College Campuses Too Asian?

<p>Too Asian? </p>

<p>
[quote]
“Rachel, for an Asian, has many friends.” </p>

<p>That’s the kind of line that apparently is turning up more and more in letters of recommendation on behalf of Asian American applicants to top colleges, according to experts on a panel called “Too Asian?” at the annual meeting of the National Association for College Admission Counseling. </p>

<p>When the recommendation line was cited as the kind of bias — even perhaps well intentioned bias — that pervades the admissions process, many in the audience at first seemed angry that in 2006 people would reference race in that way. But when it came time for audience comments, one high school counselor said that counselors feel they have no choice but to mention students’ Asian status and to try to make it seem like their Asian students are different from other Asian students. </p>

<p>“We make those comparisons because we feel it’s the only way we can get through and get our students looked at,” said the counselor, to knowing nods from others in the audience. </p>

<p>Many Asian students and their families have for years believed that quotas or bias hinder their chances at top Ivy or California universities. But to listen to panelists — and members of a standing room only audience — the intensity of concern has grown, as has mistrust of the system.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To read the rest of the article, please click on the link below:
<a href="http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asian%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asian&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A lot of people have criticized the system, but they seem to overlook that Asian families put a lot of pressure on their children to only attend certain schools (research universities) over liberal arts colleges. In my opinion, this exacerbates the situation because too many Asians are applying to certain colleges and admission officers cannot accept them all at the expense of other applicants (white, black, latino, etc.). It is also true that many prospective Asian applicants check the 'hard' majors: pre-med, economics, science, math, and engineering. Colleges have to make difficult decisions. But I put the blame squarely on the Asian parents.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Mike White, principal of Lynbrook High School, in one of the districts The Wall Street Journal wrote about, said that he has a very tough time persuading Asian students to look at the California State University campuses, including nearby San Jose State University, which has many academic programs in areas his students want to study. </p>

<p>If they don’t get into the University of California campus of choice or Stanford, he said, many prefer to enroll at a community college and transfer to a UC campus rather than attending a Cal State campus. White stressed that he didn’t mean to be critical of community colleges, but that it struck him that his students were ignoring institutions that were a good match — just because the institutions didn’t have a perceived level of prestige.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In this article, I am assuming they are talking about East Asians (Chinese, Korean and some Japanese) and South Asians (India).</p>

<p>"Rachel, for an Asian, has many friends."</p>

<p>What an incredible stereotype! Would a GC say that of a member of any other racial group? Does it mean that the GC is predicting that if colleges admit Asian students, they will be swamped by loners who stay in their dorm rooms all four years?</p>

<p>During admit weekend, my S attended the Southeast Asia night and declared it a riot. It was well attended by lots of non-Asians as well as Asians from many different countries. It was one of the highlights of that weekend.</p>

<p>Where I live, a lot of white people want their kids to go to the high schools that are heavily Asian, in the hope that some of the Asian attitudes will rub off.</p>

<p>And it's not just academic attitudes that I'm talking about.</p>

<p>I have a daughter who's a high school senior. Recently, I mentioned to her that another parent I know, whose child attends a different school, was very worried about the widespread alcohol use among her child's friends. I said to my daughter, "You never talk about alcohol being a problem among your friends. In fact, I know that most of them don't drink at all. Why are your friends so different from X's friends?" Her answer, "Mom, my friends are mostly Asian. Duh."</p>

<p>When are people going to realize that Asian kids are an asset?</p>

<p>Your theory states that if too many intelligent kids apply to elite schools, then limit their quota and give the other minority representation by the US population distribution. </p>

<p>Now with same logic too many minorities are in jail thus we should put more white people in jail because by population they are the majority group even though they may not have committed crime. </p>

<p>I support the colleges doing whatever they choose to do so as they are private institution but since you are highly educated do not support any claims unless it is logical. How about forcing US companies to hire based on population and not based on talent?
Do you see what will happen?</p>

<p>US educators need to focus on educating poor urban (even rural or kids who are in indain reservation)students. They need to empower theese students who need help most. The policy should not try to bring intellegenet kids down to the level of non performing students. By eduacting the educational achievements of low performing students, you reduce crime as it is cheaper in long terms. If you say so, I agree with you in a heart beat.</p>

<p>Gee Marian, I didn't realize that our society is now rating ethnic groups as "assets," and presumably, by your way of thinking, some groups are not assets. I would expect to read such statements from the old British Colonial Empire, not contemporary America.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But I put the blame squarely on the Asian parents.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know if "blame" is the right word. I see Asian parents pushing & pushing their kids beyond what I personally feel is healthy or reasonable. But I think that's a reaction to the message of the schools. Stats, stats, stats. Any national level awards? What independent research have you done? Etc.</p>

<p>Are there quotas that limit Asians? Or are colleges swinging toward more well-rounded candidates & Asians feel the rules are being changed in the middle of the game. I don't know.</p>

<p>Quote: "A lot of people have criticized the system, but they seem to overlook that Asian families put a lot of pressure on their children to only attend certain schools (research universities) over liberal arts colleges. In my opinion, this exacerbates the situation because too many Asians are applying to certain colleges and admission officers cannot accept them all at the expense of other applicants (white, black, latino, etc.). It is also true that many prospective Asian applicants check the 'hard' majors: pre-med, economics, science, math, and engineering. Colleges have to make difficult decisions. But I put the blame squarely on the Asian parents."</p>

<p>You have to be kidding right? Or should I feel sorry for you?</p>

<p>Who are we talking about? Mongolians? Upland Hmong? Palauians? Fifth-generation Japanese-Americans? Afghanis? Sri Lankans? Mien? Vietnamese?
Pakistanis? Guamians? or Uzbeks?</p>

<p>Let me go drag out the world atlas & list some more Asian subgroups. You missed a few.</p>

<p>We get it, mini. Asians are not a homogeneous group.</p>

<p>After thinking about this- and another thread where a school wants to encourage gays to self identify- I am wondering if perhaps applications should be purged of anything that identifies students as
* Asian-Black-suburban-rural-poor-wealthy-religous-atheist*
or anything that does not directly relate to how well they will do in the classroom.
No more essays about your Makah great aunt, or that your father who was born in Burma, or that because you have a Spanish surname you identify as * Hispanic*. ;)</p>

<p>I could argue that the only real "tip" that should be given is whether neither of your parents have a college degree. This cuts across economic, racial, religious lines, and gets to what I think needs to be accomplished in the higher ed business. More access for students who don't come from a college background.</p>

<p>Ok. Go.</p>

<p>It's pretty hard to find a solution to a problem that is as overblown as it has been statistically debunked. Pseudo-scientists love to attach a giant microscope at the end of a funnel to make their point. The best way to REALLY ascertain the problem is to analyze the statistics for ALL graduating students and measure against their matriculation numbers. How do whites, blacks, latinos, indians fare when compared to Asians in admissions in the US News top 50 universities and liberal arts schools, and in the next 50? Do we have a large group of asian students that are irrevocably barred to attend a world class school in the United States? A very, very competitive school? Again, compared that to URM numbers and the non-URM but lower SES groups. </p>

<p>For many students, the issue is not about walking down between ivy-covered walls or been able to point --from quite a distance-- to a Nobel prize winner at Cal, it is simply about being able to attend a college ... any college.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Now with same logic too many minorities are in jail thus we should put more white people in jail because by population they are the majority group even though they may not have committed crime.

[/quote]
I don't think diversity in the jail population has ever been considered of high value to society. I think your logic is faulty here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
How about forcing US companies to hire based on population and not based on talent?

[/quote]
It happens every day, especially if you want government contracts. Every heard of small and minority owned business initiatives?</p>

<p>It is bigotry like this that diminishes ourself. Arthur Kornberg, who is Jewish could not get into a top medical school because of jewish quota at the time. He finally went to U of Rochester, on a Jewish quota that was set at 2. He went on to discover how DNA is made and won his Nobel Prize. He was asked to be the Dean at a top Ivy awhile ago. He declined and informed them that the same medical school did not see fit to admit him for being Jewish. His son, who followed his path but at a much improved enviroment for Jews, has just won the Nobel Prize this year by showing us the actual process his father discovered. </p>

<p>Yes, for your information, the present hollistic admission process was created originally to exclude Jews. The same mentality is now extended to Asians. Perhaps we should remind ourself that the Vietnam Memmorial was designed by an Asian who was still a student at the time? Yes, I am a first generation Asian American. My D goes not to a research University but to Amherst to major in Literature. Did she want to go to Harvard? Yes, but in that she is not different from any bright kids who aspire to be at the best. Do I feel ashamed for our bigotry when she questioned whether it was her Asian heritage that may have excluded her?</p>

<p>As I've said before in other posts, elite colleges stack the deck for and against various groups in many ways, some of them subtle, such as an emphasis on sports, discounting certain kinds of ECs like orchestral music etc. (not to mention legacy preferences, prep school preferences etc.)</p>

<p>Are these admission criteria tweaks to minimize certain groups? You tell me. I don't know. I do know the impact, though. For a non-asian example, take a look at articles in the Daily Princetonian a few years ago about the impact of changes in admissions emphasis at Princeton on Jewish enrollment. This stuff happens.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am wondering if perhaps applications should be purged of anything that identifies students as
Asian-Black-suburban-rural-poor-wealthy-religous-atheist
or anything that does not directly relate to how well they will do in the classroom.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would like to purge them of any mention of gender, too.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, for your information, the present holistic admission process was created originally to exclude Jews. The same mentality is now extended to Asians.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think it's important to remember this.</p>

<p>I think the educational quality - for all students - would seriously suffer, as would the fundraising capacities of the individual colleges which make that educational quality possible.</p>

<p>How well they "will" do in the classroom is a matter of some debate. (Remember: the CollegeBoard determined some years ago that 1300 (old) SAT score was simply an 1100 plus $100k in family income. And all the CollegeBoard claims for the SAT is a gauge of how well students will do in the first year of college. Beware of what you wish for.)</p>

<p>Marian, When the ratio ends up being 70/30, or 80/20 at many schools, many females won't want to attend. I seriously doubt that they will purge gender.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Do I feel ashamed for our bigotry when she questioned whether it was her Asian heritage that may have excluded her?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Whose bigotry?</p>

<p>America's? Harvard's? Your family's? I'm not clear.</p>

<p>
[quote]
When the ratio ends up being 70/30, or 80/20 at many schools, many females won't want to attend.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That sounds like a self-correcting situation. If fewer women apply, won't the ratio straighten itself out a bit?</p>