<p>It’s a small amount over four years, but the bulk of the Scholars are incoming Frosh, which to me is merit. (No additional Frosh application required?)</p>
<p>[RCPRS</a> Prospective Students](<a href=“Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Cornell Commitment | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University)</p>
<p>Well, she was a top student, so “yes” she did apply to a lot of schools that were reach schools for everyone. Also, I don’t believe she applied to Pomona or anywhere binding early, because they are strapped financially her parents felt they needed to be able to compare financial aid options to go with the best one. But that’s the advice given here on the CC Boards all the time.</p>
<p>Hey, I’m just passing on what the Mom said about her kid not getting in, and who am I to say there may or may not be something to it. I fully expected to hear her daughter would be admitted to Stanford, Yale, Reed, Oberlin or Pomona, for sure. But I didn’t see her essays, her recommendations, or her interviews – although it is hard to believe she bombed, she is a bright & talented young woman, and her GPA & test scores were tippy top. The mom is totally convinced it was because they needed the full ride. And no, like many people going through the college process for the very first time, she applied only where she REALLY wanted to go – no state colleges (party schools), no UC’s (too big & impersonal), no financial safeties (knew she would qualify for lots of FA), just small prestigious liberal arts colleges, & I think Harvard, Yale & Stanford. But she was not the only one!</p>
<p>As for the term “need BLIND”, I think it is mostly the ivy’s and schools with very big endowments that are able to make the statement that they offer need-blind admissions & FA. So, she just flat-out didn’t get into her Big-3 (HYS). You’re right that financial need would not have played a role at the Ivys. </p>
<p>FYI. Here is a quote from the Pomona College Financial Aid Q&A page:</p>
<p>“9. Does applying for financial aid hurt my chances of admission?” “Absolutely not! Pomona is one of only a handful of institutions in the nation committed to both need-blind admissions and awarding scholarships and financial aid that meet 100% of the demonstrated need of every admitted student.”</p>
<p>Notice the word “handful”. So, yes the Ivys and a few well-endowed schools are need-blind, but in my 3 years of reading these boards, I have learned that MOST colleges, unfortunately, cannot afford to be need blind AND award F.A. to meet 100% of demonstrated need. Don’t some say clever things like they are need-blind in admissions, but leave out the part about how much help they will give you if you are admitted. Kind of like the reputation of NYU or Georgetown – “Okay, you’re accepted. Hope you can pay for it.”</p>
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It sounds like the money is intended for research -related activities and is a fund they can get money from rather than a scholarship that is handed to them or a reduction in tuition.
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<p>Tugtraveller, your friend’s story just doesn’t hold up. Even need aware schools are usually only applying the need assessment to the wait list or the bottom of the applicant pool, not to students like the one you describe.</p>
<p>High scores and good grades are not enough for admission to those super-elite schools - she probably was found lacking in other areas like ECs, essay, recommendations, etc. Even Pomona is very much a crap shoot even for elite students - the admit rate for women is only 12%.</p>
<p>Bluebayou-
The CPRS is the kind of research fund to which I made reference. It cannot be used to pay for tuition, annual R&B or the other types of expenses for which one could normally use a merit award, so the real monetary advantage is that participants don’t have to find a summer job or worry about finding grants to fund their student research. Many schools have similar funds available to students, they’re just not guaranteed up front. To my mind they’re very different from merit scholarships because they don’t reduce a student’s EFC.</p>
<p>Research Support Account
Students admitted as freshman have access to up to $8,000 to support research and related activities as long as they are full-time enrolled undergraduates at Cornell. Upperclass-admitted students have access to $5,000. Students who plan and budget well can receive wages, purchase necessary supplies, receive a living expense grant for at least one summer of research, as well as attend at least one conference.</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>Expected Savings Replacements (ESRs)
Students who engage in full-time, program-supported research over the summer are able to apply for a one-time Expected Savings Replacement, or “ESR.” The purpose of the ESR is to replace income that students were not able to save because they were completing an unpaid summer of research. Limited ESRs are available.</p>
<p>“The mom is totally convinced it was because they needed the full ride. And no, like many people going through the college process for the very first time, she applied only where she REALLY wanted to go – no state colleges (party schools), no UC’s (too big & impersonal), no financial safeties (knew she would qualify for lots of FA), just small prestigious liberal arts colleges, & I think Harvard, Yale & Stanford. But she was not the only one!”</p>
<p>This was obviously a bad strategy. She needed to apply to a few schools where she was in the top 75% or more, not average. That’s the way to get a full ride.</p>
<p>Full rides are extremely rare. </p>
<p>In my kids’ experience, many private colleges were willing to offer 50% off tuition merit scholarships if a student was in the top 10 or 15% of their applicant pool. Part of the reason they do this is to compete financially with the honor colleges of the in-state flagship universities.</p>
<p>Regarding Tufts:
In their massive fact book it is stated that 22% of families the receive FA have an income higher then 150K. (page 102)
I am not sure if that is loans only FA or some direct contribution too. Also not sure of the “amount”.</p>
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<p>That is just Pomona spin, to make themselves look better, but in fact it is not clear. Their statement is correct insofar as it only applies to international students. There truly are only a handful of US colleges that are need-blind and meet full need for internationals.</p>
<p>OTOH, there are actually several handfuls of colleges that are need-blind and meet full need for domestic students; indeed, there are ~30 such colleges.</p>
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<p>Georgetown is one of those 30-40 need-blind, meets-full need colleges. But, like most private colleges, GU calculates your need as they see fit. GU uses home equity as an asset, which reduces financial “need”. Stanford (and I believe Pomona) cap home equity in their calculation of need, as do some (many?) of the Ivies. Thus, GU is less generous than the well-endowed colleges.</p>
<p>NYU does not meet full financial need, and states it clearly on their website.</p>
<p>Tufts is need-aware, for the last ~10% of their admits.</p>
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<p>Well, maybe not said in those exact words, but there is the myth of the ‘doughnut hole’: that the only families who can afford elite schools like Harvard are those that are very poor, because of the generous financial aid policies, or the very rich, because they have the means to afford full tuition. If you are ‘middle class’, then the claim is that you don’t get financial aid to make it affordable, but you can’t pay full tuition. </p>
<p>There are a number of threads in the Parents Forum which have claimed that only if I didn’t work so hard or make money, my kid could go [elite school name here]. Again, not saying that the poor are lucky, but essentially implying that only if I were poor, my kids could go to their ‘dream school’. </p>
<p>Also, there are those threads which complain that ‘full pay’ families subsidize families who are not full pay.</p>
<p>In addition, these generous financial aid policies of schools with endowments in the billions is often taken to be the norm for financial aid. The reality is quite different. Most less selective schools with endowments in the millions give way more in merit than they do in need based aid.</p>
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<p>Yup, it is the common wisdom on cc, but there are few of us that disagree with that wisdom. And this is one case. An ED to Pomona might have been a game-changer. Without the ED, she had practically no shot at that college.</p>
<p>"None of the Ivies or NESCACs give merit scholarships, although some have named scholarships as part of their need-based financial aid packages or merit based funds available for things like summer research. "</p>
<p>Almost but not quite. Trinity offers one full-ride per year (tuition, room, board, books stipend plus summer research) but it’s only for Illinois residents so it’s quite specific. </p>
<p>[About</a> the Scholarship | Scholarships for Illinois Residents, Inc. | SIRI Website](<a href=“http://www.illinois-scholars.org/about-the-scholarship]About”>http://www.illinois-scholars.org/about-the-scholarship)</p>
<p>Bluebayou wrote, "btw: legacy only works if a student ED’s. Did she submit an early app to Pomona? If not it is a clear indication to them that they are not her first choice. " </p>
<p>Is this something you know specifically about Pomona and, if so, where did you hear it? It is <em>not</em> true across the board. There are schools that specifically say </p>
<p>According to Pomona’s common data set, interest is not considered and legacy status is. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/administration/institutional-research/common-data-set/11-12/C-Admissions.pdf[/url]”>http://www.pomona.edu/administration/institutional-research/common-data-set/11-12/C-Admissions.pdf</a></p>
<p>^^^The Lincoln award is an unusual case. It’s not actually administered or awarded by Trinity College. Instead it’s an award made by Scholarships for Illinois Residents, Inc. an alumni group. While awards are only made to students accepted to Trinity the college does not control this fund. It’s not substantially different from other outside scholarships except that the foundation makes awards only to Trinity students instead of students at a range of colleges. </p>
<p>“A Lincoln Award is contingent upon being accepted and enrolling at Trinity College. Although the award of this scholarship is independent of the College’s own deliberations concerning admission to Trinity or its award of any financial aid, we work closely with Dean of Admissions in evaluating the candidates for a Lincoln Award. To avoid duplication in applying for a Lincoln Award while also applying for admission to Trinity College, applicants for a Lincoln Award need only authorize the College to share and discuss with us the contents of their admissions application file.”</p>
<p>This discussion is very interesting. We all love our kids, and we all want the best for them. That is very obvious throughout this thread. The interesting thing about this discussion is that it is very hard for us loving parents to divorce ourselves from some of the frustration and guilt we maybe experiencing from the “sending your kid to college scenario.” The facts are the cost of a college education are high. Whether you are talking 20,000 a year or 63,000. Heck I refuse to pay over $25,000 for a car. Yes, some of us are frustrated and upset because we cant give our children what they think they want or what we think they have earned. We personally told our son he could not go to Dartmouth because we didnt feel it was practical to spend $63,000.00 dollars a year on an undergraduate degree. You say why did we let him apply to that school? He has been attending a private college prep high school, on scholarship, for the last 4 years and part of his contract requires him to apply to 5 top tier schools. He also applied to 5 other universities which we knew gave merit based scholarships and one in state public university. He received several merit based scholarship offers from the other 5 universities. All of them at the at the 50% mark approximately. Then he was invited to compete for a full tuition scholarship at one of the private universities. Thank the Lord, he was chosen and will be attending this school in the fall. He was very unhappy with us originally but he is coming around to the idea of going to this new school. Does it bother me that I wasnt financially able to give him what he wanted ? Yes and no. Even if we could write a check for 63,000 dollars and not miss it I dont think I would. There has to be a limit to the raising cost of college. I read the article that start this thread and the author states tuition cost were raising faster than the rate of inflation. Even if you have the foresight to start planning for college before your kids are born there is no way you could keep up. So what do we do? By the way my D graduates next year and she wont be getting merit based scholarships. Help.</p>
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<p>I agree with you on the 1st part. But, ED to Pomona has risk too. What if the package is not good enough? </p>
<p>We are more than satisfied with the financial aid offices for one of the top 10 and one of top 20 schools this cycle. The staff members are polite and considerate. The NPC is spot on and in one case DS3 was awarded $4K per year merit aid. We are very grateful even he chose the full ride at our state flagship school with a top program in his major. The state flagship full ride scholarship is very competitive now. The student has a real shot only if he/she has the top stats along with meaningful EC’s and awards (individual or small team not the spell bow or knowledge master types) in the state or national level.</p>
<p>Like I said, I have STILL never seen anyone on CC complaining about the lucky poor. Referencing threads without actually referencing them only supports my comment. Someone commenting that full-pays subsidize those on FA is a far cry from viewing the poor as lucky. As someone said earlier on this thread about another story, I’m not buying it.</p>
<p>Those of us with low six-fugure incomes are used to subsidizing those with less with our taxes and other fees. It doesn’t mean we think the poor are lucky. It just means that we fully support our families and many others. We are intelligent enough to recognize this and usually work hard enough appreciate what we have.</p>
<p>For a student who is top of the top, and whose parents whose parents have the money according to fin aid formulas to pay for college and therefore gets little or no financial aid, yes, it looks like those kids whose families’ finances qualify them for financial aid, and when such kids do get accepted to school that give nice financial aid colleges, are better off than they are. Because in that particular situation, they are. Pure and simply, you are not going to get financial aid if your family doesn’t qualify for it, and those kids whose family’s do can get money, especially if they are top candidates. Never mind the previous life amenities, at that moment when one kid has a full ride to Harvard and the other is full pay, and family won’t do it, the one with that full ride, is sitting pretty. </p>
<p>How often it happens, is a whole other thing. But that category of kids whose parents won’t or can’t pay but the numbers say they can, are in a bad situation, in that they do not qualify for financial aid. Same for those whose parents refuse to fill out the forms.</p>
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<p>That’s what the financial aid calculators are for. But in any event, if the package is “not good enough”, just reject the offer.</p>
<p>I totally agree that there is a risk, but for a Pomona legacy not to ED, is darn near auto WL. A few years ago, a neighbor – brightest kid that one will ever meet – was accepted into every college that he applied, including Y, and full merit money at other Top 20 colleges; his one non-acceptance was Pomona, which was a WL. His dad was a graduate of Pomona, and his grandfather even had a name on a campus building. He applied RD.</p>
<p>Pomona makes it clear that demonstrated interest is taken into account. And obviously, the reverse must be true: demonstrated dis-interest (by not ED’ing) is also taken into account. Sure, an applicant may wish to compare and negotiate offers, but to a meets-full-need school, that is unnecessary from their perspective.</p>
<p>There some schools, Penn is another one, where you have to apply ED to get the legacy edge. They are open about it. But for a family who is looking for the best deal and not want to deal with the angst of trying to find a cost and draw the line there, ED is not the way to go. </p>
<p>But Pomona is need blind. The young woman was not denied due to need.</p>