College is NOT High School

Student Lounge College Life
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I go to a school were money and power mean a lot, but people don't put you down because you don't have it or because you don't have a designer bag.

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<p>Of course not, but that doesn't mean there are no self-imposed social obligations to be purchasing from Burberry or D&G. Obviously, nobody at Dartmouth will dwell on whether or not you drive a BMW or a Honda Civic, but ceteris paribus, you'd still prefer the BMW - even when it isn't necessary. I agree, even at Dartmouth, it's not like you're going to be an outcast if you wear American Eagle. But still, to suggest that there are no social stigmas and impetus - no, this is absolutely not true. From what I saw, a lot of Ivy kids make at least an effort to sport brand names. The majority of Ivy kids? No. A good number of them? Absolutely.</p>

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You seem relatively intelligent, so let's stick to our own arguments, not those of sensationalist authors, alright?

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<p>Sensationalist or not, I still believe Golden's book is far better than whatever comes from my personal experiences. His novel obviously elicited some attention - but that's the whole point.</p>

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You should have been spending that time around the Northwestern econ majors, or a few of the English/engineering/science people. Some of them are really cool.

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<p>Well, I couldn't tell what kid was a journalism student and what kid was an econ student when I was walking around campus. As a journalism major myself, though, I find your comment about journalism majors being inherently more preppy and rich than econ majors kind of ridiculous and offensive, lol. I didn't find that to be the case at any school I visited, although of course the majority of engineering students at most are pretty nerdy ;].</p>

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Well, I couldn't tell what kid was a journalism student and what kid was an econ student when I was walking around campus.

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<p>Oh, so you didn't even talk to these students, but assumed they were rich and snobby anyways?? Your story just keeps getting better and better. </p>

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As a journalism major myself, though, I find your comment about journalism majors being inherently more preppy and rich than econ majors kind of ridiculous and offensive, lol.

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<p>Journalism is fundamentally more cliquey because of the cooperation it demands, and is hence less open to outsiders. </p>

<p>And also, it's a cake major, so it's popular among rich students who don't have to work an actual job after graduation. </p>

<p>That's why journalism students tend to personify those traits. </p>

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I didn't find that to be the case at any school I visited, although of course the majority of engineering students at most are pretty nerdy ;].

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<p>Sure, but how does that have ANYTHING to do with the present topic?</p>

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<p>Yes, let's get back to the topic at hand....is h.s. in college? yes at most even private colleges. Selectivity based on affordability for most people in the end makes the population less economically diverse. My point is that it is the individuals that make up colleges and unfortunately many individuals retain their h.s. level mentality of judging others that are different instead of welcoming diversity in every area. Instead they seek those that are the same. Not to start another hornets nest but just look at most of the greek organizations.....cookie cutters. That is a shame but truth. Lotteries are the answer to get a mix.</p>

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<p>Okay, apparently your experience at Dartmouth is very different from my experience at Harvard, Big Brother. And you probably had a different high school experience than I had as well.</p>

<p>Like I said before, I went to southern Ohio's version of Laguna Beach. Status and popularity were determined by the type of car you drove, the clothing you wore, and the bags you had. And people didn't generally intermingle.</p>

<p>I have had a very different experience at Harvard. Of course there are those people who have really nice cars, expensive clothing and designer bags (hell, I'm one of them). But I have no problem hanging out with someone who doesn't have a designer bag or doesn't even care to have one. I have friends from all walks of life, very different from my generic high school. So, IMO high school and college are very different.</p>

<p>And whoever is feeding you guys that line about people not working hard in college, they are lying to you. I go to Harvard and I see everyone around me working hard. No matter what anyone says, it is not an easy school. Ask any current student instead of relying on what you think you know.</p>

<p>And just for the record, Harvard is probably very different from the rest of the ivy league. The Greek scene is almost non-existent there.</p>

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<p>I come out on the side that college and HS are very different.</p>

<p>I think two separate issues are being discussed in this string. Much like HS there are all sorts of people in college ... snobs, monetarily driven, competatitve with other people, etc ... and these people will be in the real world when you get there also.</p>

<p>The big difference for me in college was the society was much bigger, diverse, and spread out which negated a lot of the affect of the "bad" aspects of the not great parts of the school.</p>

<p>To use one example. In HS there were big events that anyone who was anyone went to ... homecoming and the prom for example ... and at my HS the same set of characters had leading roles at these events ... the quarterback and cheeleader were named homecoming king and queen (really) and eventually most popular and etc etc. They were actually nice people but their social position was in everyone's face all the time along with their inner circle of friends who essentially got all the glmour positions in HS (class officers, etc).</p>

<p>There is nothing like that in college (at least at the relatively big college I went). Some folks were big jocks ... but there were 7000+ kids who could have cared less and never interacted with the jock life at all. Some folks were a big deal in the Greek life ... but the other 75% of the school didn't know these folks from the side of the barn. And so on and so on ... virtually everyone can find a place where they are comfortable without feeling pressure from the dominant crowd.</p>

<p>Some folks might have some currency in a small part of the college but it just doesn't carry across the school like it does in HS ... and personally I think that is great thing.</p>

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Okay, apparently your experience at Dartmouth is very different from my experience at Harvard, Big Brother. And you probably had a different high school experience than I had as well.

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<p>Actually, they're similar in many ways. I've explicitly stated what you've rehashed. I even have a lot of friends donning the Crimson, so it's not that hard to verify the conspicuous luxury culture at these schools.</p>

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Like I said before, I went to southern Ohio's version of Laguna Beach. Status and popularity were determined by the type of car you drove, the clothing you wore, and the bags you had. And people didn't generally intermingle.

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<p>My high school was nothing like that. Everyone dressed fairly conservative going to school in the South. But that brings up another point. Regardless of what we believe, people tend to judge each other relative to their peers. If everyone else is sporting Lacoste or DKNY, then it matters less what they actually think of you (more than likely, nobody really cares what you wear) than what kinds of expectations you put on yourself to look a certain way. Someone else mentioned frats, so let's talk about that. Fraternities tend to have a huge presence at the University of Georgia, my state flagship. Now, fratdaddies tend to dress in an unpretentious, conservative way to avoid the gaudy styles of d-bags. Most of my fellow peers did not don super-stylish brand names, but just stuck with the basic polo, t-shirt, jeans, and shorts. The overlying expectation for them to buy expensive just wasn't there. I absolutely agree with whoever said that it depends on what college you go to.</p>

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I have had a very different experience at Harvard. Of course there are those people who have really nice cars, expensive clothing and designer bags (hell, I'm one of them).

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<p>I don't think I've ever caught anyone driving a BMW at Georgia (we're all sport utility fans here). Surely there must be some, but the point is - they're not conspicuous. It's not like all people from Georgia are so poor that they cannot afford a luxury vehicle. Contrast this to any Ivy League, and the difference is like night and day. People at Harvard and Dartmouth actually kind of dress better overall. And of course, there are those students with the uber brand names. Of course, when there are people around you who have fancy outfits, you tend to want to have the same. Your own personal portrait actually illustrates this, unless you're telling me that your behavior is purely self-imposed, and that your environment has nothing to do with your decisions.</p>

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And whoever is feeding you guys that line about people not working hard in college, they are lying to you. I go to Harvard and I see everyone around me working hard. No matter what anyone says, it is not an easy school.

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<p>Tell that to guys at MIT and Caltech. I think we can all agree, that those students work way harder. Unless you're being left out to die in Harvard 55, or are just trying to stay afloat as a premed, I really don't want to hear any excuses about people working "too hard." You're in college now. Toughen up.</p>

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Oh, so you didn't even talk to these students, but assumed they were rich and snobby anyways?? Your story just keeps getting better and better.

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<p>You have terrible reading comprehension skills. I said that they were "preppy and richy", which I could tell from the clothes they wore and the handbags they carried. I made no reference to students' personalities except to say that the majority of them were most likely "fine" and "real nice". Snobby what? Also, students that I spoke with - and yes, I did speak with some students - did attest to the prominance of the Greek scene and its emphasis on materialism, especially appearance. Therefore it was shocking to learn how large a percentage of students, compared to most state schools, participated in it.</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, it is your story that keeps getting "better and better". Oh, so only the econ majors and a "few" others are "cool"? I gave the school more credit than that!</p>

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Journalism is fundamentally more cliquey because of the cooperation it demands, and is hence less open to outsiders. </p>

<p>And also, it's a cake major, so it's popular among rich students who don't have to work an actual job after graduation. </p>

<p>That's why journalism students tend to personify those traits.

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<p>Working full-time on a daily student newspaper while double-majoring in history or poli sci (as the majority of Northwestern journalism students do) is not the mainstream definition of "cake". In addition, the Medill School of Journalism is the one of the - if not the - most selective college to gain entrance into at Northwestern. Therefore, journalism students as a whole would statistically actually have higher HS "stats" than an English or bio major not in a special program. I have to admit, though, I did not talk to enough journalism students at Northwestern to come to a scientific conclusion about what personality traits they personified. Are they really like that? Interesting, because the journalism students at other schools that I have spoken with are nothing of the sort. In fact they were intelligent, worldly, and concerned about making a difference. I wonder if this concentration of "rich students who don't have to work an actual job after graduation" occurs only at an elite school like Northwestern? You seem to imply that. Your story keeps getting better and better!</p>

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Sure, but how does that have ANYTHING to do with the present topic?

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<p>Again, if you had any reading comprehension, you might know. It was a reference to the fact that I do not dispute that a higher concentration of a particular personality trait may appear in a certain major, although I have never found it to be true to the extent that you describe!!</p>

<p>I think it is clear that you are extremely arrogant and have no idea what you are talking about, probably on a consistant basis. If you attend an "elite school", that is one reason at least to stay far away from such an institution.</p>

<p>Now I will refrain from any more off-topic comments! ;].</p>

<p>And Big Brother 1984, that is what I observed at Northwestern. People were not "mean", no, but the "vibe of wealth" was strong. There was an obvious large contigent of wealthy, conspicuous students which I did not see at the state schools I visited. So I do laugh a little when it is said that you will be "judged less" at an elite school versus a public flagship, especially in reference to clothing and money. I just do not see this being a logical conclusion.</p>

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<p>Just a note on cliques: Are not fraternities and sororities the very epitome of cliques? At my S's LAC, they even have "suit day" where all the frat boys wear their suits around campus all day and the ladies wear their monochromatic business suits to class and the cafeteria. </p>

<p>College is no different "clique-wise" than high school. People naturally segregate themselves by whatever standards they choose: interests, wealth, race, religion, athletics, geography....</p>

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College is no different "clique-wise" than high school. People naturally segregate themselves by whatever standards they choose: interests, wealth, race, religion, athletics, geography....

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for me there is one big difference ... there are cliques in HS that were front and center and a big deal at the school ... and this was not the case in college for me; there certainly are cliques and people with currency in that clique .. and it is also true that these cliques had absolutely nothing to do with the lives of the vast majority of students at school.</p>

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<p>3togo, you made a good point in your first post and I agree. In that sense, college is different, especially - but obviously not limited to - in the case of larger universities.</p>

<p>However, this is not true for many universities. fencersmother also makes a good point about Greeks. If the Greek presence is large on campus - at some schools (including "elite" ones), it encompasses 40% or more of the student body - I think in that case you may find that the beautiful people, like in HS, are still in your face!</p>

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<p>umcp11,</p>

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<li><p>your claim that over 40% of northwestenr's students are greeks is wrong. <a href="http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2006-07/f.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2006-07/f.htm&lt;/a>
32% of men and 38% of women are in fraternity</p></li>
<li><p>not all frats are the same. you seem to have a stereotypical image of frats (e.g. cliquey?) and apply that to over 40% of students at northwestern. i wasn't in frat but i've been told northwestern's frats are unlike those in many other "party schools". </p></li>
<li><p>i haven't seen any proof that shows medill is the hardest school to get into at northwestern. if you go by average sat, medill's is only the 3rd or 4th highest among northwestern's six schools. yes, a regular english or bio major probably does have higher test scores.</p></li>
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<p>I am seriously disappointed with the highly inaccurate description of Northwestern. I am about to be a senior, and I have never seen such an emphasis on cliques or name-brand clothes. </p>

<p>Of course, as in every school, there are some students who act like it is still high school. But I have never once heard a student act like he/she was better just because of clothes. </p>

<p>BTW, UMCP, are you from Maryland? If so, which county are you from?</p>

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Big Brother, but that's the point. People can be conspicuous with their fashion and personal possessions, but that doesn't stop them from being friends with people who aren't. Whereas in high school (at least my high school) people generally only hung out with people like them (those who dressed the same and had the same stuff). So, in that sense, college and high school are very different (the point I was trying to make). And, just for the record, I've been dressing the way I do and buying the things I have for most of my life, it didn't suddenly happen when I got to Harvard.</p>

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But I don't go to Caltech or MIT, so how hard they're working has no bearing on me or how hard I work. They may come to Harvard and think it's a cakewalk. However, many that attend Harvard don't agree. If I go to my state flagship, I may think it's ridiculously easy, but tell that to my friends who think it's pretty difficult. I go to Harvard, and I think it's difficult and so do most people I know at Harvard. So all this bs about it being easy is a myth to all the students who go there. And when did people say any "excuses" about working hard. I SAID that people are generally too preoccupied with working hard on school work to care that much about what you're wearing or what you're driving. And, at Harvard, I have found that to be true.</p>

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This may be true, but I have no idea. At MY college, there is a non-existent greek scene, so it doesn't seem too much like high school to me.</p>

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<li>I think I was thinking more "close to 40%" than over. In either case, I ballparked it about correct, yeah? It's still a huge number.</li>
<li>Yeah, I actually heard this, which initially attracted me to the school. But to be honest, after checking out the different ones it really seemed no different then the Greek scene at any school.</li>
<li>I said it was one of the most selective schools at NW. It may very well be, but perhaps that is only because it is one of the most known and more people apply. In any case, do you have the link to this admissions info by schoolC? The exact selectivity of the journalism school and how it stacked up to NW's other colleges was bugging me so much I was gonna call admissions 10 minutes ago, haha!</li>
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I am seriously disappointed with the highly inaccurate description of Northwestern. I am about to be a senior, and I have never seen such an emphasis on cliques or name-brand clothes.

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<p>Nobody ever said that, so no worries. Compared to the public schools I've checked out, though, it really was just preppier and there were really were a lot more rich kids walking around in fancy clothes. I also didn't like how big the Greek scene was, whether it was supposed to be different from other Greek scenes or not. I was just trying to use it as an example, to show that obviously, due to cost, at elite schools there will be a bigger and more visible contigent of wealthy kids. But that's where my comments about Northwestern stopped. Honestly, like I said, I think that the people there are probably fine and everyone is really smart. I just didn't enjoy the vibe as much as I did some other schools.</p>

<p>Oh, and I'm from Frederick County.</p>

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<p>umcp11,</p>

<p>nu used to keep the average sat by school under their registrar--> enrollment stats website. but they took it out last year. the average sat in the past 20 years have always been: mccormick > weinberg > medill >= communication > music = education</p>

<p>edit: i posted them couple times here before when they were available. you may be able to find those posts.</p>

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<p>I find the "public schools are like high schools, private schools are much classier" a really elitist argument. Some students choose their private schools because they want a namebrand. Of course not all , but one look on these boards will show you that it happens.</p>

<p>It doesn't follow that the students in those schools are then somehow less concerned with petty high school things (like... namebrands) than state school students. I think you get a mix of people wherever you go, and your experience depends on who you involve yourself with.</p>

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Big Brother, but that's the point. People can be conspicuous with their fashion and personal possessions, but that doesn't stop them from being friends with people who aren't. Whereas in high school (at least my high school) people generally only hung out with people like them (those who dressed the same and had the same stuff). So, in that sense, college and high school are very different (the point I was trying to make). And, just for the record, I've been dressing the way I do and buying the things I have for most of my life, it didn't suddenly happen when I got to Harvard.

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<p>So that just begs the question, why is it that many people feel compelled to spend quite a bit on a wardrobe? After all, nobody else is going to care about those students with a mostly conservative look, right? Would people still tend to wear top notch fashion had they gone to a conservative southern school?</p>

<p>Hey, I like to wear Burberry and all those other nice brands too. The fact of the matter though is that these styles were socially out of context at the university I was at. Like it or not, we tend to act accordingly with respect to our peers. If everyone else allows the high school quarterback alpha male to grab the popularity spotlight in high school, when then they've all acted accordingly within their own social contexts. Owning a Lexus is a positive social stigma, even though you'd probably do just fine with a Civic. The real question is, are our subconscious, superficial attitudes really that different from high school? Again, this depends on where you go to college and high school. I think it's safe to say however that the top schools do have a level of luxury that you just don't really see sticking out at a state school (at least, this is what I've noticed from my personal experiences). I mean, the differences in just appearances between Harvard and UGA are like night and day.</p>

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But I don't go to Caltech or MIT, so how hard they're working has no bearing on me or how hard I work. They may come to Harvard and think it's a cakewalk.

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<p>Yes, but you've pointed out that Harvard students work "too hard" to be able to indulge in their surroundings? Really? A poster, sakky, has posted an article on the opinion of a student about the grading system at Harvard. The general perception, and indeed, consensus seems to be that you don't have to work all that hard to get decent grades. As long as you do all of your homework and research assignments, and attend all of your classes, you should be able to get a B. As long as you do the bare minimum, you're going to pass. It might not be an A, but it's still going to be a fairly solid grade.</p>

<p>My friend in Math 55 somehow found time to get drunk off his behind several times a week - and he was one of the few to have survived the class. Surely if he can do that while solving some difficult proofs, you should be able to find time to socialize and indulge in your surroundings too, right? After all, if anyone is "working too hard," it'd be him. Heck, if anyone is "working too hard," it should be those Caltech students on the other coast.</p>

<p>Whoever works hard - that's a relative attachment. I don't think anyone has ever argued that Harvard is actually harder than a more grade deflated school like Cornell. And of course, if you're at Harvard and choose not to work, then you can do that too. I point out again to Vice President Gore's son as mentioned in "The Price of Admissions." He did the bare minimum, and still graduated. Sure he didn't get great grades, but he still graduated. Since you've been at a school for a while around a bunch of students that seemingly have a lot to do, then sure you'd think that you're working hard too. But really, is it that bad? Is it as bad as what those Caltech students have?</p>

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I never said that. I said that the kids are working to hard to care about what you're wearing, which is true. </p>

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I never complained about it, I never said it was THAT bad. You extrapolated a bunch of random things from my post.</p>

<p>I said that kids are too busy to really care about things that people cared about in high school (i.e.how much money you have, what you're wearing, what kind of car you drive). </p>

<p>You extrapolated that:
1. I was complaining
2. I meant that kids don't have time to "indulge in their surroundings"
3. I have an overestimated view of how hard Harvard is</p>