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[quote]
A report to be released on Tuesday by a group seeking to raise college graduation rates shows that despite decades of steadily climbing enrollment rates, the percentage of students making it to the finish line is barely budging. ... In Texas, for example, of every 100 students who enrolled in a public college, 79 started at a community college, and only 2 of them earned a two-year degree on time; even after four years, only 7 of them graduated. Of the 21 of those 100 who enrolled at a four-year college, 5 graduated on time; after eight years, only 13 had earned a degree.... Half of all students studying for an associate degree, and one in five of those seeking a bachelors degree including many who graduated from high school with a grade point average of 3.0 or higher ... are required to take remedial, or developmental courses, and many of them never move on to credit-bearing courses, much less graduation.
<p>Maybe that’s a sign that not everyone needs a college degree? </p>
<p>I wonder about the number of college students who sincerely want/need a degree and couldn’t finish because “life got in the way”, vs the number of college students who went to college because “that’s what you do after high school” only to discover that they didn’t care enough to invest the time, money and effort to finish.</p>
<p>We are increasing the number of students who matriculate into colleges, but we are not increasing the number of high school graduates that are ready for college work. It is not as simple as re-training teachers. There are many home environments that are not conducive to studying.</p>
<p>There ar way too many students attending college who are not college material. When I was a student this didn’t exist, or at least not to the degree it does now. There were jobs available for highschool seniors that did not require a college degree and they were able to earn a living wage, and work their way up. Sadly, many kids are attending community college or low tier schools because they do not feel they have any option other than trying to plug along until they barely get a degree. I have no proof but I would guess the majority of the unemployed grads are coming from low tier state schools with degrees in areas that are typically viewed as not very difficult. I would also guess that most of those graduating in six to eight or more years probably have low GPAs with a smattering of dropped and failing classes on their transcripts.<br>
If our economy were better and there were more job opportunities for non academic kids the value of the college degree would also improve.</p>
<p>One of the huge problems is that a high school diploma no longer guarantees that the holder has basic reading comprehension, arithmetic ability, and civic knowledge. High school graduates used to be employable, not just as blue-collar workers, but as clerks, traders, store managers, bookkeepers, soldiers, the sorts of jobs from which careers could be built from the ground up. Increasingly, we look to community colleges and even public four-year colleges to certify that kind of base-line functional knowledge.</p>
<p>These sort of studies draw broad conclusions and it makes me wonder if they take into account any of the other factors that could contribute to students taking longer to graduate.</p>
<p>Sure the students in many community colleges are dumb. However how many are not going to graduate on time due to full time jobs? With the heavily Catholic Latino population in Texas how many young parents are attending college while trying to take care of a family. In addition how was the research conducted and were factors specific to having a high population of first generation ESL students in Texas considered. The fact that many of the students were required to take remedial courses seems to speak less to the problems at the college level of Texas, but more to the problems in public education there as a whole.</p>
<p>If you read the entire article, it’s not about Texas-bashing, and the authors do discuss in some detail the reasons why graduation rates are so low.</p>
<p>Years ago students who were considered special needs did NOT attend college. Today everyone attends some form of college. These same students receive all types of modifications while in highschool, and often have a teacher or aid assigned to them. There are scribes assigned, special testing rooms, modified homework, computers provided so students with handwriting difficulties could type and even then the assignments are modified so that long writing samples are not required of most children with an IEP. </p>
<p>The poor college graduation rates are the result of what happenes when these kids graduate and their parents unknowingly believed their kid was receiving the same education as kids in the mainstream or honors level classes in highschool. These kids have not taken honors level courses or AP classes so how could they be prepared for college. The reason they have not taken them is not because the school or education was lacking but because they could not have handled the work. The problem often times is that these kids believe they could and should be able to get a college degree. So who is really at fault…is it the parents for not addressing this issue early on…the school for not being completely forth coming regarding the students ability, or our system of education where we trully believe if we pour enough money into education that every kid will learn and be able to head off to college. The 6 or 8 year graduation rates are a symptom of the problem in our society which fails to address that not every kid belongs in college. We are constantly telling kids how terrific they are and how great they are, which is fine, but this message is also a lie and as a result all kids regardless of ability believe they belong in college.</p>
<p>Back in the dark ages when I attended highschool there were kids who were college bound and those who were’nt, and the kid knew where he/she stood. These same kids graduated and got jobs. Today, I see kids in my town that have struggled all through school because of disabilities, and off they go to either a second or third tier in state or out of state school while others attend small otherwise unknown privates which claim to specialize in learning disabilities. These kids are the ones who take 6 credits or 12 credits drop classes or fail classes. America is deluding these kids by saying everyone should attend college.</p>
<p>annasdad…The kids who have IEPs with all sorts of modifications receive report cards and you would not believe the grades that these kids receive. One of my neighbors kids who has a severe auditory processing problem gets grades in the A to A- range. The child has a great deal of difficulty communicating an idea so I can’t imagine what he is able to write, read or compute. His mother believes he will be headed to a “great college.” That is what I am talking about…kids with IEP’s have for a very long time received these types of grades and they should not. The parents (especially if the child is an only or the oldest) has no idea that things are that bad academically. Is this grade inflation? I don’t think so because they are being graded by their ability in the context of being a special education student. It is not the same thing for a true college bound kid with honors or AP classes especially those who are in the better school districts. In the case of the latter there is more accountability because more is expected in regard to good AP scores and stardardized tests scores. The grade inflation should be examined within each school and with the children who are classified with learning disabilities. *note…I am not talking about kids who are very smart who happen to be on the spectrum.</p>
<p>My son has learning disabilities and yes, he struggled all through middle and high school. Not because he was not intellectually capable of doing the work, but because his brain did not allow him to output what he learned in the way the teachers wanted. His list of learning disabilities is long, including ADD, Sequencing and processing issues, Dysgraphia, and other output disorders. My son will graduate in December with a degree in Electrical Engineering. He has an impressive resume, with relevant, long-term work experience, paid internship and several certifications. His job prospects are excellent, with one solid offer and several others in the works. Not every kid with learning disabilities is doomed to low end employment and we as a society should not pigeonhole them because of their disabilities!</p>
<p>fishymom…Do you think all children who have serious learning issues have the success that your son has had? Your son has had what most kids who are classified do not have. I might also add that those who are classified and happen to be in the lower economic income often have little more offered than what is available in the classroom. There are always success stories but the fact that most kids with serious learning disabilites are not college ready, and this should be considered when looking at stats in the posted article.</p>
<p>Considering that community colleges have a lot of part time students and people taking the occasional course for personal interest, a low and slow graduation rate is not surprising. Even many of those who successfully transfer to a four year school do not bother to complete all of the requirements for an associate’s degree.</p>
<p>Of course I realize that not all children with disabilities have the success my son has had. My son is a high IQ kid with near perfect SAT/ACT scores. Even so, he had to settle for a regional state university because of his low GPA. I agree that many kids are not college ready and this is a huge factor in college graduation rate. But many of these kids are regular kids who have taken honors and AP classes, not just kids with IEPs. My point is that there are kids with learning disabilities that can be successful in college. We should not discount all kids with learning disabilities as not college material.</p>
<p>I will agree that there are always exceptions and some kids will go on to college but most kids with serious learning difficulties would be very wise to consider vocational/trades rather than going the route of spending 6 or 8 years suffering through a degree when we are in an economy that only the most persistent and driven kids are getting jobs.</p>
<p>We have all bought into the myth that every kid needs a college degree…I don’t believe this is true or accurate, and for the most part this type of thinking equates with trying to fit the round peg into the square hole. As a result of there being so many college degrees they have become almost the bare bottom of what is required for entry level jobs.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that everyone needs a college degree, at all, but the idea that it is dyslexics who are the ones not graduating is kind of hillarious. The LD’s occur at a very low rate in the college population…</p>
<p>But, don’t take my word for it. Here is what they think at Yale.</p>