<p>I wish I could just get a certificate in good writing and use that to find gainful employment.</p>
<p>I feel like there are very few jobs that actually require the sort of learning you get in college. Anything in the sciences (including math), accounting, finance and engineering are what come to mind. </p>
<p>I mean, consider a management position at a store like Target. I’m talking store manager. Yeah, you could go to business school and get a degree in Management and apply there. But you could very well be competing with an internal applicant who has climbed up the ranks from salesman to supervisor, and who has been taught by his managers how to manage. And he didn’t even have to pay to learn that.</p>
<p>Yes to all of this. I’m actually writing an essay related to this for…a stupid gen ed English class. A lot of the problem is that a bachelor’s degree has become this prereq for white collar employment and it really isn’t. Whether you will do well in business has nothing to do with going to college. There are people who do value college for the education, myself included. And nothing I learn from my major (history) will ever be useful, except perhaps in terms of writing. But that’s okay, because I want to learn. (Also, I plan on going to grad school for physical therapy, because I am not the type that can market well enough to get the great job. So I go for a field with a shortage.)
In short, college should not be about employment, it should be about learning. It has become an easy way for employers to eliminate applicants, and I’m not sure if that will ever change. Certainly not in the environment we have now.</p>
<p>Right now the same number of people recieve bachelor’s degrees as recieved a highschool degree right after WWII. It’s simply a minimum requirement for employment in the US… Of course, people used to get married and have children right out of high school, as well. So, there’s that. </p>
<p>College is just the employers way of knowing that you have the ability to show up and do things you don’t necessarily WANT to do in order to achieve a result. In the end, most employers could care less about whether you enjoyed college, or had the opportunity to live like an adolescent with no obligations or responsibilities to anyone but yourself and the “the life of the mind” for an extended period of time. It’s immaterial. The question is: can you show up day after day and do some things you might not feel are particularly personally valuable because those things are your JOB. Employers generally find college graduates with a 3.2 or above are capable of these things…though it isn’t fail safe.</p>
<p>If you feel you can create your own business or your own opportunities without these qualifications, you are more than welcome to go for it. You’re an adult and nobody is going to stop you. IF you want to learn for learning sake, take the major you want, or majors, since mostly kids in college are barely doing anything, and go on to grad school and hope you are one of the very, very few who find a life in academia. </p>
<p>As for writing well, as a published writer, I can tell you this particular skill set is becoming increasingly less important as the years go by. SPEAKING WELL, thinking well, thinking creatively while speaking well, these are the skill sets necessary for the future…that and the best math you can get.</p>
<p>cowman and manhattan. I LOVE your thoughts and ideas. You guys are definately thinkers. (Sorry I just had to say that =D).</p>
<p>Now I agree with you (cowman) somewhat. I do think that many corporations and jobs only care about the name. That’s why many people say if you went to one of the eight Ivies, you’re pretty much set for the rest of your life – and I whole heartly agree with that statement. However, we generally view our prospective career as an end and our college education as the means. For me personally, I am VERY excited to be the first in my family to go to college and get a REAL education beyond a simplistic HS education where anyone can pass by putting in 10% effort.</p>
<p>Right now I’m caught between majoring in Economics or Mathematics but regardless what I end up majoring in, I’m going to try my best to take a wide array of classes that allow me to expand my thinking. I know how much it sucks for employers to care about only two things but college shouldn’t just be done for pospective jobs but for yourself as well.</p>
<p>I’m just hoping I can get one of the jobs I applied to. If I do I plan on being a stellar employee and getting on the good side of management… eventually getting promoted to a higher position. Ultimately I could build enough rapport with the big guys that my college experience wouldn’t really make or break it.</p>
<p>In other words, knowing the right folks so I can bypass the soulless HR computers that simply reject your application if you don’t say you have a college degree (even if you’re still working on it). Even if you’ve got 4 years of real-world experience in the field.</p>
<p>I have a problem with that phrase. The phrase itself isn’t intrinsically bad, but people make it seem as though it provides justification for attaining no knowledge throughout one’s life and being lazy, because they believe the claim that some dude their mom knows will get them a high paying job to be a maxim. Of course, that does happen in some cases, but some people abuse and misuse the phrase. For instance, a friend of mine has a sub-3.0 GPA and doesn’t put much effort into studying because he believes he’ll be fine if just attends a bunch of business networking events at our school.</p>
<p>Well, east89, you’re friend won’t be fine, at first, because his resume is going to matter most, and his GPA right out of school will actually effect where he gets hired…The real truth they don’t tell you? “It’s who you know AND what you know…also, it’s how you can prove you know it.”</p>
<p>DC…I’m sure you’ll be fine. But, in the beginning, and this can be a challenge for kids to face right out of school, the jobs are pretty soulless. It’s just true. The jobs are doing all the things nobody wants to do in order to get to the point where you get to do the other things. Hence, the cliche of starting in the mailroom…though these days that might be IT. </p>
<p>In the meantime, there’s no reason to waste your education on things you don’t enjoy. Study what you want. With the exception of very few fields, like engineering…your undergrad degree in whatever field is fine. GPA matters more than major, really.</p>
<p>It took you only that long to realize this? I realized this junior year. Of high school.</p>
<p>And by the way, college IS too generalized. Only 1/3 of your degree is your major. And by the way, I believe in tailored education. There should really be two tracks-a fast track for the kids that don’t need the remedial bs classes and a slower track for the ones that don’t. The fast track would be 3 years and the slow track 4. Arguably this system already exists by the use of AP credits. But some classes (ConWest or whatever) can’t be skipped with the use of AP’s.</p>
<p>We’re in a “knowledge” based economy or whatever the hell that is. This transition requires SPECIALISTS, not generalists.</p>
<p>Until such time law schools (and med schools and business schools and employers) stop using GPA as a benchmark for admissions, this behavior will continue. Simple incentives. If you want people to explore, keep the pass fail option open until right before finals. That eliminates the risk of failure. And when you eliminate the downside people are more likely to behave in such a reckless manner that you wish they would behave in. Without GPA management, people like me are toast. People stick with what they know because it’s safe. People are naturally risk-averse. They will avoid risk any way they can. Taking a class they know nothing about is like buying stocks without having looked at the financials of the company or going into trial without prep-it’s RISKY and maybe stupid. And until such time that B- hurts them in grad/law/med/business school admissions or job prospects, students will keep being risk-averse. If you want them to take more risk, lobby your university for a more liberal pass fail policy.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think professors owe a duty of care to their students. Meaning, it’s the professor’s job to convince students why they should care about what they’re teaching. Our job as students isn’t to care, it’s to know then regurgitate the material when asked.</p>
<p>I’d instead define a useful major to be one which contributes to your becoming a useful individual. Which means that the person makes the major useful, although there are a few with some intrinsic use.</p>
<p>There are indeed majors that aren’t full of nonsense, and where every bit you learn will be a useful step to your career. This is prevalent in some of science and engineering and CS. A combination of both the knowledge AND experience obtained are useful in some cases. There are of course those who study engineering and go into industry doing something unrelated, but there are certainty specialized jobs that require the actual educational training.</p>
<p>Academia and real-world experience has mainly taught me one thing, and believe it or not, that is how to be a “professional” ***hole and how to read others. This skill is essential in nearly every job, as long as you are not just starting in said job… then you must be a “professional” kiss-ass. </p>
<p>If you can be an <em>**hole to people in a “professional” way, paradox or not, you will be better off. This doesn’t mean, for example, just coming out and telling someone they are dumber than bricks, but doing so in a way that is usually non-direct yet gets the point across. These type of people are generally at the head of major Fortune 100 companies, or are managers above you in pay scale. These people were generally promoted because they were both good at what they did, and they knew how to accomplish things in the most effective manner (e.g. being a professional *</em><em>hole). This doesn’t mean being an *</em>*hole 100% of the time to everyone, but it means knowing how to effectively exploit people to your advantage. This is a very pessimistic outlook, but until I see different, this is my general approach to the professional world in the U.S.</p>
<p>Why else do you think people in frats are any successful at life?</p>
<p>Also, futurenyustudent seems right on the money, although I distinguish a little more among the classes. There are specialized classes where the professor shouldn’t really be obligated to worry too much about making sure the student is interested, although still the “why do we care” part is a huge burden on them which I think is correctly assumed. In more general nonsense classes, certainly the burden is entirely on the professor to convey why this is worth thinking about.</p>
<p>To be truly happy, a man must live absolutely in the present. No thought of what’s gone before and no thought of what lies ahead. But, a life of meaning, a man is condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future.</p>
<p>Also, what is GPA management? Is it artificially manipulating the composition of your GPA to achieve the highest possible for grad school?</p>
<p>Something like this. Everyone’s gotta do it to some extent. It’s the manipulation of your class schedule with the sole goal of maximizing your GPA while minimizing the amount of work you do.</p>
<p>No ****. Everyone here should read Charles Murray’s “Real Education”. Great book. </p>
<p>For 95% of college students, college is about grades and credentialing, not about learning, or education for that matter. </p>
<p>No one should be required to take basic general ed courses, they are worthless for most people, especially at state Universities, where the majority of the students simply don’t give a damn about the course material. This makes it very frustrating for people who actually want to learn. </p>
<p>Only a slim minority of people with high-IQ actually like to learn for the sake of learning. People with IQ between 90 and 120 don’t give a crap. Even very smart people aren’t immune to the grade-whoring disease.</p>
<p>Hey, I test at 130+ and I don’t give a crap.</p>
<p>I’d put the range at 70-140. The top 5% of the class become professors/teachers. The “upper middle class” successful people are usually in the next 20% of the class, sometimes the next 45%. The wildly successful come from anywhere.</p>
<p>I feel like gen eds are bull ****. Im a finance major yet I have to take a theatre class, science, and other. I mean I guess its great to be well rounded but why should i take theatre and science classes when i could be focusing on business classes.</p>