I’m a junior this year and am considering where to apply, where (or if) to ED, and where to go if I get in. I’m interested in majoring in something related to environmental science or policy, but I also really like marine biology specifically and don’t know whether I’ll want to pursue it in college. I think that I would have a decent shot of getting into Dartmouth if I applied early decision, but I am trying to compare a small, private, prestigious school like Dartmouth with a larger, public, less prestigious university such as UWash. Here are what I see as the advantages and disadvantages of both. Dartmouth is small, which is great for class sizes and access to professors, the qualities of professors being another benefit of the school. I like the rural setting and the school has a pretty good environmental studies program. Finally, I assume that the name and prestige of the school would help me secure job opportunities in the future. However, if I wanted to study marine biology, Dartmouth places virtually no emphasis on the subject with only a couple classes in that area. Also, I would be able to afford it but it is expensive as hell, which is another drawback. As for the benefits UWash (I would apply to the honors program, and if I got in it might lessen some of the upcoming drawbacks, but I’m not sure), it also has a nice campus and is in a great setting with skiing not too far away and the pacific ocean for water activities such as scuba diving. It has a college of the environment with a fantastic environmental science program that emphasizes research and it has a marine biology major. In fact, the school has research vessels with which students can conduct marine research and the college is next to a marine laboratory. Also, I would probably be able to secure a merit based scholarship. However, I worry that the class sizes would be too large and that professors would be much harder to form relationships with, which might close some doors to research opportunities. Furthermore, UWash isn’t widely believed to be a very prestigious school. These are the major considerations I have when comparing Dartmouth and UWash. Are my concerns for each legitimate? I would really appreciate anybody’s response and thank you for reading.
In my opinion, prestige is a thing of the past. I would never advise my kids to chase Dartmouth over UWash for prestige.
I am not familiar with UWash, but the middle 50% ACT is 27-32. This is on par with Ohio State, an excellent school.
Why consider only two colleges, neither of which you seem to be particularly happy with?
It sounds like OP cannot ED Dartmouth. Where to ED/EA is a big decision. When it comes to ED----a binding commitment you have to make by Oct–you must make sure you are going to be absolutely happy with the ED school you choose at that point. Otherwise, you will be miserable no matter the outcome.
Apply to both (and other colleges) and then come back after having secured admissions. You don’t know what kind of FA or merit money, for one, you’d receive that would make your family to afford. This affordability is a hugely significant filter, so get yourself admitted first. In the meantime, do the Net Price Calculator on all the colleges you’re applying.
Depends on the field.
Regardless, OP, since Dartmouth does not have Marine Bio (nice river running by campus, but other than that its landlocked), why Dartmouth? Dartmouth’s a great school, but there are plenty of other places with excellent Marine Bio programs (see UMiami). Run Dartmouth’s NPC and see if its even affordable. Run the NPC of other ED schools to see if they are affordable…
Again, why D?
Are you instate for U-Dub?
This doesn’t matter. A PhD is required for a career in marine biology, and you can specialize in grad school. At the undergraduate level, the most important thing is to get a solid grounding in math and all of the sciences – which one can definitely get at Dartmouth. Many PhD students in marine biology did their undergrad at landlocked colleges.
You can get exposure to marine science by studying abroad for a semester/year (e.g. Southampton in the UK or James Cook in Australia), doing an REU in oceanography, doing a summer internship at an aquarium, etc.
https://www.nsf.gov/crssprgm/reu/list_result.jsp?unitid=5053
Dartmouth for undergrad and UDub for grad school seems like a winning combo.
I wouldn’t rule out Dartmouth, but I do agree that it’s worth considering some of its peer schools. As you noted, U Miami is hard to beat.
I’m admittedly biased, but there are few places better than Duke for undergraduate studies in marine biology/science, and there’s certainly nowhere better for environmental policy. Stanford and Cornell are superb as well.
https://nicholas.duke.edu/
https://nicholas.duke.edu/marinelab
https://nicholas.duke.edu/marinelab/programs/undergraduate/RachelCarsonScholars
https://nicholas.duke.edu/career/for-students/stanback
https://biology.duke.edu/undergrad/requirements/concentrations/marine.html
There are several liberal arts colleges with great track records in marine science, including Bowdoin, Amherst, Eckerd, and the New College of Florida. The New College of Florida guarantees a $15K per year scholarship for out-of-state students, knocking the cost down to about $25K a year.
Washington may be one of those places, particularly if it is OP’s instate option:
Biology is the largest major:
https://www.biology.washington.edu/
https://artsci.washington.edu/file/45/download?token=Soz7ja8P
https://www.biology.washington.edu/programs/undergraduate#menu-pull
The new Life Sciences Complex just opened:
https://artsci.washington.edu/campaign/life-sciences-complex
Lots of undergraduate research opportunities:
https://www.washington.edu/undergradresearch/
https://www.washington.edu/undergradresearch/students/
https://www.washington.edu/undergradresearch/about/
https://www.washington.edu/undergradresearch/symposium/
https://www.biology.washington.edu/programs/undergraduate/research-opportunities
Washington has been a leading university in the biological sciences for decades:
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html#RANKBYAREA
http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldLIFE2016.html
http://www.shanghairanking.com/Shanghairanking-Subject-Rankings/biological-sciences.html
http://nturanking.lis.ntu.edu.tw/ranking/ByField/LIFE
It also has outstanding marine biology, oceanography and environmental science programs:
https://marinebiology.uw.edu
https://marinebiology.uw.edu/field-stations-ships/
https://marinebiology.uw.edu/field-stations-ships/friday-harbor-laboratories/
https://marinebiology.uw.edu/field-stations-ships/other-field-stations/
https://marinebiology.uw.edu/field-stations-ships/research-vessels/
https://marinebiology.uw.edu/faculty-research/undergraduate-research/
https://www.ocean.washington.edu/
https://www.ocean.washington.edu/story/About_the_School_of_Oceanography
https://www.ocean.washington.edu/story/Undergraduate_Education
https://www.ocean.washington.edu/story/Vessels
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html#area32
https://environment.uw.edu
https://environment.uw.edu/about/
https://environment.uw.edu/about/quick-facts/
https://environment.uw.edu/about/awards-and-honors/
Recent news:
Biology and related majors are among the top prospective majors for freshmen enrolling in the Honors Program (middle 50% ACT 31-35).
Good luck!
If UDub is not IS for OP, consider the cost carefully. Off campus housing is expensive.
Seconding NCF for Marine Biology. The bay provides lots of hands on research opportunities and Marine Bio students I know really enjoyed and valued their experience.
In my experience at two very large state flagship schools — and my sons currently at a campus of 14,000 undergrads — the notion that a large school equates with large classes and a difficulty establishing relationships with professors is largely false.
My undergrad college had well over 40,000 students. My first year, I had perhaps two classes with more than 60 students: Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Chemistry. My other classes varied between 20 and 40 students. My honors freshman writing course had only about 15 students. And once I finished EEB and Chem, and started taking more upper-level and honors courses, my class sizes were generally between 15 and 20 students, with the notable exception of accounting, where I suffered along with around 80 kindred spirits. (And I would have suffered had there been three students, a pony, and a comfort dog.)
As for establishing connections with favorite professors, it’s just not hard. Attend class. Offer answers and ask questions. Go to office hours to delve further into the material, ask questions, get recommendations for additional reading and like courses in the department, talk about internship possibilities and job prospects in the field, or share how much you enjoyed those movies / books / TV shows the professor keeps referencing. Take advantage of university “take a professor to lunch program.” If there isn’t one, get together with another student or two and ask the instructor to coffee or lunch. That’s really all it takes to get the ball rolling, assuming you have complementary interests and/or personalities. At my school of 40,000, I had three main mentors and met with them weekly. Did an award-winning honors thesis with one, worked part-time for another, and did research for the third. And had coffees, dinners, hiking trips, movie nights (with other students), etc. One of these professors encouraged me to attend UVA Law, and my sons are now UVA undergrads. And their experience has been similar — fhey’ve both found mentors and advisors and have variously been invited to office hours chats, bird-watching on Grounds, and to various speakers’ series and other university programs
Also, one of the real advantages of a large university is the greater selection of courses offered. I had far, far more courses offered in my majors as my undergraduate school of 40,000+ simply had far more professors specializing in far more areas of study. The course offerings at my sons’ school of 14,000 seem pretty narrow in comparison.
But it is early to be worried about all of this, honestly. You’ll have enough stress to deal with next fall. Give yourself until September to worry about strategic college application planning.
Can you afford Dartmouth?
Would you consider Williams? It’s similar to Dartmouth in terms of the rural location, and there’s a very big emphasis on the environment there. It also has a maritime studies concentration and a partnership with Mystic for a special maritime studies program where you study abroad.