College Decisions: Aim for high GPA or elite undergrad?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

Hi all,

I am currently a senior in high school. I have a really good chance of getting into elite schools like Cornell, Tufts, and Duke (I have visited some of the other ivies but didn’t really like the atmosphere) but I’m worried that I won’t be able to get a good GPA at these schools (information from current and past students have led me to the conclusion that these schools are very academically competitive and have grade deflation). At the same time I know that elite, top tier medical schools WILL CONSIDER reputations of schools even if they say they do (my family knows an admissions officer at a medical school) however everyone knows a good GPA is very very important too. Should I go to a tougher, more elite undergrad over less higher ranked colleges like Boston College, UNC Chapel Hill, or Umass Amherst?

2

Also my stats:

I go to a top 5 public school in my state.
GPA unweighted: 3.92
SAT: 1580
APs: 6 APs, 1 score of 4, rest are 5s (bio, stats, lit, chinese, enviro, apush)
Reccomendations: I got one killer one and another also really good one (history teacher and bio teacher)
Extracurriculars: youth orchestra at NEC (pretty prestigious), presidents of 2 clubs, 120 hours community service total
Other: bilingual

3

Go for the school that you think you will be able to get a High GPA.

4

@gumbymom I’m just a little worried that Umass Amherst won’t have as high quality classes as say BC or Cornell. Is this a valid concern or am I overthinking it?

5

With your scores going in you’ll do fine anywhere you go as long as your work ethic is there and you know to seek help (tutoring) when/if you reach something you’re not understanding.

It’s a myth to think those who go to top schools with top stats can’t get high GPAs. Someone does… you’re just as capable as the next student and more capable (based upon scores and current GPA) than many. Your foundation is sound. Now you just need to put in the work - while still having fun.

My pretty darn high scoring lad chose U Rochester as his #1, did well graduating Summa Cum Laude, and is now in his 2nd year of Med School still doing very well and loving it all.

Pick a school that is affordable and you like. You’ll do best in an environment you truly enjoy. The actual name of the school at that level doesn’t really mean much.

6

I’m going to be the contrary one here. Yes…you want a high GPA IF you apply to medical school. But as sure as you seem to be…stuff happens and folks change their minds. Many premed wannabes never actually apply to medical school.

You are currently a strong student. What makes you think that you won’t be at ANY college?

In addition, the hard courses are going to be similarly hard at any college you attend…think OChem, and the physics sequences. Do you really think they are easy peasy at a public university?

For the record…UNC-CH admissions for out of state students are AS competitive as some of the other “elite” schools on your list. And my opinion…Boston College is AS competitive as Tufts ad Duke.

I would pick the college that suits you best…not the one where you think you can coast through and get top grades…because fact is…you will be working hard regardless of your college choice.

@WayOutWestMom am I totally off base?

7

My daughter attends one of the “less higher ranked” schools that you mentioned… and she graduated at the very top of her HS class. She is almost done with her prerequisites for med school ( one bio class left) and although she has a very high GPA… she also worked very hard for it. It was not a cake walk.

I would go where you can get a high GPA… which very well may be a school like Duke ( somebody will get the A). Keep in mind that you will also need clinical volunteering, shadowing, volunteering with underrepresented populations, possibly research ( depending) … etc.

Go to the school that you like and could afford… I agree you will be working hard wherever you go.

8

With Ivy-level stats, you’d be in the Honors College.
However, do not assume it’s easier to get good grades at a public flagship than at a top private, in part because some private colleges have a form of grade inflation (along with rigorous courses!) and in part because top students at excellent flagships will be very competitive for premed.
In addition, remember that most would be premeds never make it to the application stage and change majors (either by choice or forced by bad grades) and then only 40% get even one med school offer.
So, choose your university so that it works for you if you end up not going to med school, because odds are, you won’t.
For a good example you can look at the tumbler by AFrenchie36 from starting as a freshman in the honors college to a truly stellar med school applicant.

9

Some questions–

  1. How sure are you that you want to become physician? Or is this just some sort of “maybe someday–this sounds cool” idea? Have you shadowed? Done any hospital volunteering?

  2. Do you want to become a physician or are you “I will only go to med school if I can go to Harvard Medical School”?

If are 1000% sure you want to go into medicine, then you need to attend a university where you will be sure you can earn a high GPA.

A 3.2 GPA from Harvard or JHU or Columbia won’t get you into med school. You might get a bit of GPA grace from the name on your diploma–think maybe 0.05-0.1–but not huge adjustment. And even that is highly school dependent. There will be plenty of 3.8+ applicants from elite colleges & universities who you’ll be competing against for a med school admission.

(And, btw, your GPA is only one thing that adcomms look at. If you don’t have the rest-- a strong MCAT score, great LORs, meaningful & long term ECs, a demonstrated commitment to service especially with the disadvantaged, a well written & thoughtful PS together with strong secondary essay answers, well received interview performance-- not even a 4.0 GPA from Harvard will get you a med school acceptance.)

If you’re confident that you can maintain your academic success in college, then there’s no reason not to attend an elite undergrad. (BTW, Tufts–not elite, despite their marketing) D2 attended a nationally ranked high school and had multiple science & math AP and post-AP level classes, then went to Top 30 research U. She had no trouble adjusting to college and never earned a single grad below–gasp! – one B {in Ochem lab] in her 4 years of undergrad. If you are this kind of student, then attend any college you choose–so long as you aren’t going into debt to pay for it…

If you are not high academic flyer or are uncertain about your competitiveness against those who will be your peers in college, then think & hard about where you fit. A top state U? A top 100 private or LAC? Any of those will offer you the resources you need to put together a successful med school application. If you are a really tippy top student, it might even get you into HMS/JHU/WashU.

Now, if you are HMS or bust kind of pre-med, then you really do need to consider attending an elite undergrad. For whatever reason (probably because students at elite colleges have better academic skills and better test-taking skills to start with), Top 10 med schools have substantial portion ( 20-25%) of their entering classes drawn from top 20 undergrads.

And here’s some other things to consider–75% of freshmen pre-meds NEVER apply to med school. That’s why I asked question #1. (And while academics is the issue for some, for the majority it’s discovering other more interesting, better paying, less stressful career options.) If you’e one of those who change your mind, attending an elite undergrad may open opportunities for you that UMass won’t.

So I guess my answer about what kind of undergrad to attend–the answer is “It depends.” It depends on your ultimate career goals, your academic & test-tasking abilities, your work ethic.

Pick a school that offers you the best combination of opportunities (including career opportunities that don’t include medicine), cost (med school COA is hovering around $75-80K/year so you need to minimize undergrad debt), and fit (happier students do better academically–and there’s objective data to prove that.).


BTW, it's largely a myth that elite schools have grade-deflation. In fact, data shows there has been substantial grade INFLATION at elite universities where the average GPA hovers around a A-. 

See: <a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com">http://www.gradeinflation.com</a>

<a href="https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/12/26/why-college-grade-inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it">https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/12/26/why-college-grade-inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it</a>

<a href="https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-how-an-epidemic-of-grade-inflation-made-as-average">https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-how-an-epidemic-of-grade-inflation-made-as-average</a>


[quote]
I'm just a little worried that Umass Amherst won't have as high quality classes as say BC or Cornell. Is this a valid concern or am I overthinking it?

[/quote]


You're overthinking this. The content will largely be the same no matter where you take Ochem, although the amount of detail covered and the depth may vary.

OChem at nearly any college (or community college)will give the necessary background you'll need to take the MCAT.  But no Ochem course as it's taught at any college will actually prepare you to take the MCAT.  Prepping for the MCAT, that's all on you
10

Thank you everyone for the replies! They were all super helpful (especially @WayOutWestMom).

11

There is a special section on CC for those who interested in BS/MD programs. HS students who apply and admitted to these programs will directly admitted into med school provided the essential grades have been met.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/

You may want to explore this avenue.

12

I’m not sure that you’ll find it that much easier to get perfect or near-perfect grades at schools on your “less higher ranked” list than you’d find at schools that are slightly higher ranked. You will be able to get a superior education and likely be challenged academically at any of these schools.

In fact, I don’t see ANY real difference at all between the schools in your two separate lists. Tufts and Boston College, for example, each chose the other as a “peer college” in the Chronicle of Higher Education survey. Duke and UNC-CH are also frequently identified as peers, especially in terms of premed preparation.

13

I wouldn’t rely on ranking to determine where you go. They’re not reliable. The biggest problem with medical students is debt. Medical school is very expensive, and large amounts of undergraduate debt can cause problems in the long term, especially when you need to take out private loans to finish medical school. Keep the debt low and your GPA high. Ace the MCAT, and you have a real shot at medical school. If you go to a “lesser” school and it doesn’t seem challenging, That’s your advantage. The MCAT will tell them the rest of the story.

14

If you are a top student, it’s possible to get both. Close friend went to Yale undergrad and Yale medical school, it can be done for top students. I’m probably in the minority here but IMO the education you get at some elite colleges stays with you the rest of your life. Challenge yourself, you obviously are very bright and an excellent test taker (99th percentile), the type of student who would thrive being among like minded peers and faculty at an elite institution.

If I was you the bigger concern would be “can you afford an elite private college for undergrad?” If you can graduate relatively debt free, I would not worry too much about whether or not you would get a high GPA in college. I have a feeling you will be fine based on your track record.

15

“I’m just a little worried that Umass Amherst won’t have as high quality classes as say BC or Cornell. Is this a valid concern or am I overthinking it?”

I think that if you go to UMass Amherst and take a number of premed classes, you are going to find that UMass Amherst is a very good university with very high academic standards. Premed organic chemistry at UMass is going to be very challenging.

Cost is also a big issue. If you are serious about premed, then try to avoid any debt at all for undergrad. If you can graduate with a bachelor’s degree, very high GPA, and some money still left over in your college fund, then you will be in very good shape.

16

Your decision will be a lot easier once your admissions results are in. Just be sure to submit your applications to a good mix of reach, match and safeties. Should you need FA, that will also heavily influence your decision making process.