Which religions say it is okay? Apparently not any religions the use the Bible/Torah/Koran as their doctrine.
Going back to the OP, I have no problem with a private institution “banning” or whatever they are doing at Erskine. It’s good information for potential students to have, to get an idea of whether this is a place that will fit for them or not.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/18/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
The preponderance of the research on homosexuality strongly suggests it is biological, inborn. With that in mind, I don’t get why a university, which is supposed to be following and studying current scientific research, would “ban” something clearly created as part of the “design.”
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/05/health/carson-prison-gay/index.html
Even if you argue the research is not 100% definitive, why would you want to err on the side of shaming, judging, and discriminating against something which most research indicates is not a matter of choice?
My kids are not gay, but I would never pay to send them to an institution that took this stance. Legally, of course, this school is entitled. But as we often say in medicine, “Just because you can, does it mean you SHOULD?”
Because you are a believer in the literal truth of the Bible and the Bible clearly condemns it.
Coincidentally, I was just talking to my (extremely religious) mother, and she is very upset that my sister is planning to attend a gay wedding. She has marshalled a bunch of Bible passages to demonstrate to my sister why homosexuality is a sin, and that thus she shouldn’t go to this wedding. I tried to tell my mother that Bible passages were not persuasive to a person who doesn’t believe that all the passages in the Bible are applicable to present behavior. She wasn’t persuaded by my argument. Research wouldn’t persuade her, either.
Is there a single word in the four books of the gospels about homosexuality?
I don’t think so. In my experience, whenever a putative Christian wants to justify some kind of ungenerous or discriminatory behavior, they look to the Old Testament or to Paul.
Nrds,
Per alh’s link, only a teeny tiny percent of religious denominations grant equal rights to homosexuals. So why is anyone surprised at all by this religious college’s policy?
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
The graphs show a trend.
My wife and I have three children. My youngest son is two and a half years old. I love this little guy (as I love each of my children) more than anything else in the world.
What is his sexual orientation? Is it “hard-wired” already? At this point he doesn’t have a sexual identity, sex drive, impulses, etc. However much you subscribe to the Freudian oedipus complex stuff - consciously he isn’t a sexual creature right now. Some day he will be, there is no stopping that.
As he becomes one, environmental factors (as opposed to biological ones) are huge. I have a constant awareness that he is watching me and is identifying with me. He repeats what I say, mimics what I do. He is watching how I treat his mother and how I interact with her. In a million little ways he is picking up things that are framing what he perceives as normative. Other people - extended family and friends are modeling for him too, and as his world grows eventually the culture at large.
Environmental factors during psychosexual development are enormous. There is so much more than just “hard-wiring” involved.
Pizzagirl wanted to see same sex attraction and homosexuality as exactly identical to freckles or brown eyes. But these are genetic traits that are predictable. There is clearly a biological basis involved that can be demonstrated through the scientific method. There is nothing biologically speaking that can be demonstrated to be different between a heterosexual and a homosexual person. The only thing observable is different behavior.
I have a theory that if just about ANY two opposite sex children were to grow up alone together stranded on a tropical island (think Blue Lagoon if you want), they would “discover” enough opposite sex attraction not only to procreate, but to think they were quite heterosexual.
For me, none of this changes one iota how I am going to treat anybody, gay or straight. No one’s else’s life has less value than mine. My wife’s uncle is gay. My neighbors next door are a lesbian couple. I shoveled snow in their driveway this morning. My kids go over there constantly and I don’t even think about it. These are people I care about very much. They know where I stand and I know where they stand.
If being gay is okay, then choosing to be gay (when it is a choice) should also be okay. Bisexuals make choices.
From today’s New York Times:
Loukydad, thank you for your explanation.
I personally think it’s completely irrelevant to anything whether being homosexual is “hard-wired” or is influenced by environment. Either way, it’s simply not any of my business or concern and I see no reason I would want to think of that characteristic as having any more intrinsic meaning than right-handed vs left-handed, or freckled vs non-freckled. It’s just immaterial. I don’t get why it needs to be material to others.
And given the amount of discrimination and hatred gay people get (not saying that you do, of course - I’m saying people in general) it’s just ludicrous to think someone would “choose” to be gay. Why would you choose a choice that is going to be the rougher one in life?
I think the notion that people “choose to be gay” is why the biology argument is in fact relevant with respect to people who believe homosexuality is “wrong.” To people who don’t view homosexuality as “wrong,” the reason a person is involved sexually with someone of the same sex is completely irrelevant. But if one believes someone “chooses” to do something “wrong” or which is “a sin,” I think it is important for that person to be aware of the research.
LOUKYDAD said:
From the link I provided earlier:
For those who believe homosexuality is unnatural and homosexual sex sinful, I doubt proving people are born that way will change their minds. People are born with all sorts of deficits. This will just be seen as one more. imho.
I may be wrong about this. I am wrong about lots of things. I hope I’m wrong.
^^^I think some people can evolve and change. I was taught that homosexuality was wrong and unnatural in church and probably society. I certainly no longer believe that. In fact, I support gay marriage, gay rights, and don’t view it as anything remotely abnormal.
I know a lot of people who have changed how they view homosexuality (among other things) as they mature, as they become more educated, as they open themselves up to challenging things they have been told from childhood.
Absolutely. What changed your mind? Was it a reasoned argument or something different?
I love when people blame the parents. You light up my days and fill my nights with song. Pat yourself on the back for your own great parenting.
I think when I got into high school, I began to get the sense that some of my friends were gay. I knew that they were great people, so I began to question the spiel I’d gotten in church and from the general environment. My parents never talked about it one way or another, so it wasn’t something I was taught at home. I also began to get a sense that it was inborn, because I thought about how incredibly natural my own sexual attractions seemed, vs. trying to live up to an expectation. It wasn’t a stretch to think that gay people came to their own attractions in exactly the same way. In college, I learned that science was definitely making discoveries which reinforced that idea. I had a college friend who shared his experience with me about how he came to know he was gay, and it all made total sense. It was a gradual thing that happened alongside a lot of other things. At one time interracial relationships caused SHOCK in my experience and environment. I also came to view that as ridiculous as well, and even in my southern environment, it doesn’t so much as raise an eyebrow anymore.
“Which religions say it is okay? Apparently not any religions the use the Bible/Torah/Koran as their doctrine.”
Reform Judaism, the largest group of Jews in the United States, is based on the Torah and performs gay marriages (and has openly gay, partnered rabbis). They interpret the Torah as an important part of their heritage and source of timeless wisdom that also contains many rules not applicable to today’s society. Individuals are encouraged to find the level of observance of the old laws consistent with their own judgment and conscience.