College Costs: How High Would You Go?

Parents Forum
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<p>I know there have been numerous threads debating the cost of state schools vs. the cost of private schools. My question is: what would the cost of a private school have to be in order for you to say "enough!" and go to the state school instead?</p>

<p>Assume we are talking top flagship state schools with many strong programs- perhaps UMich, UVA, UNC, UTexas etc. The actual education material would not be that far removed (and perhaps better) than the elite private schools. </p>

<p>The elite privates will cost around 47K next year and state flagships around 18K. For the full payers, how high would the cost of the elite have to be before it does not become worth it to you? If the elites cost 60k per year would you still think it worth it? 80K? Over 100K? How high are you willing to go?</p>

<p>How much is the private school experience worth to you?</p>

2

<p>That's a really good question - especially to parents - because so much of the tone on CC is "cost-be-damned;" the elites CANNOT be dismissed or turned down. In some cases, people have put aside enormous sums of money for a college fund, but most of us have not. So then it becomes: "How much additional debt do we want to take on?" or "How much of our yearly income can we devote to school?" or "How much of our retirement money will we spend?" or "How much debt can our child take on?"</p>

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<p>Tootiredmom:</p>

<p>First, it's not about "the private school experience," at least for us. It's about fit in terms of academics, size, location, student body, weather, etc...
Second, it depends on each family's finances.<br>
I've just finished reading about how Wall Streeters are spending their $2 -5 million bonuses this year. A minimum of $200,000 on "bling" seems to be the norm. That's a tad more than four years at the most expensive colleges currently cost. For the majority of American families, $200,000 without some sort of financial aid, whether based on need or merit, is too much. Families should not put their financial health at risk for the sake of an education at an expensive college.</p>

4

<p>That is my point. How much is 'fit' worth to you?</p>

<p>If Harvard were 250K a year would you still go for "fit"? Maybe you would and maybe you would not. Only each family can provide their own answer.</p>

<p>I realize each family is in a different financial situation and will have a different answer to this question.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
Only each family can provide their own answer.

[/quote]

Precisely.</p>

<p>If Harvard were to cost $250k a year, I'll bet its peer institutions, as well as some that are not considered peers, would cost that much and the cost of attending state universities would rise, too. So I cannot answer without taking all these alternatives into account. Moreover, I'd also hope our income would rise as well.</p>

6

<p>TTM, as Marite says, it's not about "the private school experience." Both TheMom and I are public school graduates and TheMom has worked at a top public institution (UCLA) for more than a quarter of a century. But the private LAC that our daughter is going to is giving her experiences she simply wouldn't get at a place like UCLA, starting with a paid research assistant position her first year and moving onward and upward from there. </p>

<p>To answer your question, it would depend on the FinAid situation. Absent a Regents scholarship (which D may have qualified for had she applied to UC), we're paying only a little more for her private LAC than we would have for UC. The difference in experience is such that we would stretch to make it work until things got pretty uncomfortable financially, not merely inconvenient or painful. Having not saved a lot of money up front, we're at the painful stage already and yet if we had to, we would certainly stretch more. Other than our health and our home, I can't think of anything else we'd give higher priority to. Her education is the best inheritance we could give D and we plan/act accordingly.</p>

<p>No, I'm not comfortable discussing specific numbers.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Other than our health and our home, I can't think of anything else we'd give higher priority to. Her education is the best inheritance we could give D and we plan/act accordingly.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I feel the same.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
But the private LAC that our daughter is going to is giving her experiences she simply wouldn't get at a place like UCLA, starting with a paid research assistant position her first year and moving onward and upward from there.

[/quote]
I am sure that's true, but the problem with that rationale is that kids at public universities often end up with experiences they simply wouldn't get at a private college. They are different experiences - but they can be rewarding and life-changing experiences nonetheless. And you can't really anticipate either way. It's not like pubic university students are sitting 24/7 in some lecture hall with 800 students -- their campuses are just overflowing with all sorts of activity and opportunities too. </p>

<p>I'm not questioning the decision -- just the rationalization.</p>

<p>Keeping a level head about this stuff made it a little easier for me with my daughter. I think that "how much would you pay" really depends on personal financial circumstances, but my arbitrary line was drawn at around $20K. The bigger worry for me is what if the need-based aid doesn't hold out -- that is, what if our financial aid packet for subsequent years ends up past my limit. Do I make the kid take time off from college? This is a very real concern for me because I have the great unknowable factor of a noncustodial parent who is self-employed, with a fluctuating income, who contributes absolutely nothing to the pot -- but whose income will be factored into the financial aid award each year. My greatest fear is that one year he makes a lot of money on paper (but not enough that would prompt a sudden burst of generosity from him) -- and I get hit with a huge bill. It's all we can do to make sure he gets the papers filed in time, much less give my daughter any money.</p>

9

<p>Certainly, I agree that only each family can provide its own answer. </p>

<p>Furthermore, even within a family, the answer may depend on the particular kid.</p>

<p>For example, friends of ours took advantage of a great deal at our flagship state for their first child (Schreyer Honors College at Penn State and the kid got a tuition scholarship besides the honors program award) which has worked out phenomenally well for that kid. IMO there is no way this particular kid would have been any better off at any other school. He has had outstanding opportunities - including several that could only be available at a big university. </p>

<p>The second child, however, went to a highly selective private school which fits him to a "T." He is a more sensitive individual who needed a compatible setting. </p>

<p>The first kid referred to above is the kind who would make his name ANYWHERE. He proves the point of the study that concluded that it is not where someone goes to school, but the ability/qualities of the individual that matters. </p>

<p>Some kids, however, I strongly feel, will "bloom" better in a more supportive environment. My first is one of those and we were happy to send her to a private school (full pay) because we felt it could make a crucial difference in her case. She is someone for whom the "fit" must be right or she would squirm. She is very fussy - and could not wait to get off the campuses of some schools we had visited. She has low frustration tolerance for things not to her taste and seeks out sophisticated settings. She literally found only one school of the many we toured that suited her, and we sent her there. It worked for her. The individual attention from profs made a real difference in her case. </p>

<p>Now that she has graduated and is successfully and happily engaged in her adult life, we are very pleased with the outcome, and feel it was worth the investment. </p>

<p>My second kid is less fussy, the kind who would be happy and might do pretty much the same thing in a variety of settings. Much more go with the flow. Although his academic ability is comparable to his sister's, he is considerably more flexible about fitting in in different environments. I truly feel that there is a greater range of options that could work well for him. IMO this kid might be better served if we kept some of his college money designated for an eventual down payment for his first house, rather than using it all to pay for an "ideal" college experience.</p>

<p>As for just how much we would have been willing to spend on either kid, my reaction is that any more than the $45,000/year price now charged by some private schools would tax my comfort level. We do feel that saving for retirement is a priority, and would not want to sacrifice one for the other. Other than education and retirement savings, we have happily kept our cost of living relatively low.</p>

10

<p>I have trouble on a value system relating the additional cost of the education vrs the value add from a top state school to a private school. I make this comment based on some facts from a long career of recruiting and working with faculty and students at Michigan, RPI, CMU on work with my company.</p>

<p>I think the bigger question is how much is the name worth and how much will you pay for it? Being able to graduate from a top school coupled with the quality of the education will open doors and negate some of the cost difference. I have a friends son that just finished his Phd work at CMU and got a 6 figure starting off from Merck in NJ. You have to make a judgement if the difference will add value</p>

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<p>I say less than it already is.</p>

12

<p>JYBER209: I think you do a nice job of explaining the realities that each student and situation is different. As a teacher I have listened to parents discuss college costs for a long time. Somehow when the cost hit $40,000 per year it seemed to hit a nerve with many of the parents, a lot of them baby boomers.
Maybe that is because many of them, including me, paid about that for our first home. I have seen a fair number of pretty "well off" parents sort of say "enough is enough"</p>

<p>I would also suggest that any rational financial plan would not allow dipping into retirement savings or sacrificing retirement security to fund education. There are so many other fiscally sound options for a child to get a reasonable educational experience. Certainly given the fiscal realities of the next 50 years looking at "value" and financial planning etc. would be valuable modeling for an 18 year old. Some have said things like: "I want my child to know I value eduacation." I do not see how just spending significant sums demonstates this. In fact like buying a lot of "stuff" it reveals a "hyper-consumerism" appraoch that says "you can buy anything" if you just throw enough money at it.
The true gift of parenting comes in the first 18 years beginning with a parent who takes the time to read to a child or play in the backyard. This is when the child develops the skills and values that determine what he/she will become. If the child has been raised to become a motivated, life long, self-learner it is likey that he/she will continue that in spite of college. There is certainly not a correlation with dollars spent on education and educational value. I worry that often what we might be saying is "See I paid $200000 K for my kids college, that means I am a good parent." Sort of trying to visibly demonstate a person's value as a parent. I have heard it said that what parents owe their children is an educational opportunity. What that is, is so different from child to child. In many cases spending nothing could be the best thing to do,long-term, for a particular student..</p>

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<p>For us, the limit is the amount we can reasonably pay off (Plus loans) before retirement. H is happy to work an extra year or two, but I'm not willing to have him work longer than that to pay off college loans. The number of kids in the question also makes a difference -- we can do the more expensive option for two kids, but probably not if we had had more.</p>

<p>We decided it was worth it to us to pay for our kids to attend the "best" schools to which they were admitted. Each family has to define "best" for themselves, of course. It is a luxury to be able to do that, and I am grateful that we could.</p>

<p>I'll add that I don't view it as an obligation -- we are obligated to educate the kids, but I don't think we have to do it in the most expensive way possible. The decision belongs to my husband and me, and it is OUR luxury, so to speak.</p>

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<p>I have heard of several cases on this board where out of state students were offered in-state tuition as a form of scholarship. Has anyone ever requested this at an out-of-state school? I am wondering if it is worth trying, because it would mean a difference of 10K per year for my D, who I feel, should have been offered merid aid but was not.</p>

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<p>sunshadow, It does not hurt to try b/c perhaps they will reevaluate her merit aid. You never know...I did call a state school who gives quite a bit of merit aid since my son did not receive any. I don't know whether they gave less last year to OOS students. I happen to know of several other OOS applicants, and none of them got any merit aid. I was just told that my son did not qualify. I would have had to pay the full OOS costs had he gone to that school.</p>

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<p>Many state schools do offer waivers to students who are National Merit scholars etc. (UT, Oklahoma are examples). The only other way is to see if there is a way to gain residency, which is tougher in some places than in others.</p>

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<p>My son has a specific area of interest (music) that can best be pursued at a high level at a finite number of schools, most of them private, and quite expensive. Our flagship state school is not even in the consideration, although the price tag is appealing.</p>

<p>I don't know how high tuition would have to go before we balked, but we are not happy with the in-state alternatives, so the question is a bit moot.</p>

18

<p>Jyber's #9 is a good post, imo. (Funny...her second went to the same school as my D.) The notion behind "fit" is finding the environment that will develop the most potential for the student. While I'd like to find a different word than "fussy," I will concede that there are a fair number of students who will do more or less equally well in different environments. They and their parents are probably a bit quizzical about "fit." Other students are such that their experiences would be much more variable. I'd have had no problem sending D to a public school that provides the matrix of environment and opportunity that she's in. Only thing is, there is no such critter.</p>

<p>OOD, spending the money on college has nothing to do with competition in the "good parent" sweepstakes and any implication that doing so is a compensation for neglectful parenting, failure to instill values, etc. is certainly misplaced to the point of character assassination.</p>

<p>CalMom, we are perhaps better than most to understand the differences between large public and D's small private school. Yes, things would always be different. But qualitatively, it would be extremely difficult to get anywhere near D's particular experiences at a state school. She would probably maximize the opportunities at Flagship U. as well; however, she has maximized the opportunities where she is and I just shake my head as I watch someone who is hitting a five-cherry jackpot. It simply would not be happening at Flagship U.</p>

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<p>I have to agree here. As the costs of college increase, it may be the ONLY inheritance we give.</p>

20

<p>In the real world, there are very few families that can afford even 20,000 after-tax dollars a year for college. And so what? Boo-hoo, my kid won't be able to go the Exclusive LAC where they could blossom in their love of intellectual discourse and A&F t-shirts. Tough. Millions of people don't get what they want and still muddle through. Kids have estranged parents who won't contribute. Kids have non-estranged parents who won't contribute. Most kids come from families in that uncomfortable range of family income from $35k to $75k per year where ANY private college is impossible without scholarship money. How about a 2.8 student with 1000 SATs? No one is knocking down their doors with merit money.</p>

<p>Students in the real world do what they've always done. They either go get a job and never go to college, or they work their way through a public education, maybe even starting -- THE HORROR! -- at a community college.</p>

<p>When someone starts talking, even hypothetically, about whether someone would be "willing" to spend $75,000 a year on a top college education I am gobsmacked. That's like $125,000 before taxes. How many people have been able to save $500,000 in pre-tax money for college educations? What if they have three children? This is a stratospheric segment of society. You could even say that, statistically speaking, there is no one in the US with that kind of money. Way less than 1% of people, anyway.</p>

<p>So, yeah, count me in as one of the mean b<em>st</em>rds who won't pay $50k a year to send each of my kids to college. I guess this just means that I don't love them enough.</p>