A lot of the mid-sized (5000 to 10,000) schools are catholic. They will be liberal, but not as liberal as she might like. They might have better sports than other schools of the same size, especially basketball.
If you take all those out, she’s going to have to decide on some other priorities - size, location (she might find herself in the sticks), not as many sports (or as good).
IMO, a school of 2500 is small. If the school is in a consortium, there might be more courses available at one of the other schools or even a club she’s interested in or a sports team (I don’t think the Amherst consortium allows athletes to play on other schools’ teams, but I could be wrong), but the ‘home’ school is still small. Make sure there are enough math professors or lab classes if that’s what she’s interested in.
Thank you , yes it seems her ideal size is mostly reserved for the Ivies and Catholic schools . I agree 2500 is small, 3000 would be better although still pretty small.
There is catholic… and catholic. Georgetown is catholic (Jesuit) but progressive kids of all religions have a great time there. Same for Boston College, it isn’t an aspect of those schools that needs to impact a kid in any way if they don’t want it to.
Maybe Colorado State University or Appalachian State University? (not as selective but prestigious)
Or maybe Bowdoin (selective and prestigious)?
What does she want to study?
There is a difference between the Jesuits and Ave Maria or Franciscan, but BC and Georgetown are still Catholic schools and that will have an influence. Is the student willing to be respectful of the mission of the school, the calendar (Easter isn’t always at the most convenient time), the guest speakers on campus or in classes? Willing to accept that non-catholics can’t be married in the churches or chapels on campus (unless marrying a catholic), will have to put up with crucifixes and stained glass around campus? Okay with the health care plan?
People have to decide if it will bother them or not. Not all of it can be ignored. The schools are very accepting of non-catholics, but the non-catholics have to be accepting of the schools too.
I am only reporting the views of my child who just graduated from Georgetown- a very liberal, very secular, Jewish kid. I would encourage the poster to perhaps consider Georgetown and BC whereas there are catholic schools we would have never considered, like ND and similar.
Thank you. I get what you are saying! I definitely understand there are levels of and different types of catholic schools - Jesuit being most appropriate for our family if at all. I think we will look at BC when in Boston looking at other schools. In many ways it may have what she is looking for. And Georgetown if we make it that direction. I have several nieces and nephews at other Catholic schools like Villanova and ND, it’s just not for us.
We were in the same boat with D20. As many people have stated, looking for a midsize school is tough as most are highly selective and/or catholic. She did not want a catholic school and did not like Villanova or Providence, but after visiting BC she fell in love and that is where she is. She was a 3 sport athlete in high school and had the opportunity to play at a D3 school, but just couldn’t get past the small size and remote location. (S18 is at a small LAC so she spent some time there and knew it was not for her.) She is also more than a little left leaning, as are all her friends at BC. She liked BC because with just under 10k undergrads the size was perfect for her, school spirit is off the charts, beautiful campus with easy access to the city, lots of club and intramural sport opportunities and, most importantly, strong liberal arts curriculum. I guess this a long winded way of saying BC is definitely worth a look. In addition to the great suggestions you have already received, U Miami maybe worth a look due to size, proximity to city, and spirit. I believe they offer some decent merit packages. Good luck and enjoy the process!
Our counselor told us William and Mary was politically and socially diverse, and seems to meet all of the other requirements. D and W visited and thought it was beautiful and chill and felt academic in a non-snooty way.
I was going to say William and Mary and Vermont. My son is the same- he wants good school spirit, 5 -10,000 people, and not Greek oriented, and left leaning. We’ve had a hard time, to be honest- mainly due to aid given (we don’t qualify for need based, but would qualify for merit at some of these). He’s had to compromise on his “perfect” fit a little bit. He’s thrown size out the window and will probably go to UMD if he gets in (as it is our flagship anyway), but we are visiting Vermont next month. If money wasn’t an object he would be looking at William and Mary, Georgetown, and Vassar as well.
Rather than concentrating on the student population, I think it is better to concentrate on the “fit”.
If your daughter prefers to
Urban vs rural. Even if the college may be small, urban colleges make you feel larger. At the same time you can have the tight knit atmosphere.
Competitive vs collaborative
Diversity. This is a tricky one. If your daughter emphasizes diversity, she still needs to look deeper. She may want to check if the college environment is still diversified in the true sense, or there are divisions among races within the school. This you just need to see it for yourself.
is the ranking of school important? Is it important? Some people value this the most.
Gut feeling vs all these stats about the colleges. Can she see herself enjoying there?
Academic vs sports. Will the coach provide academic support, or sports come first?
I don’t know. There may be more factors for selections, but you will need to look much deeper than the surface of the colleges.
From your criteria, Middlebury comes to mind, except it is small and rural.
Macalester college also comes to mind, except it is in Mid West, a small college but in a big city.
Yes, I hear good things about W&M too. If your son is an athlete, and if you are visiting Vermont, Middlebury is a good school. If your son wants to go to an urban school, then Middlebury is not the one…
Thanks! Will definitely do tour when in Boston this fall. Also checking out Tufts, Northeastern (although big), not sure what else…. Was your daughter able to find club sports to play? Mine needs to decide between pursuing D3 or finding a good school big enough to have decent club opportunity)
Due to Covid there were no club sports and limited intramural opportunities last year. She will be trying out for her club sport next weekend. About 80 girls vying for 7 or 8 spots so very competitive. (some Schools do not have tryouts for club, everyone makes it) They had one workout last spring and she said all of the girls were skilled players.
Northeastern also has competitive club sports. Although not as spirited as BC, they have a top notch hockey team that the school rallies around. It is a great school, in the city, a bit bigger than BC, people tend to have a love/hate relationship with the campus. Tufts, although D3, has some of the best teams in almost every sport in which they compete. I do not know if They have club sports, but It’s a great school for sure! I would say it is a bit more selective than BC or NU.
Thank you for the insight into club sports. That’s also what I am a bit worried about…. Not even making a club team, especially at a bigger school with lots of talented athletes! Many considerations for sure.
This was almost exactly what our D21 was looking for. It’s hard. Wanted small to medium (no bigger than 6,000 undergrads), school spirit, mainstream and bright kids, beautiful campus, strong alumni base and career center. Undecided on major so advising was also important.
She did end up applying to a number of Jesuit schools because they fit the criteria. Some felt more religious that others but all had plenty of non-Catholic students. Places like Villanova and Notre Dame were too Catholic for her and not on the list. Here’s where she applied-
University of Denver - accepted with merit
Santa Clara -accepted with merit
Loyola Marymount - accepted with merit
Furman (kind of an outlier) -accepted with merit
Davidson - accepted
Boston College- accepted
Lehigh - accepted
University of Richmond - accepted
Colgate - accepted and now enrolled
Wake Forest - waitlisted
Middlebury - denied
Just googled top schools without Greek life and here are the top 5. I believe all except for Rice are Catholic. Unfortunately, some of her criteria are probably going to have to change.
BC
Fordham
Rice
Norte Dame
University of Portland
And unfortunately, sporty kids and social justice warriors often don’t end up on the same campus. Not to say schools with SJ kids don’t have sports or athletes, but they are often not interested in watching other kids play sports. And not to say BC doesn’t have SJ kids, but it depends how prevalent she wants each culture to be.
@alligroovi, My D is a happy freshman at W&M. It may not be urban enough for your child, but at least the tourism does bring in more shops, people and money to the area, making it seem a little more vibrant than the typical small town of the size of Williamsburg (we live in a sleepy small town and my D feels the difference). The little downtown next to campus caters mostly to tourists so it can’t be considered a true college town But it IS durn cute and has coffee shops, restaurants, a bar, clothing and gift shops (Lululemon is a recent addition). Most students don’t have cars but they get a free pass to the town busses that go to multiplex cinemas, an outlet mall and big box stores. Plenty of new shopping centers springing up. So no, there’s no MOMA to visit or edgy urban center, but it’s not in the middle of nowhere, either. One third of students are from out-of-state, and the majority of these are from the NE and Mid-Atlantic. Many of the Virginia students are from DC suburbs and exurbs, and I’m assuming many of those have parents who are transplants from elsewhere.
It isn’t an activist school (though there is some activism). I feel moderates would feel comfortable there but it does lean left. Not a powerhouse athletic school, but students seem to enjoy participating in school sports, club sports and all kinds of activities such as sailing, yoga, an outdoor club, various social dancing clubs and volunteer groups. There is a small lake on campus with canoes and kayaks for students to use, and lots of wooded areas for feeling close to nature (campus has more than 1000 acres). School spirit abounds, but it is found in a sense of camaraderie outside of sports as well. My D definitely didn’t want a school where Greek life dominates. She hasn’t ruled out Greek life 100 percent but probably won’t join a sorority, and if she does, would join a more inclusive one. It doesn’t seem to be a school where non-Greeks are separated from Greeks. My D is Asian-American so diversity and inclusion is important to her. It is known as very LGBTQ-friendly. The school seems to be making great efforts at increasing the sense of overall inclusion. Even though it’s just a symbolic gesture, W&M is building a memorial on the ancient part of campus to acknowledge and honor the formerly enslaved upon whose labor the school was created.
At 6000 undergraduates (I believe around 2000 graduate students) William & Mary seems to have hit the sweet spot for my D in many ways, though it’s still early days.
Hope this is helpful to you in your search for your D. I think it may be difficult to find everything your D wants in a school (you’re right that mid-sized non-religious, selective schools are few and far between), so it will be important to figure out the priorities.
Thank you. Yes my daughter is a unique mix of sport/social justice loving, making this search interesting! She is flexible though, so I trust she will make things work. Just have to figure out a reasonable list!
. I agree 2500 is small, 3000 would be better although still pretty small.