College Dilemma!!1!one

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>As you can see from my post count, this is my first time here. Please be gentle.</p>

<p>Alright, so here's my dilemma, which I'm hoping some of you could shed some light on. I was accepted at the University of Richmond as a Richmond Scholar for Acting as well as at NYU's Tisch School for Drama, and I'm not sure where to go. </p>

<p>Being a Richmond Scholar grants me full tuition (which would make it easier for me to go to graduate school), a private mentor, study abroad and internship opportunities, Independent Study, a $3000 stipend, and all-around special treatment. The Richmond folks stress that at UR I would receive much greater personal attention than I would at NYU, and that I wouldn't be competing with graduate students and hundreds of undergraduate majors for roles. One of the things I'm afraid of if I go to NYU is not being able to actually perform in productions for this very reason. Another fear, coincidentally enough, is that I won't receive any kind of individual attention due to the size of the Tisch school.</p>

<p>The problem here is that Richmond does not have a very well-known theatre department at all, and it looks even more diminutive compared to Tisch. To me, the Richmond environment seems decidedly "un-arty", with a lot of frat and prep influence that probably hampers the dramatic arts. I kind of doubt that, even as a Richmond Scholar, I would be able to learn even a fraction of what I could at NYU's drama department. Same goes for the connections I could make at Tisch, what with its location and faculty and whatnot. I mean, I probably don't need to enumerate the virtues of the Tisch School, right? </p>

<p>NYU also seems to be a couple notches above Richmond in terms of both academics and prestige. I know very little about study abroad programs for Tischites and, unlike at Richmond, I hear it is difficult to double major at Tisch. Also it's expensive as balls to go to NYU and their financial aid is pathetic, which does not bode well for someone trying to pursue a career in acting.</p>

<p>If we take the money factor out of the equation - for the sake of being hypothetical - which of my two colleges choices do you think I should select: University of Richmond or New York University? If some of you folks could elaborate on the concerns I've listed in this mammoth of a post I would really appreciate it. ARGH STRESS!!</p>

<p>On a completely different note, when should I expect to be notified about which studio I'm in at Tisch?</p>

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<p>'If we take the money factor out of the equation - for the sake of being hypothetical - which of my two colleges choices do you think I should select"</p>

<p>You can’t take the money factor out of this equation if you need financial aid in order to get your education. What kind of offer has NYU put on the table? Just exactly how are you going to pay for that place?</p>

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<p>First, a couple of of the issues you brought up about Tisch in the first part of your post are entirely inaccurate. I say this as a parent of a recent Tisch graduate. </p>

<p>The undergrad and graduate drama students at Tisch do not mix AT ALL. Their classes are entirely different. The productions for undergrads are not open to graduate students and vice versa. As an undergrad, you won’t even notice that the graduate acting program exists. </p>

<p>Next, the size of the school does not impact individual attention. The class sizes in the studios are under 15, just as you would have in a small program. They simply have more classes or sections. The ratio of teacher to student is the same as in a small program. The difference is that you will work with many different faculty over the course of four years and meet more students in classes. It won’t be the same few teachers and same few students all four years. But the amount of individual attention in class, in advising, and so on is significant. All my D’s teachers knew her well. She worked one on one with many of them. The heads of her studio knew her. Even the Dean of Tisch knew her. As an alum, she is currently working closely with a few of the faculty in fact and has been hired by them and given professional opportunities through them. </p>

<p>There are major differences between your two choices. First is if you prefer a BFA or a BA. The experience in each type of theater program would really differ as one is conservatory training that represents about 65% of your coursework and the other is a liberal arts major that represents more like 35% of your coursework. </p>

<p>Further, as you say, NYU is a more academically selective university than U of Richmond. While you can get a fine education at either school, the fact is if you crave a more challenging environment with a certain level of students in class, NYU may appeal more in this regard. It is one thing that also attracted my D to the BFA at NYU as she also was a very good student. </p>

<p>It is possible to double major at Tisch, though not easy to do so. But people do. You also could minor in another subject which is more doable. But if you REALLY care a lot about double majoring, than maybe a BA degree suits your purposes better. </p>

<p>The two schools are located in very different settings. I don’t think you NEED to be in NYC for your four years of college. By the same token, there are many advantages if you do go to school in NYC. It is the center of the theater world and you can see a lot of theater at all levels. You can network in the theater world. Upon graduation, my D did not have to move or learn the ropes in NYC, but just continued on and already knew a ton of people in the industry in NYC. As well, just her peers at Tisch alone are a network of people who are doing great things in theater and so often one thing leads to another between who she has met in NYC, her peers who graduated Tisch, and the professional faculty at Tisch. </p>

<p>So, putting money aside, there are major differences. </p>

<p>Obviously monetarily, there are huge differences considering your financial offer at Richmond. I don’t know your family’s situation but if your parents are willing to send you to NYU and you prefer it for valid reasons, I’d consider attending. </p>

<p>It is a matter of what you want in a college experience and also what they are willing or able to do. </p>

<p>But some of the things you were told about Tisch are not true or substantiated and so I hope I clarified those things for you. I encourage you to visit Tisch and ask questions directly of current students and faculty. The accepted student event is this coming weekend and that is one possible way to do that.</p>

<p>PS, I forgot to address study abroad. If you visit the Tisch site, they have information on the study abroad opportunities. Many students go abroad for a semester and some do it for a summer.</p>

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<p>In your hypothetical situation, I would pick Tisch. I’m most likely going there next year myself, so I’ve been doing some research about it on CC. What I’ve heard is that there are MANY performance opportunities, (student-run, studio performances, etc.) that AREN’T mainstage shows, so you probably shouldn’t worry about not having any chances to perform. As for individual attention, I’ve heard that you’ll get a bunch of that in your individul studio because there will only be a dozen+ people in each class. Also, for studio notification, I read on another thread that they’re going to e-mail everybody by 4/7, which is this Wednesday. Keep in mind, ALL of this is just stuff I’ve read on CC, so it may or may not be correct.</p>

<p>Happymomof1 makes a very valid point, though. If you can’t afford NYU, it’s really not worth it to go into heaps of debt.</p>

<p>Edit: Looks like soozievt posted while I was writing my post. Seems like I got my facts right, though!</p>

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<p>You should be receiving notification of your studio any day now…this week.</p>

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<p>One more thought since you mentioned going to grad school…</p>

<p>When it comes to theater/acting degrees…a BFA is a professional degree. Another option is a BA plus MFA. You wouldn’t need to do a BFA plus MFA. Both are professional degrees. I mean you COULD do that but I tend to see the acting option as EITHER BFA OR BA/MFA. </p>

<p>While my husband and I have graduate degrees and our other other child is getting a graduate degree, our Tisch grad doesn’t need or plan on a graduate degree as she already has a professional degree.</p>

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<p>As someone with a BFA who will soon be entering an MFA program, I have to offer a slightly different perspective than soozievt. It’s true that the BFA was originally conceived as a “terminal” degree on par with the MFA. I think the professional landscape has changed/is changing, however, and that (in certain professional cases) the BFA is not viewed equally. As one Syracuse BFA grad–now pursuing his MFA at Brown–put it to me, in his opinion “The MFA is the new BFA.” I have encountered a number of BFA grads–many from Tisch undergrad, though certainly not exclusively–who have or want to pursue their MFAs.</p>

<p>As many have advised, it’s very important you become as intimately familiar with each school as you can. Track down alumni and talk to them. They’ll often have a more balanced perspective on their training than those in the thick of it. The tuition is a mighty factor to consider with Tisch, especially considering the actor’s lifestyle.</p>

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<p>That is interesting about the “new MFA,” gc03. But don’t most BFA graduates work in the profession for a while before pursuing an MFA?</p>

<p>And could you elaborate on “certain professional cases”?</p>

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<p>That’s true, NJ. Most BFA grads who move on to an MFA do work in the profession for a while (sometimes a long while). I’ve been out and working for two years–on examining my professional goals, I found that graduate school would serve me well in the kind of work I want to pursue. I would venture that anyone, regardless of their BA or BFA status, would be well served to spend some time out of school before going back for graduate training. It’s important you know exactly what you want.</p>

<p>By “certain professional cases” I simply mean that an MFA means more to some directors, casting directors, artistic directors (etc.) than others. I want to refrain from specific examples in this forum, but on a general note, whenever I see a play I make sure to check out the actors’ training in their bios. Doing that gives you a general sense of what certain places look for in the actors they hire.</p>

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<p>1611 - There are a TON of shows put on at NYU, so it’s not like hundreds of drama students competing for just a few roles. There are plently of opportunities to perform.</p>

<p>Re: personal attention - even the large studios cut up the classes to groups of approx. 15. Each semester (at least in Atlantic) they mix the groups up again, so you end up getting to know and work with alot of people. My daughter has gotten plenty of personal attention; I’ve been surprised at how teachers will know what she’s done performing outside of school, like in the summer. They really get to know the kids.</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone can beat NYU’s study abroad program. It is simply amazing. Just google nyu study abroad and their special web site should come up. There are specific programs just for acting, e.g., Amsterdam in the summer and London for a semester, but lots of students, even in Drama, take an academic semester abroad. No problem being away from your studio for a semester. There are so many different cities to choose from, and they offer NYU courses, most with NYU housing, and a sort of concierge on-site. I wish I was in college…</p>

<p>Oh, one more thing - One thing my daughter considered was whether the student body overall cared about or neglected theatre. At one school she had visited, out of 12 people, not one had any idea where the university theatre was. She wanted to be in an environment where theatre mattered and wasn’t just another major stuck in a back hallway. Otherwise, who would go to see them perform? Maybe it’s a silly concern, but it may also be an indication of other things.</p>

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<p>^^^Yeah, at every NYU theater production I have been to at all levels (mainstage, studio based, student run, etc.), they are turning people away who can’t get in to see the show!!</p>

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<p>At NYU, the actors are enrolling in a school of the arts. Tisch is not just training actors, it is developing thinkers, doers and collaborators in the broader community of culture.</p>

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<p>Let me tell you a story! About five years ago, a young woman from my high school chose to turn down other large conservatory programs for the University of Richmond. She, too, received a full ride. While performing in a school show at UR, she was noticed by an agent. The agent immediately cast her in an equity produciton, she received her equity card, then she scored a part in a touring Broadway show, and she was payed 3-figures for that part. Since then, she has been in multiple broadway shows (including the Lion King and The Producers), she acts regularly on As The World Turns, and she lives as a working actress in New York City.</p>

<p>My point is that no matter what college you go to, it’s what you have inside of you and that certain amount of “luck” (right place, right time) that will bring you success. Graduating from a good school, debt-free is an amazing opportunity. All I hear from Tisch graduates is how they are scared to death of how they’ll pay off $200,000 in debt. Doctors have trouble payiing that much off! That amount of money, my friend, would cripple you for life.</p>

<p>Not to mention, the city of Richmond does have an arts scene and professional theatres where you could find work. Tisch is awesome and congrats on your acceptance, but do what’s best for your future. I don’t think any school is work $224,000.</p>

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<p>Billy!,
Just a small nit, but I am curious. 3 figures in payment can be as little as $100, is this what you were referring to?</p>

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<p>In terms of money, we don’t know if this member as a student will be the one who has to finance the loans if he attends NYU. Some families, like ours, the parents are paying all the loans back, including the ones in the students’ names. While we are in debt for our kids’ educations, our kids graduated with NO debt of their own. So, the issue of whether this kid can afford college loans as an actor may not be part of this decision (we don’t know).</p>

<p>Also, I have never heard of “paying off $200,000 in debt” for a college education. That implies no grants and also that a family put NO money of their own toward college. If a family cannot afford any money toward college (an EFC of $0), then the student would have been given at least some need based aid.</p>

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<p>By the way, an agent cannot “cast you in an Equity production.” Agents do not cast you. An agent represents you and can send you out on auditions. For example, my daughter signed with an agent who saw her at the Tisch showcase. Upon graduation, the agent sent her to an audition. The casting people at the audition cast her and it was for Equity and she got the Equity card. The agent did not cast her. </p>

<p>I do agree that one can be a successful actor coming from a variety of colleges or even no college at all.</p>

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<p>Soozievet’s final statement should be noticed. One who goes to college for a BA or BFA in theatre should have some desire for the degree and the overall college experience, and not feel it’s the only way to start a professional career. Because you will come out at age 22 and be competing with actors who have been working professionally the 4 years you were in school. The actor with the talent and ambition to get ahead will do so regardless of how they start. Many ways to skin a cat, as they say. One could just go to NY and study at almost any of the studios NYU contracts with, which offer classes to the public, while waiting on tables at night. What YOU do with the training you’re able to access is far more important than where you get it.</p>

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<p>From what I have read here, I don’t think many 17 - 21 year olds get tons of professional work. The reason is that young-looking actors who are farther into their twenties get almost all the youth roles. </p>

<p>People have posted that it is even hard to get roles when you are a graduate of twenty-two or so, because of the above.</p>

<p>So - all else being equal - I am not sure how much of a concern it is that you would be competing with others who are working while you are in school.</p>

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<p>^^^^Agree with NJTheatreMom on that point. I don’t think those who went to NYC at age 18 and worked from that point forward have an advantage over those who went to college and then entered the professional theater world. If anything, the ones who went to college may end up with more training, preparation and more contacts than those who didn’t. But it is very true that there are not a lot of parts going to those who are 18-22 and these kids are also competing against 22-25 year olds who look young and have all the training under their belt to boot. </p>

<p>My kid graduated Tisch at age 20. She looks young. She is now 21. She is still up against more experienced actors older than herself to play youthful roles. And she’s Equity and there are not a lot of people under 21 who are Equity and so she is competing against older Equity actors to play roles that may even be character ages of “teen”. She is not really competing against younger actors right now.</p>

<p>Her issue is not the competition with other 21 year olds who have been working instead of going to college. Rather, she is competing with 22-26 year olds for parts.</p>

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<p>By the way, as an example, my daughter was cast in an Equity tour immediately following graduation. The cast consisted of young actors (the oldest was 30). Almost all had college degrees (a majority of those were BFAs) and she was the youngest person cast (she was 20, but turned 21 during the rehearsals). You had to 18 or older to go on this tour, but everyone cast (except her) was over 22.</p>