College list has re-expanded..sighs

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>Need to finalize my college list, which originally was narrowed to 8 from 20 but now joined by 7new additions. I want to keep at >2 reaches as lottery tickets and about 10 total </p>

<p>Stats:
15 APs by graduation(mostly 5's and some 4's)
2100 SAT 1st sit-in, will retake(hopefully 2200-2300 range)
other-rank 1/350
numerous community service &ECs /internship/shadowing/job experience
rec: 1 is iffy (teacher used template T_T
other 1-hopefully crazy good</p>

<p>the factors most important to me are</p>

<ol>
<li>Cost-either 100% FinAid met or substantial scholarship (full tuition/ride)</li>
<li>Quality of science program(pre-med), business and foreign language</li>
<li>Quality of life-more cooperative and not uber- competitive, good dorms and food</li>
<li>Flexible & wide-range of courses-no strict core-class requirements, large availability of foreign language classes</li>
<li>good grad admission rate/or in a metropolitan city w/ opportunities</li>
</ol>

<p>Career interests: dentistry, pharmaceuatical management, undecided (still searching for a dream job: job security, 100,000+ starting salary, travel ops, involving science or business or foreign language (too idealistic to be real)) </p>

<p>Reaches:
WUSTL (top choice)
Upenn
Columbia(* added due to my parent's ivy dreams)
Brown *
Cornell *
Bowdoin
UNC Chapel Hill
Barnard College</p>

<p>Matches:
Case Western
Grinnell
University of Rochester
Muhlenburg</p>

<p>Safeties:
Stevens Institute of Tech.
Ohio State U.
Drexel</p>

<hr>

<p>If you have rec for schools/careers meeting these qualifications please let me know!</p>

<p>Thanks all for taking the time to read and/or reply to this post. I really need as much help as I can get b/c my parents don't believe that college visits are necessary. They are only permitting me to visit one -thus WASHU is the only one I can visit. </p>

<hr>

<p>PS:
The cost is a big factor because I don't want to become a burden for parents since they are gonna help pay for grad school as well. I do love $$$ but the reason is because I can then pay off debts and let my parents retire & pay for brother's tuition thus a high-paying job is necessary.</p>

2

<p>I would suggest to take off all the Ivies but one.
Only have one safety. After all, it’s a safety. You only need one of them. Pick your two favorite matches.
That narrows it down to seven.</p>

3

<p>Have you gone through the FAFSA calculations with your parents yet?
Are you on the same page about your financial expectations?</p>

4

<p>I would really whittle down the IVY applications - probably to 2 as you mentioned. Really take a look at each and decide what it is you like about the schools. Since you seem to have a pre-professional bent I would consided UPenn. I would go with Penn & Brown.</p>

<p>Muhlenburg a match? I suppose. I would consider it a total safety for you & a place that would give you $$$. When I looked at the school a year ago the admssions person mentioned that by senior year of high school they like to see that their applicants have challenged themselves by taking a few honors classes or adding at least 1 AP class so with your 15AP’s I am sure you will blow them away!</p>

5

<p>Make sure your safeties are definitely affordable, as well as places where you will be admitted. A safety is not a safety if you cannot afford it – admission with insufficient financial aid is the same as a rejection (or worse, if you decide to attend and take on unreasonably large amounts of student loan debt).</p>

<p>Also, reach/match/safety is best thought of in both admissions and cost terms. For cost, a reach is a school which may give enough financial aid, but is unlikely to do so (e.g. it offers a large merit scholarship that you have a chance of getting, but not a large chance of getting, and would be unaffordable otherwise). A cost match is one that is likely but not certain to give enough financial aid. A cost safety is one that will definitely be affordable (e.g. one where you can afford the list price, or which offers guaranteed financial aid and/or scholarships for your stats that makes it affordable).</p>

<p>Overall, classify a school as the more difficult of the admissions and cost ratings. E.g. admissions safety / cost reach = reach; admissions match / cost safety = match. However, a school that is a high match for both admissions and cost may end up being an overall reach.</p>

<p>Don’t bother to apply to any school that is out of reach for either admissions or cost (i.e. no chance of being admitted, or no chance of being able to afford it).</p>

6

<p>Nice that you want to save yor parents’ money for grad school. Getting need-based aid depends on your family’s financial position, as calculated by the college- not your later plans. Suggest you read finaid.org to get your bearings. Also, remember that admissions is not all about stats and the number of APs. This fall, nearly all colleges will have a finaid calculator on their web sites. Go work through one- you may be stunned at how schools will view your “need” for aid.</p>

7

<p>If you truly need a “full ride,” then scratch WashU off your list. The most they offer is full tuition plus a thousand bucks. ([Scholarship</a> Programs At-A-Glance](<a href=“http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships/programs/Pages/default.aspx]Scholarship”>http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships/programs/Pages/default.aspx)). And even these are extremely competitive and your stats, while excellent, are not going to place you at the very top of the applicant pool.</p>

<p>Personally, I would scratch all the reaches, since they either don’t offer merit scholarships or your stats would not qualify you for the scholarships they do offer.</p>

<p>Or I would have a heart-to-heart with mom and dad about the financial situation. If your parents have “Ivy Dreams,” then it is not reasonable to expect your parents to open their “Ivy checkbook?”</p>

8

<p>Case Western is quite expensive even with a lot of aid and with your current SAT (and no GPA given) I am skeptical about anything more selective (your reaches). Be prepared for a wait list at WUSTL. You need more matches like these academically and are also realistic financially. Cut the starting salary in half and there’s at least a small chance you could find your dream job/career.</p>

9

<p>Do you know what your financial need is going to be? A few of the schools you mention offer to meet 100% of need. Knowing where you stand with that will really help shape your list.
Also, if there are Ivy Dreams why not take an Ivy Visit? Seems to be a better use of time & money!
Your GPA must be pretty darn good if you are #1 in your class!</p>

10

<p>Thanks everyone for the awesome and comprehensive responses. These responses really helped me </p>

<p>I have calculated our EFC and it shows up being around 15,000ish which is well within the amount my parents are willing to pay.
@ annasdad
Thank you for the advice about talking to my parents about college. I’ve been talking to them for the last 3 yrs abt it lolz. Yes, my parents are willing to pay for the ivy-tuition simply for the Ivy name. But unfortunately, their recognition only extends to HYPSM+Upenn+a few other ivies. I’ve tried convincing that WUSTL +UNC are equally deserving but to no avail. Thus, my parents are willing to pay abt 20,000 max for education at any other college besides the ones of their recognition. </p>

<p>However, because I don’t really care about the name I’m content with going to whichever college that will offer best(lowest) price for the quality-which I weigh based on the factors I have listed above. </p>

<p>The 2 reaches that I’m really partial to are Upenn and WUSTl. WUSTL because it seems to embody the whole cooperative community, good pre-med program, med-size, metropolitan city factors that I really like (not to mention the good food and dorms). Although I realize that my chances of getting a scholarship at WUSTL is miniscule, because they meet 100% need(correct me if I’m wrong) I think it doesn’t hurt to try. I like Upenn because of their rigorous pre-med program, Wharton business and also I’ve looked into their course offerings and they offered all the languages I wanted to take + they meed 100% need (?). UNC Chapel seems really strong in all the fields I’m interested in, but the only concern is that I’m under the impression that their 100% need met only extends to in-state students…Barnard is still in consideration bc it’s in NYC and 100%aid. </p>

<p>Case Western, although it doesn’t meet 100% aid, offers the 6-yr dental program. However, because I don’t think my chances of qualifying are very high, I don’t know if I should go. Muhlenberg, I’m def applying to due to its offering of scholarships, consortium with Upenn, and proximity to Philly. Stony Brook was recently suggested for its strength in research but I’m unsure about its FinAid/scholarships.</p>

<p>Finally, OSU, because I qualify for numerous scholarhships and I’m in-state and Drexel is still a maybe-simply because other than its co-op program, I don’t know much about its aid and vibe. </p>

<p>Thus, now my list is :</p>

<p>Upenn
WUSTL
UNC Chapel
Barnard College</p>

<p>Case Western
Muhlenberg
Stony Brook (?)</p>

<p>OSU
Drexel(maybe)</p>

<p>Is this a good final list or do I need a few more?</p>

11

<p>You understand that “100% aid” is really 100% of “need” and that the college determines that need? Eg, though your Fafsa EFC is $15k, after reviewing your CSS Profile, the college may determine that your family contribution should be, say, $20k. Thus, at a 55k school, “100% of need” would mean roughly 35k. Fine, except that not all of that is usually grant aid/free money. Most will include $1500-2000 in work study and most will somehow count your $5500 of Stafford loans. So, caveat emptor.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>See if your stats will give you the [University</a> of Alabama Presidential Scholarship](<a href=“http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html]University”>http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html). This is full tuition, which leaves about $14,000 of other expenses per year.</p>

13

<p>@lookingforward
Thanks and yes, I am aware of the fact that it may not all be grants and some may be work-study. For loans, if the amount isn’t substantial, I think there is a possibility that my parents will pay it off and I can handle working during college. </p>

<p>@mrego
Thanks for the info about Case Western. I mostly considered it because its proximity from my house and its 6 yr program. However, as I’m not even sure about applying to the six-yr program bc its dental school is like 95,000/yr which is more than 30000 than my state schools, I don’t know if I should apply if their need met isn’t that high.</p>

14

<p>

</p>

<p>Forgive me for belaboring this point, which others have made, but it’s very important to understand. “100% of need” refers to need as calculated by the FAFSA formula, and in the case of (I believe) every school on your reach list, also the CSS PROFILE determinations made by those schools. If your parents are truly able to pay Ivy-level tuition, you will probably qualify for very little need-based aid anywhere. Therefore, you should consider concentrating your search on schools that are known to give substantial merit aid to someone with your excellent stats. The Ivies, as I understand it, give no merit aid. WUSTL gives only a very few large scholarships. There are many, many schools, however, where you would qualify for substantial merit aid awards based on your stats - schools where you would track well above the 75th percentile of admitted applicants.</p>

15

<p>@annasdad</p>

<p>My parents’ annual income is less than 60,000$- if this helps with explaining my status. However, they’re willing to sacrifice more of their income/savings in order for me to go to at top school, meaning that even though I have calculated our EFC to be less than 10,000, if a college demands more, my parents are willing to pay more out of their savings. </p>

<p>Thus, if the college with 55,000 tuition+r&b determines our need to be 30,000k, it means that they will provide the 30,000k with grants/loans/work-study and we will have to pay 25,000 (25,000 is ok with my parents as long as its a top-school) right?</p>

<p>[Student</a> financial aid in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Student financial aid in the United States - Wikipedia”>Student financial aid in the United States - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>If I’m understanding it correctly (please correct me if it doesn’t work that way), the no-loan if annual income is under 60,000 of some of my reach schools means that in my package, it will be mostly grants/work-study. However, since I don’t know how assets/savings come into play I really have no idea if there will be loans-which will increase the amount we have to pay… </p>

<p>If you know some schools that I could qualify for substantial merit aid, could you please let me know?</p>

<p>Thank you! Your explanation really brought more of my attention toward the idea of the amount that the college will actually consider as need. While I know of my parent’s income, I only have an estimate of my parents assets so I don’t know how big of a role it will come into play. Furthermore, I was wondering if you knew how assets such as house/cars/business will be apprised. Do we determine it on our own or our accountant/someone else does?Anyways, thanks again for giving me more help than my counselor ever has.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>If you do get into Harvard, Stanford, or a few other super-selective schools, you will likely find it very inexpensive to attend, since those schools are more generous than typical with need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>[Fact</a> Sheet](<a href=“http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page246751]Fact”>http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page246751)
[The</a> Parent Contribution : Stanford University](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html]The”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html)</p>

<p>But getting admitted to them is like winning the lottery, even if you have “maximum” stats (GPA, test scores, high school course rigor). I.e. admissions super reach / cost safety => overall super reach.</p>

17

<p>The “A-Word.” Assets. Home equity, investments (except legit retirement funds,) cash. Not yet corrected are some disputed methods of calculating assets from self-employment or an owned business. Some have supplemental questions about cars, etc. Some don’t ask about cars but ask about some other spending or expenses. And, no one really knows the formula. You can look at the Profile form now.<br>
Yes, if your need is calculated (by the college) at 30k, a “meets full need” school should create an aid package that consists of work study, “student contribution” (usually from summer earnings,) grants and loans.</p>

<p>Earnings from work study can vary by school. Also, the range of the stu contribution can vary- my jr dau’s is about 1950. I notice a Brown example that expects upper classes to contribute $2900. You really have to pore over all of a college’s finaid web info. Follow all links. And, rather than wiki, look at finaid.org.</p>

<p>Another thing: it is possible to get common app fee waivers- some schools, just for using the CA, some for certain income levels. This may allow you to take a chance.</p>

18

<p>

I have to ask: your parents make under $60K and you want them to pay for grad school, too?</p>