College Comparison XX: Student Indebtedness

College Search & Selection
1

<p>In order to assist some in their college search process, I have prepared a series of threads that will compare colleges on a variety of measurements. In making these comparisons, I have created three broad groups (private national universities, public national universities and liberal arts colleges) and provide comparisons involving 117 colleges (national universities ranked in the USNWR Top 75 and LACs ranked in the USNWR Top 40). </p>

<p>Following is a comparison of STUDENT INDEBTEDNESS upon graduation. To assist in the comparisons, I have included the percentage of students on each campus that are borrowing money to finance their education. </p>

<p>It is in areas related to finances and financial aid that the relative financial strength of colleges is seen. It takes more than just a large endowment. It also takes a willingness to commit those resources for the benefit of undergraduate students. Those colleges with large resources AND a willingness to use them to assist undergraduates will compare more favorably in this presentation. </p>

<p>Avg Student Indebtedness , Private National University ( % borrowing )</p>

<p>$5,859 , Princeton ( 19% )
$9,871 , Caltech ( 39% )</p>

<p>$10,813 , Harvard ( 39% )
$11,108 , Rice ( 42% )
$12,297 , Yale ( 33% )
$13,926 , BYU ( 35% )
$14,148 , MIT ( 49% )</p>

<p>$15,724 , Stanford ( 40% )
$19,085 , U Penn ( 41% )
$19,358 , Boston College ( 52% )
$19,390 , Brown ( 44% )
$19,625 , Yeshiva ( 48% )
$19,839 , Vanderbilt ( 38% )
$19,908 , Northwestern ( 49% )</p>

<p>$20,095 , Brandeis ( 77% )
$20,126 , Dartmouth ( 52% )
$20,883 , SMU ( 38% )
$21,984 , Johns Hopkins ( 50% )
$23,181 , Emory ( 42% )
$23,333 , Georgetown ( 44% )
$23,687 , Tufts ( 40% )
$23,961 , Tulane ( 47% )
$24,205 , Duke ( 41% )
$24,500 , U Miami ( 56% )
$24,750 , Cornell ( 46% )
$24,827 , Wake Forest ( 38% )</p>

<p>$25,586 , Boston University ( 59% )
$27,121 , U Rochester ( 55% )
$27,455 , Syracuse ( 64% )
$27,562 , U Chicago ( 41% )
$27,692 , USC ( 51% )
$29,756 , Lehigh ( 58% )
$29,835 , Notre Dame ( 57% )</p>

<p>$30,375 , Rensselaer ( 70% )
$30,533 , Carnegie Mellon ( 50% )
$31,299 , George Washington ( 47% )
$31,300 , Fordham ( 62% )
$31,546 , Pepperdine ( 61% )
$34,850 , NYU ( 58% )</p>

<p>$37,175 , Worcester ( 76% )
$37,892 , Case Western ( 65% )</p>

<p>na , Columbia ( na )
na , Wash U ( 40% )</p>

<p>Avg Student Indebtedness , State University ( % borrowing )</p>

<p>$12,589 , WILLIAM & MARY ( 39% )
$14,291 , UC BERKELEY ( 39% )
$14,323 , UC IRVINE ( 46% )
$14,343 , U GEORGIA ( 40% )
$14,946 , U N CAROLINA ( 32% )</p>

<p>$15,155 , UC DAVIS ( 47% )
$15,318 , U FLORIDA ( 41% )
$15,918 , UC S CRUZ ( 53% )
$16,300 , RUTGERS ( 74% )
$16,317 , UC SAN DIEGO ( 50% )
$16,733 , UCLA ( 43% )
$16,800 , U WASHINGTON ( 50% )
$17,000 , U TEXAS ( 42% )
$17,107 , UC S BARBARA ( 47% )
$17,200 , U DELAWARE ( 46% )
$17,347 , MICHIGAN ST ( 41% )
$19,016 , U VIRGINIA ( 33% )
$19,891 , U ILLINOIS ( 54% )</p>

<p>$20,091 , U MARYLAND ( 44% )
$20,881 , GEORGIA TECH ( 48% )
$21,123 , U WISCONSIN ( 52% )
$21,413 , OHIO STATE ( 56% )
$21,521 , U CONNECTICUT ( 61% )
$22,013 , INDIANA U ( 56% )
$22,856 , U IOWA ( 61% )
$23,087 , PURDUE ( 52% )
$23,112 , TEXAS A&M ( 50% )
$23,811 , U MINNESOTA ( 64% )</p>

<p>$25,586 , U MICHIGAN ( 46% )
$26,800 , PENN STATE ( 69% )</p>

<p>na , U PITTSBURGH ( na )
na , CLEMSON ( na )
na , VIRGINIA TECH ( na )</p>

<p>Avg Student Indebtedness , LAC ( % borrowing )</p>

<p>$9,214 , Williams ( 46% )</p>

<p>$10,518 , Claremont McK ( 51% )
$11,100 , Pomona ( 53% )
$12,603 , Amherst ( 46% )
$12,639 , Wellesley ( 53% )
$13,207 , Scripps ( 48% )</p>

<p>$15,280 , Swarthmore ( 41% )
$15,695 , Barnard ( 43% )
$15,885 , Sewanee ( 45% )
$16,041 , Colorado College ( 39% )
$16,684 , Whitman ( 49% )
$17,125 , Haverford ( 41% )
$17,218 , Trinity ( 45% )
$17,304 , Macalester ( 72% )
$17,560 , Bowdoin ( 51% )
$18,173 , Oberlin ( 59% )
$18,259 , Hamilton ( 43% )
$18,500 , Bucknell ( 61% )
$18,747 , Lafayette ( 54% )
$18,785 , Bates ( 40% )
$19,462 , Kenyon ( 66% )
$19,526 , Grinnell ( 53% )
$19,910 , Vassar ( 50% )
$19,981 , Middlebury ( 36% )</p>

<p>$20,019 , Bryn Mawr ( 54% )
$20,083 , Carleton ( 52% )
$20,164 , Colgate ( 34% )
$20,201 , Bard ( 58% )
$20,381 , Occidental ( 73% )
$20,915 , U Richmond ( 43% )
$20,960 , Smith ( 71% )
$21,018 , Harvey Mudd ( 53% )
$23,616 , W&L ( 33% )
$23,841 , Mt. Holyoke ( 66% )
$24,325 , Furman ( 45% )
$24,900 , Colby ( 41% )</p>

<p>$25,025 , Davidson ( 33% )
$27,402 , Wesleyan ( 43% )</p>

<p>na , US Military Acad ( na )
na , US Naval Acad ( na )
na , Holy Cross ( na )</p>

2

<p>First, who borrows only 2k/year on a 50k/year? If the school went loan-free, there shouldn’t be any borrowing. If the school still put loan in FA, it shouldn’t be only 2k/year. Something’s really fishy in these reports.
The public schools figures make more sense because they have state grants, fed grants, etc… Their loan portion average about 3-4k/year.</p>

3

<p>While valuable historical data, one needs to recognize that finaid policies change annually, but there is a four year lag in reporting. For example, Dartmouth went no-loan two years ago, as did Harvard (I believe). Vandy went no-loan last year, so it’s numbers will plummet in three+ years (as the class moves thru the data reports).</p>

4

<p>I think the elephant in the room here is whether the institution is need blind or not. Those need blind schools have no idea at the time of admittance how much aid will be requested of them–and hats off to those schools who’ve managed to stay need-blind in this economy. That skews these numbers so much I believe there should be 2 different categories.</p>

5

<p>I don’t like “averages” …since many pay full-freight or some take on little debt, it distorts the numbers. I would prefer seeing the range of debt per school…</p>

<p>such as…</p>

<p>Univerisity X - debt ranges from $16k - 60k … xx number of students have debt
University Y - debt ranges from $30k - 80k … yy number of students have debt
University Z - debt ranges from $40k - 100k … zz number of students have debt</p>

<p>and this all just tracks student debt right? No tracking of family debt for college, right?</p>

6

<p>Does the “average” apply to only those that borrow money or the whole student body, including those that pay full-frieght? I want to see the former but I have a feeling these numbers apply to the whole student body. </p>

<p>If that’s the case, that answer middsmith’s question. </p>

<p>If that’s the case, it’s not a fair comparison. For example, Princeton would appear more generous than Harvard when it’s not, because only 19% borrow money.<br>
$5,859 , Princeton ( 19% )
$10,813 , Harvard ( 39% )</p>

<p>If that’s the case, I guess one can divide the dollar amount by the %borrow to get the average debt of the borrowing students.</p>

<p>Wow, is Princeton admission need-blind? 81% of the student body come from wealthy families!</p>

7

<p>Heaven forefend, but, I’m with Middsmith, on this one! :stuck_out_tongue: How can Wesleyan and Davidson be in a virtual tie? At one, you practically have to qualify for a Pell grant to get loan-free grants (Wesleyan) while the other is supposedly loan-free to everybody?</p>

8

<p>johnwesley,</p>

<p>What do you mean by “loan-free to everybody” (at Davidson)? You mean all FA is in the form on grants such that the number should be zero at Davidson? See my post above yours for middsmith’s question and let me know what you think.</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, that’s what I meant.</p>

<p>Again, a significant difference in percentage of underprivileged enrolled students (defined as, qualifying for a Pell grant) seems to explain part of the anomaly:
[Washington</a> Monthly](<a href=“http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings/liberal_arts_rank.php]Washington”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings/liberal_arts_rank.php)</p>

<p>It’s strange that both UVA and Davidson, one a public university and the other a small LAC, would have almost the exact same stats when it comes to enrolling underprivileged students.</p>

10

<p>^Is that a new policy for Davidson? Perhaps the data aren’t the most current.</p>

11

<p>it’s not ultra-new; I’d say, since 2006.</p>

12

<p>

You made my day. =)</p>

13

<p>hey johnwesley,
Actually the number for Davidson does match the CDS number on Davidson’s website. So apparently, “loan-free” doesn’t mean zero debt. :confused:</p>

14

<p>^I know several kids at Vandy, which meets full “need” and has loan-free packages, that have had to take out loans to cover their family’s EFC. Heck, I might even need to take out a low four-figure loan if I don’t get a paid internship this summer.</p>

15

<p>Hard to know what to make of this data. As Sam Lee points out, it’s completely unclear whether the “average” debt is the average debt load of the 19% of kids at Princeton who took out loans, or the average debt load of 100% of Princeton kids, of whom only 19% took out loans—in which case, the average of those actually carrying debt would be more like $24,000. Can you clarify, hawkette? If not, I think the whole boatload of data should be dismissed as junk.</p>

<p>Second, as mom2collegekids points out, the average debt load doesn’t really tell us all that much. If we focus just on the average, I’d say there’s not much to be concerned about here. At most of these schools, the average debt load is around $15K to $27K, which—once the economy picks up—should be very manageable for someone whose college degree is likely to earn them several hundred K in additional lifetime earnings over what they would have earned had they not attended college. So no problem, right? Maybe a little more worrisome at some of the private universities that start to push into the $30K to $40K range in debt load, but even then, potentially manageable. But the bigger concern is the people out at the tail of the curve—the people coming out with $50K or $70K of debt at a schools where the average is $20K. The data presented here tell us absolutely nothing about those worrisome cases out at the tail of the curve; consequently, pretty uninformative.</p>

<p>Third, as mom2collegekids correctly notes, we don’t know whether these figures track FAMILY educational debt, or only the part that’s on the student. Many families take out PLUS loans or borrow against home equity through HELOCs and the like to fund junior’s education. None of that is counted officially as “student” debt, and consequently is likely not to be reflected in these figures. Is that right, hawkette? If we don’t know, it’s junk data. If parental borrowing isn’t included, the data are next to useless. For many families it’s a close call whether to saddle junior with an unsubsidized Stafford loan (counted here?), or to have Mom & Dad take out that money in a PLUS loan (not counted here?) or drawing down home equity (not counted here?). Data on how much debt junior is saddled with in her own name isn’t really all that helpful, in itself, in gauging the financial burden that will accrue to the family from junior’s deciding to attend college X as opposed to college Y.</p>

<p>Finally, as several posters allude to, the average debt burden associated with attending a particular college is a function not only of that college’s costs and FA policies, but also of the demographics of those attending. If school A serves 80% full-pays, 10% Pell Grant recipients, and 10% in between, while school B serves 20% full-pays, 40% Pell Grant recipients, and 40% in between, then it only stands to reason that, even with identical costs and FA policies, school B is likely to have a higher average debt load, simply because financial need is greater and fewer students can afford 100% cash-on-the-barrelhead. But it would be enormously misleading for an applicant to assume that because the average debt load at school A is lower, that individual applicant will be financially better off at school A. Debt follows demographics, and the “average” per school is based on that school’s demographics. A school that drew 100% of its students from families earning $500K+/year likely would have an average debt load of zero, or close to it. That doesn’t mean the applicant from a family earning $50K/year would come out with a debt load of zero at College A, or be better off there than at a college with equally good academics but less affluent demographics. Potentially extremely misleading. </p>

<p>And the differences from school to school are not trivial. According to the Washington Monthly, only 9% of Harvard students receive Pell Grants. Contrast that with UC Berkeley (32%), UCLA (35%, UCSD (37%). Obviously, the UCs are serving a very different demographic, and a much poorer one. That Berkeley’s average debt load at the end of four years of college should be within a few thousand dollars of Harvard’s is a remarkable accomplishment on Berkeley’s part.</p>

16

<p>I think that discretionary parent loans aren’t usually included. For one thing, institutions aren’t in a position to know about them.</p>

<p>We may expect reported loan totals to increase next year on nearly every campus. That’s because they altered the rules on one of the federal loans. Now students can use it towards the family contribution. Previously it was only to meet need. It’s a 3-year program–meaning it’s a temporary policy change, for now.</p>

17

<p>The data for this thread comes from USNWR who, in turn, took it from the CDS of the colleges. This is not my data.</p>

<p>On the Common Data Set, in Section H (Financial Aid), part H4, you find the detail of what is included:</p>

<p>Provide the percentage of the class who borrowed at any time through any loan programs

  1. institutional
  2. state
  3. Federal Perkins
  4. Federal Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized
  5. private loans that were certified by your institution, etc.<br>
  6. Federal Direct Student Loans
  7. Federal Family Education Loans</p>

<p>Exclude parent loans. </p>

<p>Re the amounts of debt for schools, I thought about relating this to the level of tuition being charged. Such a comparison highlights schools that charge less for Tuition & Fees, but still graduate students with debt levels equal to higher cost colleges. </p>

<p>Here is that information:</p>

<p>Avg Debt/T&F , Avg Debt , T&F , Private National University</p>

<p>17% , $5,859 , $35,340 , Princeton</p>

<p>29% , $9,871 , $34,584 , Caltech
29% , $10,813 , $37,012 , Harvard
34% , $12,297 , $36,500 , Yale
36% , $11,108 , $31,248 , Rice
37% , $14,148 , $37,782 , MIT
42% , $15,724 , $37,881 , Stanford
49% , $19,085 , $38,970 , U Penn
49% , $19,358 , $39,130 , Boston College</p>

<p>50% , $19,390 , $38,848 , Brown
51% , $19,839 , $38,579 , Vanderbilt
52% , $19,908 , $38,461 , Northwestern
52% , $20,095 , $38,762 , Brandeis
52% , $20,126 , $38,679 , Dartmouth
56% , $21,984 , $39,150 , Johns Hopkins
59% , $23,687 , $40,342 , Tufts
59% , $23,961 , $40,564 , Tulane
59% , $20,883 , $35,160 , SMU
60% , $23,333 , $39,212 , Georgetown
61% , $23,181 , $38,036 , Emory
61% , $19,625 , $32,094 , Yeshiva
62% , $24,205 , $38,975 , Duke
64% , $24,827 , $38,622 , Wake Forest
65% , $24,750 , $37,954 , Cornell
67% , $25,586 , $38,440 , Boston University
68% , $24,500 , $36,188 , U Miami
70% , $27,562 , $39,381 , U Chicago
70% , $27,121 , $38,690 , U Rochester
71% , $27,692 , $39,124 , USC</p>

<p>77% , $30,533 , $39,833 , Carnegie Mellon
77% , $29,756 , $38,630 , Lehigh
78% , $29,835 , $38,477 , Notre Dame
78% , $30,375 , $39,165 , Rensselaer
78% , $31,299 , $39,945 , George Washington
79% , $27,455 , $34,926 , Syracuse
83% , $31,546 , $37,850 , Pepperdine
86% , $31,300 , $36,449 , Fordham
90% , $34,850 , $38,765 , NYU
99% , $37,175 , $37,440 , Worcester</p>

<p>105% , $37,892 , $36,238 , Case Western</p>

<p>325% , $13,926 , $4,290 , BYU</p>

<p>na , na , $41,316 , Columbia
na , na , $38,864 , Wash U</p>

<p>Avg Debt/OOS T&F , Avg Debt , OOS T&F , State University</p>

<p>41% , $12,589 , $30,592 , WILLIAM & MARY
48% , $14,291 , $30,022 , UC BERKELEY
48% , $15,155 , $31,385 , UC DAVIS
50% , $14,323 , $28,796 , UC IRVINE
50% , $15,918 , $31,559 , UC S CRUZ</p>

<p>53% , $16,317 , $30,819 , UC SAN DIEGO
56% , $17,000 , $30,600 , U TEXAS
56% , $17,107 , $30,724 , UC S BARBARA
56% , $16,733 , $29,897 , UCLA
60% , $19,016 , $31,870 , U VIRGINIA
61% , $17,347 , $28,270 , MICHIGAN ST
64% , $14,343 , $22,342 , U GEORGIA
65% , $15,318 , $23,744 , U FLORIDA
67% , $14,946 , $22,294 , U N CAROLINA
69% , $16,800 , $24,367 , U WASHINGTON
72% , $16,300 , $22,518 , RUTGERS
74% , $17,200 , $23,186 , U DELAWARE
75% , $25,586 , $34,230 , U MICHIGAN</p>

<p>77% , $19,891 , $25,756 , U ILLINOIS
81% , $20,881 , $25,716 , GEORGIA TECH
84% , $20,091 , $23,990 , U MARYLAND
84% , $22,013 , $26,160 , INDIANA U
84% , $21,521 , $25,486 , U CONNECTICUT
92% , $23,087 , $25,118 , PURDUE
95% , $21,123 , $22,270 , U WISCONSIN
96% , $21,413 , $22,278 , OHIO STATE</p>

<p>101% , $23,112 , $22,886 , TEXAS A&M
103% , $22,856 , $22,198 , U IOWA
103% , $26,800 , $25,946 , PENN STATE</p>

<p>153% , $23,811 , $15,542 , U MINNESOTA</p>

<p>na , na , $23,852 , U PITTSBURGH
na , na , $24,998 , CLEMSON
na , na , $21,488 , VIRGINIA TECH</p>

<p>IS Avg Debt/T&F , Avg Debt , IS T&F , State University</p>

<p>117% , $12,589 , $10,800 , WILLIAM & MARY</p>

<p>137% , $16,300 , $11,886 , RUTGERS
145% , $17,347 , $11,935 , MICHIGAN ST</p>

<p>162% , $15,155 , $9,364 , UC DAVIS
163% , $14,323 , $8,775 , UC IRVINE
171% , $14,291 , $8,352 , UC BERKELEY
171% , $19,891 , $11,614 , U ILLINOIS</p>

<p>179% , $15,918 , $8,890 , UC S CRUZ
181% , $17,200 , $9,486 , U DELAWARE
185% , $16,317 , $8,798 , UC SAN DIEGO
186% , $26,800 , $14,416 , PENN STATE
189% , $17,107 , $9,055 , UC S BARBARA
190% , $17,000 , $8,930 , U TEXAS
193% , $19,016 , $9,870 , U VIRGINIA</p>

<p>203% , $16,733 , $8,228 , UCLA
206% , $23,811 , $11,542 , U MINNESOTA
218% , $21,521 , $9,886 , U CONNECTICUT
218% , $25,586 , $11,738 , U MICHIGAN
218% , $16,800 , $7,692 , U WASHINGTON</p>

<p>238% , $14,343 , $6,030 , U GEORGIA
246% , $21,413 , $8,706 , OHIO STATE
249% , $20,091 , $8,053 , U MARYLAND</p>

<p>256% , $22,013 , $8,613 , INDIANA U
263% , $21,123 , $8,020 , U WISCONSIN
267% , $23,087 , $8,638 , PURDUE</p>

<p>277% , $14,946 , $5,396 , U N CAROLINA
277% , $23,112 , $8,336 , TEXAS A&M
278% , $20,881 , $7,506 , GEORGIA TECH</p>

<p>335% , $22,856 , $6,824 , U IOWA
350% , $15,318 , $4,373 , U FLORIDA</p>

<p>na , na , $14,154 , U PITTSBURGH
na , na , $10,688 , CLEMSON
na , na , $8,735 , VIRGINIA TECH</p>

<p>Avg Debt/T&F , Avg Debt , T&F , LAC</p>

<p>23% $9,214 $39,490 Williams</p>

<p>27% $10,518 $38,510 Claremont McK
30% $11,100 $37,017 Pomona
32% $12,603 $38,928 Amherst
33% $12,639 $38,062 Wellesley
34% $13,207 $38,700 Scripps
40% $15,280 $37,860 Swarthmore
41% $15,695 $38,650 Barnard
42% $17,218 $40,840 Trinity
43% $16,041 $37,278 Colorado College
44% $17,125 $39,085 Haverford
44% $17,560 $40,020 Bowdoin
45% $16,684 $36,940 Whitman
45% $18,500 $40,816 Bucknell
45% $17,304 $38,174 Macalester
45% $18,173 $40,004 Oberlin
46% $18,259 $39,760 Hamilton
46% $15,885 $34,172 Sewanee
47% $19,910 $41,930 Vassar
47% $19,462 $40,980 Kenyon
48% $18,785 $39,300 Bates
49% $20,164 $40,970 Colgate
50% $18,747 $37,815 Lafayette
50% $20,083 $39,777 Carleton</p>

<p>51% $20,201 $39,880 Bard
52% $19,981 $38,780 Middlebury
52% $20,915 $40,010 U Richmond
52% $20,381 $38,922 Occidental
53% $20,019 $38,034 Bryn Mawr
54% $19,526 $36,476 Grinnell
55% $21,018 $38,467 Harvey Mudd
56% $20,960 $37,758 Smith
61% $23,616 $38,877 W&L
61% $23,841 $39,126 Mt. Holyoke
65% $24,900 $38,320 Colby
66% $24,325 $36,656 Furman
68% $27,402 $40,092 Wesleyan
71% $25,025 $35,124 Davidson</p>

<p>na na $- US Military Acad
na na $- US Naval Acad
na na $38,722 Holy Cross</p>

18

<p>bc; don’t forget that the COA for a UC is less than half the cost of Harvard. And, of course, many of those Pell Grantees are local commuters (I would guess) bcos UC finaid is so poor, so R&B is not much of a factor.</p>

<p>And the others quite correctly point out two flaws in the data: if a college does not meet full need, such at Tulane or Miami, it’s loan numbers can be skewed downward. Or if a college claims to meet full need, such as WF, but meets that need with private loans, their data is skewed. And finally, we have those colleges that practice active enrollment management with finaid – lotsa grants to the top of their applicant pool, and loans to the bottom, such as NYU and George Washington – these colleges will have really strange “averages.”</p>