner in which he’s treated by them. </p></li>
<li><p>He’s going to be subjected to some harsh living conditions…especially out in the field.</p></li>
<li><p>He’s likely to end up in a war in which he risks serious injury, disability, or even death.</p></li>
<li><p>If his enlistment term is less than 8 years, the difference will be spent in the inactive ready reserve. If the army needs him within that period, they can “stop-loss” him and bring him back even after he’s finished his enlistment of less than 8 years. This issue was heavily covered in the newsmedia some years back.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>To get answers from some of the people who have direct knowledge of this, try: [Veterans</a> - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/veterans/]Veterans”>Veterans - College Confidential Forums)</p>

<p>Also, even if he does determine that he wants to pursue military service directly out of high school, make certain that he has a back-up plan. I know more than one person who was sent home from basic training because of previously unidentified medical issues that prevented them from completing basic, let alone their enlistments. None of them expected that at all.</p>

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<p>Sylvan and Cobrat-We have told him most of those points. Have tried the “you can always change your mind about college but you can’t change your mind about the military” route. Yes, I know the recruiters are salesmen that’s why I don’t really want to start a conversation with them. Just trying to get some real numbers about college money. My son hasn’t really told his plans to anyone else (and we didn’t either. figured it would be easier for him to change his mind if word did not get out). maybe its time to get other people involved. I would be happier if he went the Navy/Air Force route. Not happy with the whole infantry thing. I may have to start blaming video games!</p>

<p>Happymom - will check out that thread. did not know it existed.</p>

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<p>Surely he’s considered ROTC?</p>

7

<p>

I guess you mean encouraged him to since once he’s 18 he can do what he wants.</p>

<p>

A friend’s S just joined the Marines and the recruiter actually stated to him “with your grades, why are you joining the Marines?”. This kid had taken a lot of AP courses and did well in HS. This was a straight-up honest recruiter and certainly wasn’t predatory. I’m not saying they’re all straight-up like this but certainly some of them are.
I actually talked to the kid and encouraged him to go to college first, go in as an officer afterwards, ROTC, etc. but he was adamant about wanting to enlist in the Marines. More power to him; I’m sure he’ll be a good asset for them and out country. </p>

<p>OP:
If he were my S I’d probably do the same as you - encourage him to go to college first, perhaps do ROTC, then after college if he still wants to join the military then join, preferably as an officer (although that’s not a given just because one has a college degree - at least not in the Air Force).</p>

<p>If you think the possibility of not being accepted to college is part of his decision, encourage him to apply anyway, preferably to some matches and safeties and maybe even a reach or two. He should apply because even though he’s thinking Army right now, he might change his mind over the course of the year - this is a year of lots of changes in people. You never know, once he gets accepted, it might get his mindset changed in the direction of college. Worst case, he gets accepted but decides to join the Army anyway and he’s lost nothing other than app fees. He should apply to colleges regardless of his thoughts at the moment so he can be prepared and cover himself in the event he changes his mind. He should also not forget there can be external factors, like if he breaks his leg or they discover he has asthma or something and the Army ends up rejecting him.</p>

<p>If he decides to enlist anyway, he should consider what his options are in the Army besides infantry. Once he finds out all the other possible jobs he might be able to get in the Army he might decide to do a different one.</p>

<p>Decisions that affect someone’s life - this isn’t restricted to officers. Enlisted people are in this same position - there are plenty of enlisted personnel in leadership positions whose decisions could affect another’s life. And it’s not restricted to the leaders - every single person many of the military positions, including every infantry soldier, could make a decision that affects someone’s life. Think about so many of the heroic decisions and actions made by so many in wartime in supporting/saving their fellow soldiers, making decisions when entering a house in a war zone, etc. </p>

<p>There are plenty of people who serve in the military and then go to college afterwards. It’s a perfectly acceptable and not an unusual path. If this is what he chooses he should make sure he understands the exact benefits he’ll receive in this area.</p>

8

<p>

Oh the irony…</p>

<p>Perhaps if you pointed out the obvious :)</p>

9

<p>Make sure he knows that as an enlisted soldier in the infantry, every time he pulls the trigger, he will be “making a decision” that will affect another’s life.</p>

<p>If you can get him into college first, that would be great, but it is not a certainty that he would be accepted into an Officer Candidates program in the future.</p>

<p>An enlistment is usually four years and there are pretty generous G.I. Bill benefits for college later. He will get about what it costs to go to an in-state university for up to four years.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Sylan -Exactly! Have done this, but no go.</p>

<p>Glad Grad Dad - Yes, that is our intent right now, to just continue with the college application process (why we visited colleges over the summer, etc.). am hoping that when he gets accepted to some schools that he might start changing his mind. And if he still does want to go in, he will have made a decision based on as much info as possible (not based on assumptions that he can’t get in anywhere, etc.)</p>

<p>MyLB - his initial reaction to ROTC was 'No" because he doesn’t want to be an officer. I found out though that you can take the 1st 2 years of ROTC 9as long as you don’t take any money) and have no obligation. that way you can have some of the advantages of ROTC (leadership, getting in shape, etc) with out the obligations of 8 years.</p>

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<p>ConfusedMom – IF he follows his plan he would have an excellent shot at an appointment to any of the academies which would give him an excellent education at no monetary costs. He will also have a very unusual application and “leadership” advantage at other schools. HOWEVER: what Cobrat said is very real. Have a close personal friend whose son was discharged for disciplinary reason. He has been home about a year, keeps applying for jobs, they like him until they hear about the less than honorable discharge; then the potential job just melts away. Not sure how he, the whole family really, will move past this issue! It is a serious mess.</p>

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<p>I would strongly recommend going ROTC – he will be able to back out if he hates it (think there is a 2 year window).</p>

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<p>2born - do you mean go to the military academies after his enlistment is up? wouldn’t he then owe 8 mores years to pay the country back for his education? or were you just using the word academy in place of college?</p>

<p>No, we don’t any any dishonorable discharges.</p>

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<p>Sorry yes military academies and yes he would likely owe more time but if he is willing to go that route after being an enlisted man he is likely a “lifer” anyway and those who have served as an enlisted man prior to being in the academy are accorded a great deal of respect by both their peers and teachers. A friend’s son had a roommate who had been an enlisted man first. Also, there are plenty who serve first and then go to college fulltime. Must admit would not recommend that route if it were my son but it does happen. And very important
Your son should be aware that excessive drinking can lead to a less than honorable discharge…</p>

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<p>2born - yes, you can take the 1st 2 years of ROTC with no obligation. that would be my preference too (unfortunately its not up to me). We just have to get him to agree to this path however!</p>

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<p>Has he looked at West Point? His stats are not out of the range of acceptance, it could be an option.</p>

<p>If he is interested he needs to get the ball rolling, it takes some time to complete the application(s).</p>

<p>Was a hard decision for my sons, one of their most difficult. Middle one also really wanted to be a tank commander, still does. The Point was one of his final 2 choices come the end of April of his senior year. </p>

<p>Might be what your son is looking for, I know it was for 2 of my kiddos.</p>

<p>Kat
one ended up at the naval academy and the other at princeton</p>

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<p>“every single person many of the military positions, including every infantry soldier, could make a decision that affects someone’s life.”</p>

<p>That was my first thought, too. Even if he’s only thinking about his fellow soldiers rather than enemies and civilians, as an infantry soldier he will have Americans’ lives in his hands every day.</p>

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<p>I think he should reassess the point of whether he’d want to be an officer or not. If he wants to make a career out of the military (I don’t think you said this is necessarily his goal), doing so as an officer is, IMO, better. Officers receive more pay, better, benefits, and better housing. If he only plans to do a minimum stint then the better pay/benefits isn’t as significant.</p>

<p>As far as potentially making a life or death decision - every military person on a front line (and some behind the lines) make these decisions, not just when they fire the gun, but also when they don’t fire and thus could inadvertently contribute to the death of a fellow soldier. The responsibility of a soldier is a big one.</p>

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<p>I am not sure that a GPA and SAT score like that is in the range of the military academies. It is my understanding that they are almost as difficult to get into as the ivies, with a very low acceptance rate…ie Air Force and Army-11%, Navy-7%, Coast Guard-16%. They may have some very exceptional students with lower GPAs who have other compelling factors, but I don’t think that is the norm.</p>

<p>From the first post, it almost sounds that he’s just looking to duck responsibility and be taken care of. College is too hard (with that mindset, no WAY should someone go to a military academy even if they could get in), being an officer too much responsibility.</p>

<p>But the reality is that enlisted soldiers have a huge amount of responsibility for others lives. Very directly, if one is in the infantry. And you might get to see the result of a bad decision right before your eyes. It is also very difficult work, under demanding conditions. I think he would be well served to understand and view exactly what he might be doing, not by watching a Hollywood movie, but some other sort of exposure. He can always start college (and if he’s concerned he might not do well, he doesn’t have to go to the most challenging school around), and make his choice then.</p>

<p>I totally respect people who go into the military, as both enlisted and officer. But they need to do so with their eyes wide open, understanding that they might have to fight and die. I don’t want people to enlist because they think it’s the easy way, or don’t have any better ideas.</p>

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<p>Busdriver 11 said it very well. The military is not the place for a kid who is reluctant to take on responsibility. The OP’s son sounds sort of adrift, and not sure about what he wants to do when he graduates. That doesn’t scream “join the military!” to me. That sounds more like “take a gap year and get a job” to me.</p>

<p>That said, educational benefits are outstanding. The GI Bill will pay for four years of instate tuition, and there is Basic Allowance for Housing available. The GI Bill benefits can be gifted to a spouse and to children. </p>

<p>H is career military, took an HPSP scholarship for medical school, as did his brother. He is gifting his GI Bill benefits to our children, split between them. Our two older sons have a number of friends who have taken various routes to college through the military. ROTC scholarships, West Point, Naval Academy, Coast Guard Academy, enlisted after high school and then using the GI Bill, and one friend who is at the Merchant Marine Academy, (which is not a military academy, but is free and offers engineering, specifically marine engineering as a major).</p>

<p>They all have in common good to excellent grades, a drive to succeed, strong leadership skills and a long term interest in serving in the military.</p>