College is not about education anymore

<p>Ok, this will be a sort of stream of consciousness, but it will make sense.</p>

<p>What is the point of attending college? Really, what is it? It is getting the degree and in most cases the name on the degree, to get into grad school or into the work force. However, in today's world, the degree has become so superficial, so meaningless. Employers really only care that you went to college and got a somewhat relevant degree. Don't let anyone tell you different. They don't care if you took a certain class your sophomore year, all they want is experience and a degree. You don't even have to be truly educated to get a degree. This is because the university system has become so "democratized" that we pick our classes towards our own prejudice, disallowing a broad-based education. I can take a bunch of classes that I find interesting and get a degree. Back before the 30s people had to be educated in a broad spectrum of subjects, becoming well rounded, to get a liberal arts degree.</p>

<p>If the education behind the degree really meant something, then I can just take classes independently (as trying for a degree, just taking classes) and show employers a list of my courses and the marks I received in them. But they don't care, nobody does (except you maybe). All they want is someone capable of doing a job macroeconomics 101 isn't going to help in doing. But no, that economics degree can just sit there and people will say "oh look he got a degree in this, he must be good at XYZ"</p>

<p>/rant</p>

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Yeah, that’s the point of it. So you can study the stuff you like and learn about it. It’s not like K-12 where they pick all your classes and you get a general education thanks to wiki and sparknotes. </p>

<p>wait til you get to NYU next year and you have to take all the gen ed classes like Conversations with the West and Writing the Essay and the necessary Math, Science, Foreign Language and Arts courses despite your major - you’ll realize the broad-based education model is still forced on you, and it’s usually a pain in the ass. i’ve enjoyed the classes in my major 100 times more than the gen ed crap - because I actually wanted to study them and they weren’t forced. </p>

<p>Liberal Arts subjects - math, science, humanities, social sciences - don’t lead directly to a job, so the point is to learn general knowledege about that subject. Employers usually don’t give a crap what it’s in unless the job requires a skillset.</p>

<p>It seems like NYU (and mainly LSP) might be an exception, sort of. I see the point you are making though, but I don’t think there should be no requirements at all.</p>

<p>Also, I’m close to choosing my local CC over NYU right now. I want to keep costs down and stay in Los Angeles.</p>

<p>Maybe if it was done so there aren’t any more majors. You just get a BA or BS, but the classes you take in those show your employer what you will know about and be able to do. That is similar to the major system, but there would be more requirements, with specialization in science or arts instead of a single focus.</p>

<p>Not really, most colleges including State U’s have gen eds. The only college i can think of with no gen ed’s is Brown (I’m sure there’s more). You could argue that the open curriculum education model is actually better since students take the classes because they WANT to rather than being forced to. I learn more and enjoy it when I’m not taking it against my will. Personally I think college is already too “generalized”. A BA in English often means like 10 English classes, that’s crap.</p>

<p>I think CC is a good idea to keep costs down and especially if you want a general education. Kudos on not being one of the clueless HS kids who takes out $100k or so in loans.</p>

<p>I agree, I do better in classes I’m genuinely interested that those I’m forced to take, but I think there should be more of a balance. Most people will just take what interests them and are generally unwilling to expose themselves to new ideas or give themselves a truly broad-based education. A specialized education may be better for some areas, but others not so much. I think grad school is where the specialization should be.</p>

<p>A vestigial part of the old omnibus degree is how many universities offer a BSc in mathematics along with a BA in mathematics.</p>

<p>Its not so much that I want a general education, I’m just doing it to transfer to UCLA or USC easily. 100k is a lot though especially since I’m going grad school for law.</p>

<p>college is about the lifestyle and experiences, or so I hear. I think it’s pointless too though, and I’ve been there.</p>

<p>I like the system in Germany where if your interested in engineering you take only classes in that area and so on.</p>

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<p>High school already exposed me to English, history, mathematics, science, etc. I don’t think college is about a broad-based education, I think it should be just broad enough and narrow enough that you exit with a mature idea of what you like to think about and with good ideas on what you’d do in the future. For some, this will amount to knowing a very, very targeted goal, and for others it will be less certain, but still, I think the key is that college offers a lot more than high school (for instance, few high schools offer anything in engineering), and so one can get a better idea.</p>

<p>I do not favor requirements, certainly. Free-for-all definitely wins. People who <em>have</em> to take breadth requirements blow them off anyway.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the essence of higher education has been lost because many sheep have flocked to it due to it’s perceived inherent advantages. It’s natural for humans to want more resources for themselves (money), so they go without concerning themselves with actual learning. Just getting that certificate. The behavior is pathetic, but with many humans, it seems to be an imminent consequence with anything that sounds lucrative. </p>

<p>A very notable aspect of all of this is how teachers are affected. Teacher’s are the very people who propagate knowledge (second to books of course). They may be very enthusiastic about teaching a subject they genuinely love; but if students come in and all they want to do is make sure they get a good mark in the class, it is extremely dispelling for the instructor. I’ve met and talked to many of my own professors who feel this way, and at first were a bit surprised that I actually want to learn about the subject they teach. Very saddening.</p>

<p>Well what do ya expect Marauder? All our lives we’re told how if we don’t go to college we’ll end up at best supervising shifts at McDonald’s, and hey look at all those college grads and even master’s degree holders now… a lot of them can’t even get jobs at McDonald’s.</p>

<p>I personally don’t like required gen eds. It just makes it feel like high school with more choice in which irrelevant classes I want to take.</p>

<p>Not that I speak from experience, but people are probably correct when they say that most of college is ********.</p>

<p>Now this is from experience - The thing that most of these same people don’t realize is that the business world is EVEN MORE ********.</p>

<p>When you go into a conference room and meet with your potential employers, and you are waving a degree with honors from Harvard, nobody will give a **** what you majored in. They don’t care about that trip to Africa you took to give out condoms to the natives. All that a degree with honors from Harvard says compared to what a degree from a community college says is that you can deal with far more **<strong><em>. Such extreme, ridiculous, totally pointless levels of </em></strong> that deters even the smartest kids, but clearly not the kids determined to put up with all of that **<strong><em>. Since most of what you end up doing in the business world is total </em></strong><strong><em>, they figure that someone who spent their college years drowning themselves in utter </em></strong> in order to get a supremely prestigious degree in - ******** -, that they must be PERFECT for the company, which mostly operates in a whole WORLD OF ********. </p>

<p>So, as one of those potential employers, I am on the lookout for people who show me that they can put up with a lot of **<strong><em>. That is all. If you can be real to me and express that you only went through the </em></strong> of going to Africa as a ******** cover in order to impress me and not because you actually care about condom usage in Africa, I will hire you.</p>

<p>Awesome point Manhattan</p>

<p>"High school already exposed me to English, history, mathematics, science, etc. "</p>

<p>And that used to mean something. But now being exposed to English in high school might mean you read a bunch of crap. And there are a lot of subjects that aren’t commonly taught in high school, like sociology, psychology, philosophy, economics, etc. Left to their own devices, most students tend to take classes in subjects they already know about. Too many students these days panic if they find themselves in a class where they don’t understand what’s going on right away. So instead of saying “Great! a class in which I know nothing, and therefore have plenty to learn,” they say “I don’t get it” and drop the class. I teach college philosophy and see this syndrome all the time.</p>

<p>manhattan that is the most profound post I’ve ever read on CC, maybe even in the world.</p>

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<p>And if it is any wonder why I never post in “what is the most useless major?” threads, I think that explains it. There is no useful major, only useful people with majors and useless people with majors.</p>

<p>The only real academic skill you need is writing clearly and thoughtfully. If you can do that, you will set yourself apart from your peers, because most people cannot do that.</p>

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<p>I so, so agree.</p>

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<p>I think that is because people in general these days have “absolutely ****ing helpless” as a default state of mind. Nobody takes initiative in trying to do things for themselves.</p>

<p>Also, to add to my point about “useful majors”, people like to place a lot of weight on the type of major as a reason for success or failure mostly because they don’t want to admit that there is something lacking in themselves that ultimately led to their demise. It is easier to say “if I knew this English major would be so useless, I wouldn’t be working at Starbucks” than admitting perhaps you just suck. Most people do. Don’t worry about it.</p>

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<h2>Quoted for truth. Speaking well and communication (writing) are extremely important regardless of what you want to do in life. These are REAL people skills.</h2>

<p>I, too, have questioned the point of an education. Sadly, most people are in it b/c they just want the degree and, ultimately the job. </p>

<p>I, too, also noticed that many people are unwilling to try new things, b/c they are afraid of failure. And if you fail you will work at fast food restaurants…which is hindering people from trying new things.</p>

<p>I, too, agree that taking a class b/c you want to learn/interested will be way more rewarding than if you are told to take it. Darn those GE’s. </p>

<p>For example, I took Women Studies (had very slight interest of the subject, but other than that, it covered two GE categories at my school <–main reason I enrolled!) for the wrong reasons…and what I learned went out the other ear.</p>

<p>Academia has taught me one other skill than the ability to write coherently.</p>

<p>I can solve problems with math. While this is far less useful than writing well, I imagine it is still fairly useful (I hope).</p>

<p>Other than that, yes, manhattan is probably right in that one of the only two actual skills you learn in college is writing.</p>