The concern, @CTDRAMAmom, is not that Chelsea or anyone else would advocate for one student over another, or even that Chelsea’s students fare better at auditions because thay are well coached and prepared, the concern is that my kid may be just as talented and prepared as the next kid but doesnt get into this program simply because I couldn’t afford to benefit from a coach’s special relationship with universities at private auditions. Its kind of hard to fathom tnat such special arrangements are permitted. But as @soozievt points out, the system is what it is so I will have to navigate it as best as we can.
I do agree at the end of the day that the schools know what they’re looking for & they only care ultimately about talent/look they want for their program.
I do not care if people hire a coach to help w/ songs, school choice, monologues, etc. same with my nephew having college coaches that helped him w/ baseball training and guidance to try to get a baseball college gig. People get SAT tutors & I feel like coaches are sorta like that. Yes it’s costs money and mt is expensive! But so is baseball . My sister has spent a fortune on travel teams etc. yes very talented students are getting the shaft because they don’t have the money for travel and coaches and applying to all these schools and probably have unsupportive or simply overworked parents who could never devote time to the insanity required as they are working to pay the bills , and this makes me sad .
However. I do not like the private auditions that the coaches use for the top tier schools. (Where the school is invited to come audition only those coaches students. ) I feel like @soozievt mentioned about how this would be squirrelly if a regular college counselor did something like this. Something just doesn’t sit well with me about it. I remember there being some controversy a few years ago about this and how a certain coach was promoting a certain student a lot to the top schools & perhaps that person got several top acceptances… not sure if that was an accurate story as I can’t remember the details but nonetheless not a fan of those private auditions.
I do feel that most coaches are above board & probably will be even more so since this scandal broke.
@PhilipM Except for Moonifieds, I don’t know that any coach has the kind of relationship you’re talking about. MCA certainly doesn’t. And even with Moonifieds, I’m not sure how private auditions equate to a coach’s “special relationship with universities” and how that relationship gives anyone an advantage. The advantage, to me, is that the Moonified kids get to audition early for a pretty good contingent of the top schools all in one place.
There’s no denying that many coaches do have long-standing relationships with certain schools and they will be in contact with them.
If you host college heads every year - there is no WAY you don’t know them.
Thanks @CTDramaMom. Being new to this, its hard to tell how widespread or significant a coponent the private audition issue is.I had heard of moonifieds and seen reference to private auditions and coaches having “relationships” with certain schools. It is hard to tell whether these various references are references s to a single thing, moonifieds, e.g., or should be taken cumulatively. I am heartened to hear that perhaps it is not as significant a factor as I feared. However, that there are opportunities for only select kids to “audition early for a pretty good contingent of the top schools” is not a minor advantage. It is a huge advantage that, I would think, is the primary selling point for using coaches that offer the perk. Arguably lots of coaches and teachers can prepare their students to perform well at auditions, but perhaps only a selct few offer their students the chance to be seen before all the other well prepared kids.
Moonifieds and CAP are the only 2 larger-scale auditions organized by coaches that I am aware of, but there could be more. Some of the other coaches offer smaller versions (maybe a school or 2 at a time).
It might be important to remember that many fee-based (or invitation-only) opportunities allow intimate interaction with college faculty, and those interactions sometimes turn into prescreen passes and offers of acceptance. These include: independent camps (such as Artsbrige), on-campus intensives (such as Nexxus), weekend masterclasses (offered by many entities), thespian festivals for category winners (such as ITA Nationals), competitions (such as NHSM JImmy awards), and certain performing arts high schools (such as Booker T in Dallas).
If the theory of invitation/fee-required interactions that can net offers and foster relationships between faculty and prospective students are unsettling, I thinks that’s understandable. I don’t agree with it, but I can appreciate your viewpoint.
If you decide that you’re uncomfortable with schools and institutions that promote or participate in these invitation and fee-based opprtunities, and questions about ethics or equality make you second guess submitting an application or attending a program, that’s also understandable.
I personally see it a bit differently. As the number of MT hopefuls continues to rise, schools are finding it more and more difficult to see the candidates they are most interested in. Schools are also a business, and profit matters to a program’s funding and longevity. If camps, workshops, and private auditions help them see top talent and (in the case of all but auditions) produce any stream of revenue, they might feel compelled to jump on those chances.
For what it’s worth, following is a list of schools that attended Moonifieds durin the past couple of years: (most were final auditions, and approx 5 were live prescreens):JMU, Ball State, Coastal, BW, Shenandoah, Texas Tech, Texas State, Wright St., Missouri St, Pace, Oklahoma, Viterbo, Penn St, Texas Christian, Arizona, FSU, Molly/CAP21, Montclair, Ohio Northern, Point Park, Rider, UArts, Central Oklahoma. I think many of the same schools attend CAP in Atlanta.
My son was not able to do any masterclasses, intensives, camps, and his school is ineligible for the Jimmy’s program, but maybe parents affiliated with those can chime in.
Wishing all of you the best as you navigate, plan and allocate your resources. Feel free to PM if you want more info about our coaching expereince. Break legs!
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Like @beachymom’s son, my daughter did not attend any private auditions run by a coaching firm, any master classes, programs that have college faculty as teachers or guests, on-campus intensives, thespian festivals, regional competitions that feed into the Jimmy awards, or attend a performing arts high school. No BFA in MT programs had any previous contact with my kid before she attended her auditions (she did campus auditions). None would know a thing about her. And frankly, this is true of many, many, many applicants, both her friends, and students whom I have advised. Many, including my daughter, had positive admissions results into MT college programs. You can’t do anything about these other existing things or that some kids got to participate. Stay your own course.
What’s important is to be well prepared. I believe my own kid was prepared. Training is important in the three disciplines. My kid had training in voice and dance, but hardly any in acting, given where we lived (rural area). Performance experience is also important. My kid had LOTS of that. Audition experience itself is beneficial as auditioning is a skill, as well as being comfortable in such situations. My kid had auditioned a lot in her life, at many different levels. While college auditions has more at stake, she was used to auditioning. Then, there is the preparation for the audition material. I DO think a student really needs some type of mentorship/coaching for this, because so many will have some level of help to prepare (not all that different than preparing for the SAT/ACT). Whomever coaches the students on their songs and monologues, should have familiarity with college BFA auditions and have worked with others who have pursued this. But it can be a local person. My child worked with her voice teacher on her audition songs, and he had worked with others who pursued MT college programs, as well as performers on Broadway and such. My D also met with someone locally (in Vermont) for about 4 months to select and prepare her monologues, and this person taught in a MT program (not college based) in NYC. And if nobody near you can help, there are wonderful nationally based MT coaches, such as MTCA, and others. So, some prep help for auditions really can help. If you can afford your child to experience an intensive summer program where they get to live and breathe MT and be with talented kids from around the country, it can be beneficial (but not essential). My kid did attend a summer theater camp, but not with college auditions in mind, but simply because she loved it and we provided our kids with summer enrichment away from home, no matter their interests. They attended pubic school, by the way. Our school did not have a theater program or classes, but did put on one play and one musical per year. There were no performing arts high schools in our state.
Try to focus on your own kid’s path. The basic elements are to do well in school, take a challenging curriculum, prep and take standardized tests, actively participate in and be dedicated to extracurriculars (better yet if you achieve in these, or contribute significantly, or lead in some capacity), train in voice, dance, and acting, participate in theater productions, and prep and get some mentorship/coaching for auditions, get great recommendations, write great essays, and create an appropriate and well balanced college list (ideally have some form of assessment of your child’s competitiveness for BFA in MT programs…either significant benchmarks or get an assessment), and then…let the chips fall as they will…don’t concern yourself as to what others did, or what advantage they may have had. An added plus is understanding music (ideally play an instrument and understand music theory…this was true of my own kid). For students who do all the basic elements I described here, they should have a college to attend and not be totally closed out. I’ve been advising college applicants as my job for 16 years, and have never had someone have no college to attend and have never had someone not have a choice come spring.
This is a stressful process and can feel overwhelming, but it is not impossible.
Looking at the list that @beachymom provided of which programs/colleges attend Moonifieds (and possibly CAP in Atlanta)…interestingly, my daughter didn’t happen to apply to any schools on that list, but it is just an observation and coincidence now. There are so many great schools. Some participate in these private auditions (and I can see why) and some don’t. Great schools are in both groups.
Oops, I now notice I made one error. My daughter applied and was admitted to Penn State, and that school is on the list. She auditioned on their final audition date on campus, in her year.
@soozviet - I have repeated a similar mantra to inquiring minds over the past year: If your kid (1) is truly talented (confirmed by an unbiased assessment if possible), (2) is academically admissable, (3) has a genuinely balanced school list that makes sense per their strengths,(4) has a great audition package (mono, songs, knowledge about school in case of interview), (5) is fully prepared for their audition and (6) has a winsome personality that they let shine - they WILL get into a program, and likely multiple programs.
@MThopeful2022 so how do you think that works? I’m honestly curious. These coaches have hundreds of kids audition for the same top programs. How would a coach choose to contact a school and advocate for one student over another?
Well said @beachymom I completely agree.
@CTDramaMom - doesn’t that happen with athletic coaches - that they “go to bat” for certain kids? I have ZERO experience with college coaches … but I don’t find it hard to believe that they have “stars” and ordinary players. Perhaps that is just me being cynical - but even when you are paying for a service it doesn’t mean there is a level playing field. Same thing happens in the post college phase - there is a difference between getting on an agent’s roster, and having a agent who is really invested in your success.
^^^agree @beachymom. Not sure why audition coaching raises such ire. It’s not so much different than academic tutoring or ACT/SAT tutoring. Can your student work hard and do well without any of these services. Of course! Obviously, college coaching is NOT just for BFA students. A number of my kids’ friends used college coaches for various academic majors. Who knows how all this changes in light of the recent cheating scandal.
Another thing to consider – if the schools to which your student wishes to apply are not present at either Moonifieds; or CAP; or one of the large Thespian conferences where college auditions are help, or are coming to do private auditions at your prestigious performing arts high school’s showcase (yes, that happens, too!), then there is not advantage to your student. And if one or more of those schools does come to these event(s), I’d argue that the advantage is saving in travel costs IF these opportunities are near you AND fit your student’s schedule (not conflicting with the fall musical, for example). As for admissions preferences, I think every audition coach and everly drama teacher from the large PA high schools on down would agree that those who select the incoming classes at every MT program ARE VERY INDEPENDENT. They are extremely professional and capable to assess each student individually on the basis of their talents and performance in the audition room and only they know what type of student is the best fit for their class cohort.
I don’t see it as far fetched. First, I don’t think a single coach who holds an audition event has “hundreds” of students. One coach who holds such an event seems to have had around 235 students accepted to a college in the last cycle. NOT all of the students were MT and many were for Acting programs. Then, NOT all apply to the same list of schools. So, say there are 25 kids applying to one particular college that the coach not only invites to the private audition, but may also run various master classes with that program director, and so on. The coach is going to have lots of conversation time with these folks and I am sure discussing certain kids who stand out for certain reasons would come up. Promoting one’s students is a part of it, because they want their students to be admitted! Also, at one time, a coach promoted their students who were auditioning (before admissions results were released) by posting their headshots with names on their site. As well, if you look at the number of the coach’s students who are enrolling in particular colleges that attend the private audition or hold other workshops with the coach, it appears to be a higher amount in many cases than students who have matriculated at colleges that don’t have any relationship with the coach’s events.
In my line of work as an independent college counselor, I have absolutely NO contact with the colleges related to my students. But I imagine if I were socializing like this and having lots of in person contact, I would be chatting about my students. It seems only natural to do so.
Just to be clear, I am ALL for audition coaches. I think students benefit from, and should have guidance in preparing for their auditions, in order to be competitive. Yes, just like prepping for the SAT/ACT.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a bit like sports recruiting where the colleges are down to a last few candidates and may reach out to the coach for feedback on discriminators like work ethic or personality. I do share the frustration that many programs seem to prefer finished polished performers out of the coaching factories rather than raw talent with room to grow who may not have been able to afford coaching on top of everything else - but it’s a reality up and down the food chain. Private school kids get more access to top academic colleges. Top companies higher primarily from prestigious undergraduate programs. It’s up to us to let our kids know the scales are tipped against them and manage expectations while also encouraging them to work hard to break out of the box to which they are assigned. There are schools that do recognize the depth of raw talent and strong work ethic and want to develop those students, so I do agree that each will find the place they belong.
Agreed @afterp89! They learn early that the process is skewed and life isn’t always fair. I would say, though, that some schools are exactly the opposite - they prefer to see raw, coachable talent walk into the room. I have heard some program heads complaining about over-coached, robotic students. Carnegie is famous for taking the kid that did a few HS shows and maybe a few voice lessons but has “it”. Now figure out how to coach “it” and you could mint it :))
I don’t agree with this assessment. There are very very few students who are “finished polished performers.” If they were, they would not need to go to a BFA college program! I DO believe some kids have more talent than others. I DO believe some have more experience or training than others before they become seniors applying to college. This is no different than being a violinist or tennis player. All these kids have “room to grow.” I know my kid grew a lot during her 4 years in a BFA program. But it stands to reason that a college is going to admit someone into an artistic program who they feel has the talent among a slew of applicants and room to grow at their program at the same time. I would not make the contrast between “polished performers” and “raw talent.” Many of the successful applicants who are very talented have a “raw talent” too…sort of an “it” factor. As an auditor, I would pick the most talented applicants who fit my program. Someone with no training or experience, and ONLY “raw talent” as opposed to someone with “raw talent” who also has spent some time developing their skill set, is not likely to be chosen first. That would be like someone who really likes violin as a hobby, but hasn’t really studied it, being selected for a BM program in violin performance, or a kid who plays tennis as a hobby getting accepted over someone who has been playing competitively with a ranking on a regional level. I just don’t think that is realistic.