College drug use, binge drinking rise Prescription abuse, pot use both way up

Parents Forum
21

<p>"I am not disputing the study but rather how is that persistence/retention/graduation stats seem so high from this same population? I don't quite know how to evaluate much of this. Anybody?"</p>

<p>It might be worth reading the paper (all 242 pages of it - I already have, but it is my profession). <a href="http://www.casacolumbia.org/supportcasa/item.asp?cID=12&PID=155%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.casacolumbia.org/supportcasa/item.asp?cID=12&PID=155&lt;/a> Most of it is based on data gathered from other studies. On average, one study found students with an A average drink 3-4 drinks per week, which students with D or F averages drink almost 10 drinks per week. Student who experience three or more blackouts have been found to have lower GPAs.</p>

<p>More than 5% of binge-drinking students report having been suspended, 50.6% have gotten behind in their schoolwork as a result of alcohol use, and 68.1% missed a class. More than 50% of frequent binge drinker fall behind in their schoolwork or miss class as a result of their drinking.</p>

<p>What does this tell us? Nothing directly. It suggests that schools with high binge (or, more likely frequent binge drinking or heavy) drinking rates are actually lower in experienced academic quality than their "prestige" rankings might suggest. Persistence/retention/graduation stats are most closely correlated with family income (not on an individual, but on a school-based level). At the same time, there is an association (not correlation, but association) between schools with students of higher family incomes and binge drinking rates.</p>

<p>And, yes, there are MANY high-functioning adult alcoholics and drug addicts. (The study does point to older data about the relationships among college substance use, abuse, and present and future dependence. Lots of interesting "Greek" data as well.)</p>

22

<p>JHS:</p>

<p>I doubt that your daughter would write that drinking as much as possible "while she can" is her top priority in colllege. I also doubt that she does all of those activities while hungover.</p>

<p>My objection is not to drinking in college. My objection is when students voice opinions that drinking takes precedence over a $40,000 a year opportunity to be fully engaged academically. If I suspected that were the case with my daughter, I would pull the plug and say "go drink on your own dime until you are ready for college."</p>

<p>I believe that the former Bates President is correct. IMO, the colleges, for a variety of reasons, are not achieving a successful degree of student engagement in the educational experience.</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
Do you believe there is such a thing as drug or alcohol use, distinct from abuse?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>With alcohol, of course. Basically your body can process one drink per hour. So if you are out for 4 hours and have 4 drinks, you're not going to be messed up. If you are downing shots and slugging back beer bongs, you are going to get very drunk. Yes, I think it's abuse. Your body can't handle it. That's why you get sick and get a hangover - you're basically abusing your body.</p>

<p>If you're taking drugs, you're engaging in dangerous behavior, because you are either:
a) involved in illegal activity that could get you arrested and/or expelled
b) using prescription drugs to get high, which definitely fits my definition of abuse.</p>

<p>Listen, I went to college in a town with 2 bars on every block. The drinking age was 18, and a lot of our going out time was spent in those bars. The kids who were drunk all the time definitely did not do well in school. Those of us who knew our limits and had fun in other ways did do well. </p>

<p>Of my friends who were huge drinkers in college:
One just underwent a liver transplant after being sober for many years;
One is now a heroin addict, after giving up alcohol and replacing it with narcotics;
One nearly died when his pancreas exploded;
The rest are now sober and healthy, after going through much heartache and difficulty due to alcohol abuse.</p>

24

<p>Kids drink because they think it's fun. Period. </p>

<p>And they are too immature, too spoiled, and have too much disposable income, to resist the urge to have fun. </p>

<p>I'm guessing that the vast majority of kids who are attending expensive schools, with parents footing the bill, never ever stop to think about the meaning of that kind of money.</p>

<p>I was also going to add, they not only don't think about the money, but they don't think about squandered opportunities either. But that is part and parcel of being young.</p>

25

<p>"I believe that the former Bates President is correct. IMO, the colleges, for a variety of reasons, are not achieving a successful degree of student engagement in the educational experience."</p>

<p>Environment counts for a lot. Among the usual (for me) recitation of data were some new things I hadn't seen before. One, which goes with my previous comment, is that the argument that a college is "better" as a result of their being higher-ranking (test-scoring) peers likely disappears if a large proportion of them are binge- or heavy drinkers. There is now beginning to be a body of literature on "peer impacts", the academic and other impacts of substance abuse upon those who don't use.</p>

<p>The Greek data suggest interesting interplay of genetics and environment. Binge and heavy drinking (as well as marijuana - twice as high - and cocaine use) are MUCH higher among Greeks than among others (nearly twice as high for women), either on-campus or off-campus. Some of this, however, is associated with the fact that Greeks are more likely to be white, and tend to be wealthier, both associated with higher rates of substance abuse. And there are similarly higher rates of impacts: sexual abuse; unplanned and unprotected sex; accidents; etc. HOWEVER, five years post-college, there is a regress to the norm - future alcoholism rates among Greek binge drinkers is about the same as it is for non-Greeks. So clearly there was something in the environment itself that was favorable toward bingeing behavior. (There are similar, though slightly less stunning, differences in comparing athletes v. non-athletes.)</p>

<p>African-Americans are about half as likely to be either binge drinkers or heavy drinkers as their white counterparts (uncorrected for income). For HBCUs, the rate is even lower than that. But what is most interesting is that there is a cohort of white students at HBCUs, and their substance-abusing rates more closely resemble those of the African-American students at their schools than they do their white counterparts at other schools. While there may be some self-selection going on, this would seem to demonstrate clear peer and environmental impacts, both of which can largely be created through concerted and long-term efforts on the part of college administrations, if they chose.</p>

26

<p>Here's another document that summarizes the data and references the studies that Mini has often let us know about (such as that alcohol binging is a problem in Europe, too, what the racial differences in alcohol use are, etc) for which I am grateful. This one is from the acting surgeon general. </p>

<p>I would think that high achieving and striving students would be concerned about the growing evidence that alcohol affects brain development. Is it because they don't know?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/underagedrinking/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/underagedrinking/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Full Call to Action <a href="http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/underagedrinking/calltoaction.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/underagedrinking/calltoaction.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES OF UNDERAGE DRINKING
The short and longterm consequences that arise from underage alcohol consumption are astonishing in their range and magnitude, affecting adolescents, the people around them, and society as a whole. Adolescence is a time of life characterized by robust physical health and low incidence of disease, yet overall morbidity and mortality rates increase 200 percent between middle childhood and late adolescence/early adulthood. This dramatic rise is attributable in large part to the increase in risk taking, sensation seeking, and erratic behavior that follows the onset of puberty and which contributes to violence, unintentional injuries, risky sexual behavior, homicide, and suicide (Dahl 2004). Alcohol frequently plays a role in these adverse outcomes and the human tragedies they produce. Among the most prominent adverse consequences of underage alcohol use are those listed below. Underage drinking:</p>

<p>Is a leading contributor to death from injuries, which are the main cause of death for people under age 21. Annually, about 5,000 people under age 21 die from alcohol related injuries involving underage drinking. About 1,900 (38 percent) of the 5,000 deaths involve motor vehicle crashes, about 1,600 (32 percent) result from homicides, and about 300 (6 percent) result from suicides (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] 2004; Hingson and Kenkel 2004; Levy et al. 1999; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration [NHTSA] 2003; Smith et al. 1999).</p>

<p>Plays a significant role in risky sexual behavior, including unwanted, unintended, and unprotected sexual activity, and sex with multiple partners. Such behavior increases the risk for unplanned pregnancy and for contracting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), including infection with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS (Cooper and Orcutt 1997; Cooper et al. 1994).</p>

<p>Increases the risk of physical and sexual assault (Hingson et al. 2005). 10</p>

<p>Is associated with academic failure (Grunbaum et al. 2004).</p>

<p>Is associated with illicit drug use (Grunbaum et al. 2004).</p>

<p>Is associated with tobacco use (Shiffman and Balabanis 1995).</p>

<p>Can cause a range of physical consequences, from hangovers to death from alcohol poisoning.</p>

<p>Can cause alterations in the structure and function of the developing brain, which continues to mature into the mid to late twenties, and may have consequences reaching far beyond adolescence (Brown et al. 2000; Crews et al. 2000; De Bellis et al. 2000; Swartzwelder et al. 1995a, 1995b; Tapert and Brown 1999; White and Swartzwelder 2005).</p>

<p>Creates secondhand effects that can put others at risk. Loud and unruly behavior, property destruction, unintentional injuries, violence, and even death because of underage alcohol use afflict innocent parties. For example, about 45 percent of people who die in crashes involving a drinking driver under the age of 21 are people other than the driver (U.S. Department of Transportation Fatality Analysis Reporting System 2004). Such secondhand effects often strike at random, making underage alcohol use truly everybody's problem.</p>

<p>In conjunction with pregnancy, may result in fetal alcohol spectrum disorders, including fetal alcohol syndrome, which remains a leading cause of mental retardation (Jones and Smith 1973). Further, underage drinking is a risk factor for heavy drinking later in life (Hawkins et al. 1997; Schulenberg et al. 1996a), and continued heavy use of alcohol leads to increased risk across the lifespan for acute consequences and for medical problems such as cancers of the oral cavity, larynx, pharynx, and esophagus; liver cirrhosis; pancreatitis; and hemorrhagic stroke (reviewed in Alcohol Research & Health 2001). 11"</p>

27

<p>"Plays a significant role in risky sexual behavior, including unwanted, unintended, and unprotected sexual activity, and sex with multiple partners." </p>

<p>What's the probelm again???</p>

28

<p>Moonmaid....so getting drunk is alcohol abuse?</p>

<p>It's obvious. Drinking is a problem only if it interferes with the ability to go to class and function normally. There's nothing wrong with getting trashed on the weekend and having a good time. As long as you don't NEED alcohol to have fun, then drinking is not a problem.</p>

<p>It's parents like you, that limit their children's exposure to alcohol and risk in general, that are responsible for the extreme lack of maturity among our young people. If kids aren't free to make mistakes and learn while young, they will be forced to do it during adulthood, which is a far less supportive environment.</p>

29

<p>Nurse Harvey's Gripe Mixture. Relieves Wind and Griping Pains. Settles upset tummies. Nurse Harvey's pleasant tasting formula gently and effectively relieves the symptoms of Wind, Griping Pains and Tummy Upsets. It has been used by grateful mothers for generations.</p>

<p>traditionally given to babies for the relief of wind and indigestion, gripe mixture got a very bad press a few years ago, when its effectiveness was revealed to be largely due to its alcohol content!</p>

<p>our baby loved it! we found it soothing as well. that early enough for you, mohu?</p>

30

<p>mohuohu: brilliant point. could not agree more with you.</p>

<p>coming from my perspective as a high school senior, lots of kids drink. there's no denying it. teaching your kids to be responsible about drinking and about how to know their limits is a great idea. </p>

<p>but keep in mind that drinking to excess is rare even among the high schoolers that i know, and around here it's easy to get alcohol and even easier to find somewhere to drink it w/o having to drive somewhere. no one likes puking. no one likes feeling sick. it is, however, fun to drink; if it weren't, why would anyone do it?</p>

<p>in my mind, the key to alcohol success is this: know your limits. be responsible. </p>

<p>when you've raised responsible kids, and you know if you have or not, you should have very very little to worry about. i'd say the vast majority of parents who care about their kids' futures to go through this site have done an excellent job at raising healthy, responsible kids. even though some do binge drink way too much, don't let the few that continually drink irresponsibly spoil the reputation of the majority. </p>

<p>happy posting, -kristin</p>

31

<p>So the recipe for responsible drinking is to start young, is that it? Working-class people of my grandparents' generation started drinking when they were young. Since none of my grandparents went to school for long, they were independent at a young age, and bars were part of the social life. Unfortunately, my family members REALLY like to be social; three of four grandparents drank themselves to death, two before they were 50. Both grandfathers abandoned their families because raising kids got in the way of hanging out with their bar buddies, condemning both of my parents to poverty.</p>

<p>Just bad genes? Maybe, but if so, a lot of other people share those genes. I grew up in a very different milieu than most of you student posters, and I cannot count the number of lives I saw ruined by "sociable" drinking. What I find hard to understand is why so many young people with all the advantages that education and money have to offer, are repeating the same mistakes uneducated people have been making forever.</p>

<p>Melodramatic? Exaggerations? I call it experience. And I do not hesitate to pass on the lessons to my children.</p>

<p>Keep at it, interesteddad. I couldn't agree with you more.</p>

32

<p>Like I said in the first page, parents should be setting an example to their children as moderate drinkers. Drink a glass of wine frequently at dinner in front of the kids. When they turn 16 start to offer them a glass of wine with dinner. Associate alcohol with relaxation, tradition and family bonding. The dad could have a beer with the son while watching football on TV, as part of the father/son bonding time.</p>

<p>I remember going to a friend's house during senior year of high school, hanging out in his basement. There was 3 of us. It was around 9pm or so on a Friday night and the dad came down with a bottle of wine and the car keys. He said, you guys can either have this bottle of wine, or you have the car keys and go out somewhere. That was a perfect example of a parents showing how drinking and driving are to be performed separately. In the end we chose the keys but we could have chosen the wine and gotten drunk (not sh_t-faced) , peacefully, safely and had a lot of fun. No one would have been hurt, and we would have been able to experiment with alcohol and its limits in a safe supportive environment.</p>

<p>It's really not quite hard. It's all about association. Get to the kids head before the dangerous binge drinking party scene in college does.</p>

33

<p>Here's my experience in my family involving drinking in college. My oldest brother admittedly drank quite a bit in college, but did very well and now works at a hedge fund in new york. My second oldest brother was in a fraternity, drank more than even the oldest brother and now works in finance. The middle brother drinks more than any one of us, does fine in classes, and is now interviewing for jobs in New York.</p>

<p>They don't drink to relax anymore, one of them watches and analyzes basketball games for fun, one watches movies for fun because that's what he's trying to get a job in, and the one who works in finance works in finance so he doesn't have any fun. But none of them will say they wasted their time in college, or that they wasted our parents money. We went to college, and part of college is having fun.</p>

<p>Drinking has never stopped me from doing work, and when I have work I don't drink. People might say I have too much time on my hands if I drink a lot, and I respectfully disagree. I grade for classes, hold a research position in a lab on campus, and have four of the hardest classes I've ever taken. I consistently work from 9:30AM to at least 5PM everyday, and then I get to go home and do my homework. And after I'm done with all that guess what I do, hang out with friends. And yes, occasionally I will drink. I work hard to achieve the free time I have.</p>

<p>Drinking can be a problem in college, but it can also be a perfectly normal aspect to life as long as work always is a priority. Once you pass up work for drinking that's when it crosses the line.</p>

34

<p>HBO has just starting airing a multi-film documentary about addiction. Looks to be excellent - is being broadcast on TV and also is viewable on HBO.com.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031402500.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031402500.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.hbo.com/addiction/thefilm/index.html?current=5%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hbo.com/addiction/thefilm/index.html?current=5&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

35

<p>I agree with Kassos. Both my parents went to seminary and have never had a sip of alcohol. They made it such a taboo, that the boneheaded kid I am, I had to try it. Now I've done my few binges, but I'm sick of that. Now I just want to enjoy a drink or two with my friends and just enjoy being with them. I have visions of Christmas dinners with my wife and family, a few drinks, and just enjoying everyone.</p>

<p>But sadly, I think the problem is that most kids don't have the sense to see anything outside of binge drinking. I'm sick of it. It just doesn't taste that good, and you do incredibly stupid things. I'm sick of looking through my phone the next morning and having to apologize to a few people for being such an idiot. I think most kids who have problems with drinking in college never have this revelation.</p>

<p>My point is, that if my parents had shown me the whole moderation thing (instead of alcohol is evil thing) I would have skipped the whole binging stage and be where I am now.</p>

36

<p>Looks like parents vs. kids on this topic. It's near-and-dear to me but I've just been lurking, so far.
My oldest left her first school partly because of how pervasive binge-drinking had become in the social life at at that school. Her room-mate kept gallons of booze in her room with the full knowledge of the RA. I'd be treated to mpeg video of the roomie stumbling home or crawling up stairs, unable to form coherent sentences. Luckily my daughter, in sharing these shocking videos, was reassuring me that she was not falling under the peer pressure that had sent two freshman on her floor to the hospital within the first month of school, with one being sent home. I'm not a tea-totaler but I have let my actions speak for me with my kids with respect to alcohol and drugs. I attended one college often referred to in drinking/party rankings as a "professional school among amateurs". I did my share of "rolls" to nearby women's colleges in the back of a rented truck accompanied by a barrel of grain-alcohol punch. We even had moonshine available. I can personally attest to the fact that the experience of "rolling" to a girls' school with a bunch of drunks was much more personally rewarding if one remained sober! I can make a social beer last a near eternity, but I only remember being drunk enough to toss my cookies one time in my life. I spent far more time as the designated driver--before that euphemism became commonplace--and only once was I the designated drivee. I'm happy my kids were able to make an intelligent choice on their own, but I owe much of it to their contemporaries who made bad choices and therefor became unintended bad examples. Growing up in an area where parents buying alcohol for their teenagers' parties has been the norm, and where holding a falsified drivers' license is considered almost a teen right-of-passage, it amazes me that this never became an issue with my kids. It wasn't me, other than by example. I never had those heart-to-heart scare talks, I just brought it up in normal conversation. I don't promote ignoring the issue, but simply sharing my experience with smoking and drinking with my kids seems to have had the desired effect. I know the dismissive attitude expressed by many kids here won't simply pass with maturity (I know many adults who still wrestle with this problem they don't even realize or admit is a problem). But I hope the point of epiphany hits them before an accident or health problem drives the point home instead.</p>

37

<p>Posted by SV2: "I would think that high achieving and striving students would be concerned about the growing evidence that alcohol affects brain development. Is it because they don't know?"</p>

<p>As a parent I agree with you it's VERY important. But I can pretty much guarantee many college age kids (most!) reading about these scary consequences of drinking would digest it, but it wouldn't change their behavior, not one bit. For one thing college age kids are invincible, nothing is going to happen to them. Same reasoning for my daughter going to her tanning booth...in spite of my protest, and in spite of the fact she knows sun and radiation can eventually cause cancer at worst and wrinkles at best, these are NOT going to happen to her.</p>

<p>Kids go away to college expecting the drinking scene to be a normal part of college life...the fun part. The last couple years of high school weekend nights are spent looking and hoping for that elusive house where the parents aren't home. In my area going into the woods is popular, never mind it's 20 degrees...there are well known spots kids have gone for years. Now in college they have alcohol right there, and they don't have to worry about driving.</p>

38

<p>kassos: it's clear that you and some of the other younger posters have a much more mature attitude than many of the othehr young people who engage in more frequent binge drinking. I do agree that "it's all about association" and that we as parents and educators need to "get to the kids head" early so that when they find themselves in environments that encourage drinking but particularly excessive or binge drinking, they can make better choices. </p>

<p>What I have problems with is that your (and Prof. Hanson's) way of thinking do not go far enough and focus only on limited aspects of "the problem" - and mostly seem to be based on an "if you can't fight them, then join them" sort of mentality; a variation of this thinking would be the "kids will be kids" thinking.</p>

<p>One problem I have with the kassos/Hanson camp is that their argument is based on a belief that during the high school years, the parents are the primary role model for their kids. When kids hit adolescence, parents start to take a back seat as far as how much influence they have. I also do not believe that there is (or should be) a strong correlation between alcohol use and bonding among family members. A father and son can just as easily "bond" without a can of beer... Yes, parents must be good role models when it comes to drinking. Yes, kids must see responsible drinking in their families as they grow up and continuing through their teen years, but parents' impact is much greater during their pre-teen years, and one's peers become far more influential during adolescence, and often easily negate many of the positive influences the parents have. I do not agree that more permissive attitudes on the part of parents is the answer. Although we should not be so authoritarian as to invoke a complete rebellion by our teens, we also should not be your drinking buddies whether in moderation or otherwise.</p>

<p>Another problem I have with this line of thinking is the idea that teens can not just learn by example but apparently, must learn by experience. What I am hearing is that teens will only learn to drink responsibly if they are allowed to drink at even younger ages when they are even less mature than the 18 year olds who once they hit college suddenly seem incapable of such "learning" (how many "binges" does it take, after all, to learn moderation? If all 18 year olds learned this after only one or two times, would there even be a problem???)</p>

<p>The "problem" as weenie so succinctly said, is that "Kids drink because they think it's fun. Period." Not to relax, not to bond, certainly NOT to learn moderation. Kassos even demonstrates this in his example where the Dad presents kids with two options - to have fun. Sit around and drink (until you get drunk, but that's ok since you are safe at home and not out driving) OR take the car keys and DO SOMETHING ELSE that does not involve drinking. You chose the something else at that time. Good choice. At the time, that appeared to you to be more fun. But looking back now, suddenly drinking would be the more fun choice.<br>
There is just something seriously wrong if our definition of "fun" - in and of itself - means sitting around and getting drunk - just for the sake of getting drunk. And that attitude of fun is not something taught by parents who try to set a good example but do not allow underage kids to drink. However, I fear it is being reinforced when the parents adopt more permissive attitudes towards drinking and allow their hs kids to drink, since this is also giving them the messge that the reason to drink is because IT (getting drunk, not the accompanying activity, such as having a beer during a game) is what is fun. </p>

<p>Yep, it's definitely association. But let's get it straight as to where and how and what those associations really are, in the first place, and let's ask ourselves whether those associations are socially desirable. And let's not blame the easiest targets. This is a far more complex problem than that.</p>

39

<p>"What I am hearing is that teens will only learn to drink responsibly if they are allowed to drink at even younger ages when they are even less mature than the 18 year olds who once they hit college suddenly seem incapable of such "learning" (how many "binges" does it take, after all, to learn moderation?"</p>

<p>We have lots of evidence, both in the U.S. and in Europe, that indicates the opposite. It's a nice fantasy, but it is is only that.</p>

<p>(not a teetotaller here).</p>

40

<p>Young people: Although I agree with you to some extent, let me assure you that the "modeling moderation" approach does not work as well as you think it might. That's exactly what my parents did with me. (Actually, my mother didn't drink at all, but I didn't figure that out until I was an adult.) It was pretty much the norm for most families in the world in which I grew up, and it's the way I have treated my children. It didn't stop me or my friends from going through a fairly long period of over-consumption of alchohol, and it hasn't inoculated my kids, either. </p>

<p>In my generation, most of us came through the college (and high school) binge period more or less OK. But not all of us, and that's the problem, or one of them.</p>

<p>Really, three things contributed to cutting back my drinking a lot:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>As time went on, it became harder and harder to ignore the fact that even if I wasn't suffering any terrible consequences from drinking, other people whom I knew and loved were, and I had some moral responsibility not to enable their self-destruction. "Hey, nothing bad has happened to ME" is a pretty sorry excuse. Plus, it wasn't fun to watch, and I wasn't into drinking alone.</p></li>
<li><p>I got more honest with myself. Just like you, I could trot out my list of accomplishments to show that weekend binge drinking wasn't affecting my academic or work performance, but I knew it was. And I realized that it was affecting my emotional "performance" even more. I loved parties, I loved tipsy shiny girls, but the last thing I wanted was to be in a relationship where nothing worked without alcohol -- and I saw that happening to people all around me. Also, I told myself that drinking relaxed me, but actually I was a lot more volatile when I was drinking, and I paid less attention to other people than I wanted to. (When I had kids, that really became apparent. I realized through experience that even having a beer at dinner lowered the quality of my attention to them, and my patience. My beer-at-dinner rate went way down.)</p></li>
<li><p>I got more comfortable with myself. I didn't need to "loosen up" or "blow off steam" or "kick back"; I was who I was. I was in a relationship, I wasn't trying to seduce people anymore, or to give myself liquid courage for that nerve-wracking process. Or, for that matter, to give myself rose-colored glasses: There were far more people to whom I was attracted when I was a little drunk. That wasn't so bad -- who doesn't want to live in a sexy, exciting world? -- but it wasn't exactly fair to the objects of my attention, and it wasn't a good way to live. It's tough to look someone in the eye and say, "Sweetie, that was the booze talking, not me." So maybe you don't look her in the eye, maybe you lie a little. Etc. And she (or he) to you. And after all, maybe the booze helps the real you come out . . . . Not a good way to live.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>So . . . I agree that moderation is appropriate. I'm not a teetotaller, and I don't necessarily expect my kids to be, either (and it wouldn't matter much if I did expect it, anyway). But you have to be honest, with yourselves and with others, and there are clues all over your postings that, just as I described my own child, you aim at moderation but maybe you miss a lot. Don't be defensive about it, and don't be self-deluding. (Defensive and self-deluding is how many of your posts read.) Live the right way, don't just pretend to.</p>