College degree worth an extra $23 k a year in salary

Parents Forum
21

<p>perhaps UPI should be reminded that there is a difference between Washington state and the district of columbia ;)

[quote]
WASHINGTON, Oct. 25 (UPI) -- College graduates in the United States earn nearly twice as much as adults who have only a high school diploma.</p>

<p>The U.S. Census Bureau says adults ages 18 and older with a bachelor's degree earned an average of $51,554 in 2004, while those with a high school diploma earned $28,645. The Census Bureau said adults without a high school diploma earned an average of $19,169.</p>

<p>Adults with graduate school degrees made an average of $78,093.</p>

<p>In 2005, 85 percent of all adults age 25 or older reported they had completed at least high school, and 28 percent had attained at least a bachelor's degree, the Census Bureau said.</p>

<p>Washington has the highest percentage of adults over age 25 with at least a bachelor's degree -- 47 percent. Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland and New Jersey were close behind, the data showed.

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<p>It does look like from this info-from 2005 that DC has 45.3 % of adults with a bachelors degree
<a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-_box_head_nbr=R1402&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-format=US-30&-CONTEXT=grt%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-_box_head_nbr=R1402&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-format=US-30&-CONTEXT=grt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I didn't question the above article as much as I should because I remembered reading this recently
<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/29/real_estate/brainiest_cities/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/29/real_estate/brainiest_cities/index.htm&lt;/a>

[quote]
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you equate education with intelligence, then the smartest city in the United States is Seattle - 52.7 percent of its residents age 25 or older have completed a bachelor's degree or higher.</p>

<p>The education rankings were released this month by the U.S. Census Bureau.</p>

<p>Seattle's also been ranked as the most literate city in the United States by Central Connecticut State University, beating out Minneapolis, Washington and Atlanta. That rating was based on such things as the number of booksellers, libraries and newspaper circulation - as well as educational attainment.</p>

<p>Many brainy people have flocked to the Seattle area to work in what's called the "knowledge economy."</p>

<p>Companies headquartered there and in surrounding towns, including Microsoft, Amazon, Cray, Washington Mutual and Costco, all use heavy doses of information technology. Even another of the area's biggest employers, old-line Boeing, is also a glutton for technological solutions.</p>

<p>Seattle also has more than its share of residents with advanced degrees: 20.5 percent. Only Washington, D.C., has more holders of advanced degrees. Many there work for the federal government, as well as for the think tanks and other nongovernmental organizations that form the heart of capital's working culture.

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<p>CT has the highest % of PhDs of any state</p>

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<p>links?
according to the 2005 gov census 1st for advanced degrees is DC- followed by Mass- Maryland- then Conn. ( then followed by NY- New Jersey & Colorado)</p>

<p>Lowest % are North Dakota -Nevada- Mississippi and Arkansas</p>

24

<p><a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US13&-_box_head_nbr=R1402&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-format=US-30&-_sse=on%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US13&-_box_head_nbr=R1402&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-format=US-30&-_sse=on&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>DC has the highest percentage of bachelors recipients.</p>

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<p>And, DC has more people completing advanced degrees:</p>

<p><a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US13&-_box_head_nbr=R1403&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=US-30&-mt_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_R1401_US30&-CONTEXT=grt%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US13&-_box_head_nbr=R1403&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=US-30&-mt_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_R1401_US30&-CONTEXT=grt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>so basically (for the most part) they are candy in the northeast, but not in the rest of the country... again, for the most part.... and i'm sure those numbers are going to be increasing...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
does anybody have a more recent census?

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</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure 2005 is the most recent, being that it was just a year ago... I'm not sure how often they release census bureau statistics, but I do know the actual numbers are usually a year or two behind the day of release.</p>

<p>I think it all depends on many factors... college education does not guarantee higher incomes, because you still have to look at the type of degree, the industry, and the personal choices of the degree holder... my friend, who has a chemistry degree, chose to teach middle school math, and after 4 years of post-graduate work experience he makes ~29k... my other friend just graduated in May in MechE and got a starting offer of 54.5k... so it does depend.</p>

<p>
[quote]
so basically (for the most part) they are candy in the northeast, but not in the rest of the country... again, for the most part.... and i'm sure those numbers are going to be increasing...

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<p>All the more reason why getting a Masters degree is essential... however, I don't think the U.S. will ever reach 50% of its population with a bachelor's degree or above... I'd be surprised if we ever hit 40%... and if we do, it will still be the minority of the population, since the higher numbers are usually based in age groups, but when the aggregate is considered, the numbers normally shrink significantly.</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
so basically (for the most part) they are candy in the northeast, but not in the rest of the country... again, for the most part.... and i'm sure those numbers are going to be increasing...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'd hardly call them "candy" anywhere, even in the Northeast or "North-South". Even in the portion of the country with the highest proportion of Bach degrees, it's still less than 50%.</p>

29

<p>Let's accept the 23k$ difference.</p>

<p>Four years private college = about $200,000. 4 years lost wages. 4 year delay in starting one's career.</p>

<p>It sounds like a push.</p>

30

<p>
[quote]
Herrstein and Murray were bold enough to state that if one was reading their book they were already in the top 15 percent or so in terms of IQ. A bold statement!! Yes, but likely accurate.

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<p>meh...lets be honest here there are plenty with high IQ's who aren't interested in statistics - or even higher education</p>

<p>then again 15 percent of the total population is a lot - but i doubt that every reader fit that category</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Let's accept the 23k$ difference.</p>

<p>Four years private college = about $200,000. 4 years lost wages. 4 year delay in starting one's career.</p>

<p>It sounds like a push.

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<p>Not if you work while going to college (then the lost wages is moot)... I think the $200,000 figure is awfully high and not the norm... I go to a private school with a 4 year tuition tab of ~$80,000. However, with scholarships and grants, I'm doing it for much less than that.</p>

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<p>DC also has the highest number of children living in Poverty. Must be those degrees ;)</p>

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<p>thats a good point drizz
since the people I know who * work* in DC, don't * live* in DC- I wonder if those stats are actually those who make their main residence in Virginia?</p>

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<p>My guess is they are from the Reston area. (NOVA)</p>

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<p>Or MoCo. </p>

<p>12345</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>The B.A. is a credential that signals that its bearers tend to be smarter than those who don't bear one. Furthermore, those from say Yale tend to be smarter than UConn students, and are thus paid more. Majors of actual economic value (ie, independent of their ability to signal intelligence) are engineering and nursing, accounting and trades.</p></li>
<li><p>Intelligence has a validity (Validity - (1) In testing or assessment - A measurement's ability to measure what it purports to measure) of about 50% in predicting job productivity, on average (and jobs of college grads will tend to be more dependent on intelligence). The General Mental Ability mentioned in the article is IQ. See <a href="http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/%7Epsyc231/Readings/schmidt.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~psyc231/Readings/schmidt.htm&lt;/a> (Note: This paper is not one study but decades of individual studies) </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Some people now feel that they 'must' get a graduate degree to be successful. The B.A. is not a very exclusive credential, weakening its utility as such.</p>

<p>And employers are severely restricted in administering tests in America, see Griggs v. Duke Power Co. (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Company)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Company)&lt;/a>. So colleges do it for them. Griggs v. Duke may have led to increased college enrollment, as employers lacked the tools to filter out the smart, and instead required a college degree instead.</p>

<p>Welcome to the wonderful world of psychometrics. If you're interested in understanding the world and extreme political incorrectness does not intimidate you, I encourage you to delve a bit into the field. If you want to continue to spout platitudes and dogmas, well, continue.</p>

<p>By the way, Occam's Razor is the idea of, if one has two or more theories that explain the facts, take the simplest, meaning that with least assumptions. Also, the theories I generally see espoused are ad-hoc in nature, and not predictive.</p>

<p>And, the leftist goal of trying to send everyone to college (and then for a master's, then ph.d...) renders college meaningless, if everyone can get through it, as is true of every level of education to varying degrees.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Let's accept the 23k$ difference.</p>

<p>Four years private college = about $200,000. 4 years lost wages. 4 year delay in starting one's career.</p>

<p>It sounds like a push.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>We have to only consider wages that you made in that year that you actually saved. You don't come out of those four years of not going to college with your salary times four. You have to pay for living expenses. You probably wouldn't have saved any of it if you made $20k per year.</p>

<p>And there are many other considerations like enjoyment of life in different areas, connections, and enjoyment of your work for the rest of your life.</p>

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<p>Let us not forget that you can't get an advanced degree without an undergrad degree:</p>

<p>
[quote]
and those with advanced college degrees made an average of $78,093.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Also, pertaining to the quality of life, getting a degree secures your income much more soundly than just working your way up in a company (there are few exceptions to this, but let's take the perspective of averages). </p>

<p>The peace of mind generated by knowing you are always competitive in your field due to your degree credentials is priceless. If you don't have the degree credentials, and you skipped college to work your way up the ladder, you are less likely to have peace of mind that you will be able to "weather the storm" if you are to be laid off. Also if all you do is jump into the workforce and stay with the same company your entire career, you are really limiting your options, because when you are in your 40's-50's and the company is now downsizing or whatnot (read: GM), you don't have as many transferrable skills or credentials as those who went to school. This pigeon holes you like nobody's business, because your only education is that of your long time employer, who hasn't trained you how to do anything except "their way". I find the benefit of going to school far outweighs the costs in most circumstances.... even more so if you get a graduate degree.</p>

39

<p>
[quote]
From yesterday's wsj (sure these are counties, not states, but you can get a general idea): Most highly educated county in the country: Arlington Co., Virginia - 35.9% followed by Orange Co. NC (31.7), Montgomery Co. MD (29.8), Tompkins Co. NY (29.8), Alexandria Co, VA (28.2), Howard Co. MD(27.6), Fairfax Co. VA (27.3), Washtenaw Co, MI (26.9), New York Co. NY (26.9), Albermarle Co. VA (26.3)

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<p>That's not right. Not right at all. My county has a higher proportion of Bachellor's recipients (about 45%), much higher than the rest of those... it's not even ranked in the top 10 (ranked in top 20). Here's my county:</p>

<p><a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=05000US37135&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US37%7C05000US37135&_street=&_county=cobb&_cityTown=cobb&_state=04000US13&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geoSelect&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=050&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2005_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=05000US37135&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US37%7C05000US37135&_street=&_county=cobb&_cityTown=cobb&_state=04000US13&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geoSelect&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=050&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2005_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=&lt;/a>

[quote]
DC also has the highest number of children living in Poverty. Must be those degrees

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<p>DC also has alot of single mothers, teen mothers, etc. However, the people at the very top of the income latter tend to be very well off and educated, thus pushing per capita income up, degree rate up, while keeping a high poverty rate.</p>

<p>Same thing happens here in Atlanta: the high ups in Buckhead and much of the Northern side of the city tend to have EXTREMELY wealthy, educated individuals, while having one of the highest poverty rates.</p>

<p>Also, many gen-x and gen-y yuppies are starting to graduate college, and tend to like the city more during their "single 20s." This also pushes Bach rate up while keeping poverty fairly high; new, college-educated people are moving in at a fast rate while the urbanites that have been their for decades leave at a slower pace.</p>

<p>Now, what DOES make DC an anomoly is the fact that it's city size has been shrinking and continues to do so, yet it still has high bach rates.</p>

<p>
[quote]
thats a good point drizz
since the people I know who work in DC, don't live in DC- I wonder if those stats are actually those who make their main residence in Virginia?

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</p>

<p>Those stats are for people in Washington, DC/District of Columbia County.</p>

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<p>Alright, what is in DC? Lots of think tanks, several colleges, and the entire bureaucracy (SP) of the federal government. Of course there will be more college grads. </p>

<p>I don't see a Bachelor's as meaning that much. Or Ivy League colleges either. Its all smoke, mirrors, and tradition. In the REAL world, your degree means nothing past your first job. Your skills, you abilities do. Not what place printed the little slip of paper that hangs in your den.</p>