College Funding Advisors

Paying for College
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<p>^^^</p>

<p>I didn’t say that those should be the only financial safeties. Did you read the sentences right before that? I said that the student should apply to 2-3 financial safety schools that they know FOR SURE are affordable. So, the parent picks aren’t the only affordable picks. There have been many posts where the “parent picks” (whether they be financial safeties, matches, reaches), have sometimes ended up being the best or only affordable choice for the school. </p>

<p>I think few kids would prefer ending up at a CC when their own choices don’t work out, over attending a Parent Pick that is an affordable and better option.</p>

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<p>For those safety schools…it is VERY important that the school be a school the student wants to attend AND that the family can afford. </p>

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<p>If the STUDENT picks 2-3 schools like this, why would there be the need for the parents to add more schools to the applications list?</p>

<p>I don’t agree that there should be a “parent choice” unless it’s for a different reason. We asked each of our kids to apply to one school we mutually agreed upon because in the case of DS we wanted a choice outside of the restrictive major he chose, and for DD we wanted one school closer to home…both were mutually agreed upon IN CASE our kids changed their minds. Both found a school that we agreed on…they applied. Neither attended but the option was there if they changed their minds.</p>

<p>The hardest school to choose is that safety school. Many folks suggest building the college ap list from the Safety UP…pick that safety first…actually pick two. It’s nice to have choices if push comes to shove.</p>

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<p>*I said that the student should apply to 2-3 financial safety schools that they know FOR SURE are affordable.</p>

<p>If the STUDENT picks 2-3 schools like this, why would there be the need for the parents to add more schools to the applications list?*</p>

<p>I know that it may seem unnecessary for the the parents to include a Parent pick or two that may also be a financial affordable, but it a number of cases, the parent picks ends up being the best choice/deal. </p>

<p>If you noticed, I didn’t use the words “financial safeties” in regards to the “parent picks”… I just used the word “affordable”…so those aren’t the “financial safeties” that we often recommend. </p>

<p>More importantly, my post was in response to a situation where affordability is very important because EFC isn’t likely affordable and avoiding debt was a consideration. For a family willing to pay their EFC (or more), then that’s a different situation. </p>

<p>Attending the “affordable parent pick” may happen because students often choose financial safeties that either don’t turn out to be real financial safeties, or they’ll choose financial safeties that they claim that they won’t mind attending but come spring, then don’t want to attend there either. How many times have we heards kids say, “my financial safeties were my state schools, but now that those are my only affordable choices, I don’t want to go there because everyone from my high school goes to those schools.”…or some other similar story. </p>

<p>I’m not going to argue with anyone about this. If a parent doesn’t want to do include a parent pick that’s also financially affordable (when money is a huge concern), then don’t. I just think that when money is a big concern (which is the case with the OP), then relying only on what a 17/18 year old says is his/her financial safeties can be a risky affair when money is a considerable concern.</p>

<p>With an income of $150k, there are very few schools that will give this student “free money”…maybe only HYPS would…and those are very hard to get into. therefore, in cases like that, I think a student needs more affordable options.</p>

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<p>We had “parent picks” also - I gave my daughter a list of 20 schools and told her she had to apply to 2 of them. In our case, these were schools I was confident would give significant merit aid. Some were also impractical to visit until after acceptances/offers, and she was hesitant to apply to schools she hadn’t visited. She ended up liking the 2 schools from my list, and one even made her “final 2” (but not final 1).</p>

<p>For the OP, I really don’t believe there are many advisors out there who can match the collective wisdom of CC.</p>

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<p>LoveMyPuppies, you could get some ideas from the graphics with this story in the New York Times today. Besides the advice on CC, they are the best tools I’ve seen for finding the most generous schools for merit aid:</p>

<p><a href=“A Rise in Students Receiving Merit Awards - The New York Times”>A Rise in Students Receiving Merit Awards - The New York Times;

<p>Click on the graphic link to the left of the story and you can can sort each column and see which of the more than 600 schools offer merit aid to the highest percentage of freshmen or give the highest average awards. You can also see whether each school has raised or lowered its awards since 2007-08, right before the recession.</p>

<p>The graphic is at: [Colleges</a> and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com”>Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com)</p>

<p>It’s also worth checking the Education Life section in today’s NYT paper for another graphic that filters out most of the small colleges and lists the top 100 merit-aid schools that have at least 2,000 undergraduates, give awards to at least 10% of freshmen and provide average amounts of at least $5,000. The data all comes from the College Board.</p>

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<p>Sometimes parents do have picks for reasons. My friend and her DH are alums from a small liberal arts college that would not have gone on their DD’s lists. They asked that their girls please consider the schools and give it a go. The second one got a very nice merit scholarship that made the school a top contender and is good for a few years, should she change her mind and want to transfer there. Neither girl ended up there, but both ended up with it high on their lists, and also brought up the standard of awards on their lists, in addition to giving one a very nice future option.</p>

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<p>LoveMyPuppies - </p>

<p>Just in case you’re not already convinced, reading through all the replies you’ve received should show you that, unless you find a private consultant who suffers from multiple personality disorder, you will find a much broader range of views in this forum than you will ever get from one person. Plenty for you to pick and choose from . . . and decide which opinions make sense to you.</p>

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<p>Back to civilization after a weekend of camping, and wow – I was amazed at the response. I would like to thank everyone for your helpful suggestions and the great links. I will use experience with my firstborn to give back. </p>

<p>Quote:
Encourage your son to apply to a mix of schools - some where he’ll be guaranteed substantial merit aid (if not a full ride!)
Dodgers Mom, how do I find out where he would be “quaranteed” to get it?</p>

<p>One thing I still don’t get. Even with the EFC of 35K we would still have the need at most private schools (60K COA – 35K EFC = 25K need). Are you saying we don’t qualify for need based aid unless we go to a good merit school? This would leave us with loans of 20K for need and about 20K for EFC. Am I correct? Forgive me if I am asking the obvious. It looks like we are better off at any state school with full pay.</p>

<p>Best wishes,
LMP</p>

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<p>I wrote a thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html&lt;/a&gt; on a recent real life experience with my cousin’s son going to college.</p>

<p>Your EFC is just the number FAFSA generates for eligibility for Federal grants. Other programs may use that number too. Though it is possible that a school that uses FAFSA only might meet your full need based on that EFC, there are few if any schools that guarantee to do so. A top student, a student that a school absolutely wants, that uses FAFSA only for financial aid awards might do it. But no guarantee that it will happen and the odds are against you unless you find schools that have guaranteed awards at certain gpa/test score levels.</p>

<p>The most generous school in terms of financial aid, tend to be difficult in admissions, and require another form, usually the CSS PROFILE as their financial aid application, in addition to the FAFSA. Those schools that GUARANTEE to meet need, also DEFINE that need themselves, and it is not necessarily (or even usually) the same number as that FAFSA EFC. For example, PROFILE school almost all include primary home equity as an asset. FAFSA excludes it. Most PROFILE school want non custodial parent financial information as well assets that dependent siblings might have. FAFSA does not even ask. Some PROFILE schools even ask what cars your family owns, and every other possible source of any money. So that need figure is likely to vary from school to school that uses PROFILE since the questions are custom made for a lot of the schools and the info is used in different ways. Some PROFILE school even will consider 401K and other qualified plan assets as available. </p>

<p>Also meeting 100% of need could be through self help as well as through grants. I was surprised to see that some schools will give the student some loan money out of their own funds as well as federal loans. When a school uses federal Stafford Direct loan options and work study money as part of the student financial aid award, it leaves much less leeway for such a student to put toward what the family expected contribution is. Some schools even list Parent DIrect loans (PLUS) as part of their award, when such loans are not even guaranteed–the parent has to apply and be approved!</p>

<p>So even though your FAFSA EFC may be $35K, a private school might see it differently. Also that $25K in need, even if it is agreed upon that the FAFSA EFC will be the same,might not be funded by much in grants. Your student could get a package of $5500 of Stafford loans, $2500 in Perkins loans, $5K in Work study money, $2K in School loan and $10K in a grant. That means the student is tapped out entirely in terms of loans and working during the school year. You have to come up with the entire $35K YOURSELF, you the parent.</p>

<p>However, it is also possible that the school is a no loan in the package school with generous terms that define the EFC close to that of FAFSA and you can use the full $5500 of Stafford money towards your family EFC and your student can work during the school year to bridge some of that gap too, leaving you with maybe $25K to pull from savings, scrimp out of your budget, and borrow, each year. The more you do in one of those categories the less you have to do in the others.</p>

<p>When you have need, do cast a wide net because there are a lot of different varieties of catch out there. But always have your base covered with at least one sure thing.</p>

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<p>It is highly unlikely that you have a 25k EFC on a family income of $150k based on either the federal or institutional methodology</p>

<p>When applying for student financial aid from the federal government based on the information submitted by the student and their parent(s). </p>

<p>The FAFSA determines your eligiblity to receive federal aid : pell grants, seog grants (if applicable to your school) federal work study and federal student loans (subsidized/unsubsidized stafford loans and perkins loans). The FAFSA is required by all public colleges and universities and an overwhelming number of private schools require the FAFSA (some in addition to other FA forms).</p>

<p>Approximately 350 schools use the CSS profile to gather additional financial information in order to grant their own institutional aid.</p>

<p>If you attend a profile school, they use a combination of both the federal and institutional methodologies. </p>

<p>At minimum you file the FAFSA (at almost every school) to determine your eligibility for federal aid (Pell/ seog grants, stafford and perkins loans). Most public univeristies will just require the fafsa (the exception may be UVA, UNC- CH, Mich and a few others which may require their own forms)</p>

<p>The CSS profile is used at different colleges that distribute their own institutional aid (Many of these schools have much deeper pockets).</p>

<p>Many schools that use a federal methodology to determine EFC will require only the FAFSA. Schools that use an instutional methodology or a combination of the 2 will require the CSS profile or their own FA forms.</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity. Different schools look at home equity differently. some schools do not look at home equity, some schools look at home equity as a mulitplyer of income for example some s example if you have 150k in income, they may think that 1.5*150k (225k)or 150k * 2 (300K) of your home equity can be used to pay for college while still another set of schools may think at all home equity should be available to pay for college</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>The profile will take into consideration tuition for children attending high school. They may consider school expenses outside of high school for special needs children. They will consider unreimbursed medical expenses and taking care of elderly parents.</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

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<p>I wonder if the reason why the OP’s “EFC” is calculating that low ($25k for an income of $150), is because they are contributing heavily to retirement accts, but she didn’t “add those amounts” back in?? For a family of 4, the EFC for $150k is going to be about $50k. A family of 5 might have a slightly smaller EFC, but not much smaller. Each additional family member doesn’t affect EFC that much.</p>

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<p>No, we are not saying that. If the school ends up meeting your 25k in need, then all is good. </p>

<p>But remember, just because you have a demonstrated need, doesn’t mean that it translate into 25k of free money. The school can meet your need with a combination of grant aid, stafford looans for your child and PLUS loans for you. </p>

<p>There are very few schools that have no loans in their financial aid plans. many schools have family income caps for no loans in the financial aid package. With 150k income, the only 3 schools that will give you no loans based on your income; (HYP).</p>

<p>IF you have a 35k EFC, this is the minimum that the college is expecting you to pay. This number could change once the school verifies your finances. You would have to pay this out of pocket through past income (savings) current income from work or future (loans) or a combination of the 3.</p>

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<p>Besides the VERY significant issue that your EFC will likely be closer to $50k than it will be to $35k, as Sybbie says, any defined need can be filled in a variety of ways. Need is rarely filled with only grants. Usually need is met with loans, work-study, and if needed, some grants.</p>

<p>Also, many of the schools that “meet need” also include a “student contribution” and a “parent contribution”. The student contribution is different from work-study and student loans…which are considered “self-help”. The student contribution is often a 2-3 thousand dollars that is assumed to be earned over the summer. The thinking is that the “student contribution” and “self-help” will go towards the “non-direct school” costs, such as books, travel, and personal expenses. It seems that schools don’t really want to be paying for things like airfare, shampoo, and Saturday pizza out with friends.</p>

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<p>Start here, but check the individual websites because many policies have recently changed. Run your numbers through the school’s net price calculator to get a better idea as to where you stand.</p>

<p>[Project</a> on Student Debt: Summary of Pledges: Eligibilty Guidelines and Basic Provisions](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/Type_and_Coverage.vp.html]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/Type_and_Coverage.vp.html)</p>

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<p>Not necessarily. There are some great schools that offer substantial merit aid, making them cheaper than in-state options. </p>

<p>You said your son is “very competitive”. There are merit scholarships out there that are highly competitive, enough so that receiving one is as much an accomplishment as being accepted at a “big name” school. There are students who turn down places like the University of Chicago for big merit at Pitt. Hampshire and Rhodes over Yale. USC over (fill in the blank). Places that offer full-tuition (or more!) automatic scholarships for National Merit finalists are very attractive if you need to save money for med or professional school. </p>

<p>When you have an accomplished high-stats kid they’ve been hearing for years about a handful of colleges that are well-known. Have your kid expand their horizons, and look for more possibilities. One of the best uses of the parents forum is to give a description of your kid’s stats, your budget, what they’re looking for in a college (e.g. small/large, warm/cold weather, rural/city, possible majors) and ask for suggestions. Some smaller-named places might actually be a better fit, along with being more affordable.</p>

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<p>It sounds like you are looking at this level of debt for every year. If that’s the case, then it’s way way way too much, especially for a kid who is considering med school.</p>

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<p>Slithey is right…too much debt. Med students shouldn’t have much/any debt from undergrad since med school is soooooo expensive.</p>

<p>And, since you mention having younger kids to put thru college, then for the PARENTS to take on that much debt would likely mean that you’d STILL have that debt outstanding when the younger ones go to college. If your income is being diverted to pay back loans for this child, how will you contribute (or borrow more :frowning: ) for the next one, and so on.</p>

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<p>Very informative discussion - my wife and I are debating this issue now - at first it looked like one of us had written the initial question. We are slighter higher on the income scale - but in a similar situation in terms of kid who wants to go to Ivy League school - and us not qualifying for need based aid based on FASFA - plus due to inability to sell older house, we now have “rental property” and equity in that house. I’m leaning toward not using an advisor - since as I put it - they can’t lie (nor can we) on the forms, nor can they magically lower our income or make money appear.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>Right. </p>

<p>Last year, there was a Texas student who was in a similar situation and the parents gave a “respected college advisor” a few thousand bucks to help their student get into college with lots of aid (the family didn’t qualify for aid). It was a joke… The only “aid” the student got was by applying to a merit-aid school that was recommended on CC. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>An advisor can’t make your income lower (unless you’re advised to take a bonus the following year, but that just delays the bad news by a year…and might mislead you into thinking a school is affordable). </p>

<p>Since your EFC has been calculated based on largely your income…and further complicated by a second home’s value and rental income, there’s really nothing an advisor can do to change that impact.</p>

<p>drhaas…</p>

<p>All you can do is tell your child how much you’ll pay each year. If you won’t borrow/co-sign loans then say so. </p>

<p>Then tell your child that s/he can apply to a couple of pricey/reachy schools to see what happens (HYPS may give some aid). But, that s/he must also apply to some matches and safeties where merit scholarships are very likely and/or assured. </p>

<p>The good news is that if your child has ivy-quality stats, then he’s in a good position for merit elsewhere. The kids I feel sorry for are the ones with unaffordable EFCs, yet they don’t have the stats for decent merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>Drhaasmn, for families in your situation as with all families, there should be a few well selected schools that you know you can afford and you know will accept your student that should be the base of your student’s list. When you can pay more than a few thousand, some such options are the state school, the local privates on a commuter basis, and some good OOS publics. </p>

<p>You then start looking for some schools that have some good merit money that are also schools that you and your student have in mind, also trying to find some local gems that you may not be aware of that are some fine schools. Some regional schools that are less known but are very good and well regarded are UDenver, Marquette, DePauw, Rhodes college, just to name a few. Some of these schools do have merit money and are particularly generous to out of area students with high stats. Also do add some lottery tickets in there and discuss whether these are schools that you, as parents and the family are willing to be debt for. </p>

<p>There is a big difference between a family with a zero or very low EFC and on the brink of financial disaster even before the whole college situation is taken into account, taking on hefty loans, and a family who is upper income and has committed thenselves so that it is not easy to come up with money out of savings and current income to take out loans for college. Unfair, but a reality.</p>