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<p>I would assume colleges would have their own criteria but it should be close shouldn't it? >></p>
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<p>How could the college criteria be "close" when there are hundreds of different ways that High Schools compute GPAs? Which "high school criteria" would you expect them to choose...yours? The colleges set their OWN criteria for computing GPA including the point value, the courses they choose (or don't choose) to include, and whether they weigh the grades...or not. </p>
<p>I will tell you...when my daughter was a junior, I realized that her high school was NOT computing GPAs correctly. Some of the "old timers" on this forum will remember my discussions with the guidance office and administration. Bottom line was that they were using a VERY old formula from prior to when honors/AP courses were even offered that was used to convert their former 100 scale GPAs to the 4.0 GPA. In the "transition" they somehow were weighing Honors and AP courses with LESS weight than less challenging courses. I researched HUNDREDS of high schools and actually sent my daughter's transcript to at least 10 different schools where her GPA was computed by their guidance offices (friends in "high places" helped me get this done). Of the 10 or so different computations, there were only a couple that agreed with one another. The rest were different. Some schools included only core courses, some didn't include phys ed or arts courses, some didn't include electives, some included everything, some included plus and minus grades and others didn't. The point values assigned (on 4 point scales) also varied. If this is the difference between 10 or so high schools all in a close geographic area, I can only imagine the variation around the country. Oh...the one thing ALL agreed on was that for HIGH SCHOOLS who do weigh grades, the weighted GPA of a student taking honors/AP courses should be higher than the unweighted GPA..thus my battle with guidance, which I subsequently won...after months of presenting them with information.</p>
<p>My point is that the college(s) set their OWN GPA recomputation rules and they may very well NOT be at all like what your high school does. I have to agree with others...it doesn't sound like the miscomputed the GPA of YOUR child...it sounds like this formula (whatever it is) is what THAT school uses for recomputation of GPA for all applicants.</p>
<p>re weighting courses- at my younger daughters high school, which does not weight-some years they have had 44 valedictorians.</p>
<p>While some students have taken maybe 10 AP courses- there are some who might not have taken any. They are contemplating weighting courses in the future & while I can see their reasoning- I don't think that not weighting, has interfered with the strongest students attending the most competitive colleges.</p>
<p>I also think that students who are getting A's by working their tails off should be recognized as well, even though my daughter only took 4 APs (and she indeed did work her tail off- but whose GPA didn't really reflect that).</p>
<p>For the most part- when students take a rigorous course whether honors or AP or even just a difficult subject like chem or physics, they are helping to prepare themselves for future study to a greater extent than if they took a course with easier grading.</p>
<p>It isn't about the grades, it is what you get out of ( and put into )it. However, in courses with grade inflation, students may be unaware of the level required for same course at other schools, even in the same district.</p>
<p>re weighting courses- at my younger daughters high school, which does not weight-some years they have had 44 valedictorians.</p>
<p>While some students have taken maybe 10 AP courses- there are some who might not have taken any. They are contemplating weighting courses in the future & while I can see their reasoning- I don't think that not weighting, has interfered with the strongest students attending the most competitive colleges.</p>
<p>I also think that students who are getting A's by working their tails off should be recognized as well, even though my daughter only took 4 APs (and she indeed did work her tail off- but whose GPA didn't really reflect that).</p>
<p>For the most part- when students take a rigorous course whether honors or AP or even just a difficult subject like chem or physics, they are helping to prepare themselves for future study to a greater extent than if they took a course with easier grading.</p>
<p>It isn't about the grades, it is what you get out of ( and put into )it. However, in courses with grade inflation, students may be unaware of the level required for same course at other schools, even in the same district.</p>
<p><em>*She had 8 honor classes. An example is a B- in Honors They reduced it to a C-. Her school gives a B- in honors 4.17 quality points, a B- in a level one course gets her a 3.67. Since they did not distinguish between level 1 and honor courses and reduced both course types by a letter grade, she received no credit for taking harder courses and basically was penalized for it. *</em></p>
<p>My D also attends a school on a 5.0 scale. Honors/AP courses are weighted an extra 0.5 points. It sounds like the same system you have. If my D got a B- in an honors/AP course, that would be a 4.17 at her school. I would expect a college that was converting it for their own purposes to call it a 2.67 if they didn't weight. I have no idea what they'd call it if they weighted, because I can't imagine that every institution weights the same way. For instance, at my nephew's high school, they weight an extra 1.0 points for an AP/honors course. I know of other schools that weight an extra 0.5 for an honors course but 1.0 point for an AP course. It's because of the wide range of weighting systems (including no weighting) that colleges recompute. Also, an honors course at one high school may be easier than a standard college prep course at a more rigorous high school. Bottom line, if my daughter's B- in an honors class was recomputed to a 2.67 by a college, I wouldn't view that as being "penalized" for taking a more rigorous course. Sure, she might have gotten a higher grade had she taken the standard course, but then again, she might not have.</p>
<p>Colleges primarily look at two things on a transcript: strength of classes taken (in terms of both rigor and breadth) and the grades in those classes.</p>
<p>High schools use widely different GPA systems, and it would be difficult and confusing to compare GPAs of students with two completely different grading systems - the person with the lower GPA could have actually taken a stronger curriculum and gotten better grades!</p>
<p>To compensate, many colleges recalculate GPAs using one standard.</p>
<p>Of course, this still doesn't make GPAs 100% comparable, because of varying degrees of grade inflation.</p>
<p>I'm w/ kcompe here: 4/5 = 3.22/4. Yes thumper, there are the variables for honors, etc., but my understanding is that AP/Honors classes are weighted to 6.0 scale at schools on the 5.0 system. True, kcompe?</p>
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<p>AP/Honors classes are weighted to 6.0 scale at schools on the 5.0 system>></p>
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<p>That is not universally true at all high schools with a 5.0 scale AND more importantly...it is NOT true at all for how the colleges choose to recompute the GPA. Again...some colleges do NOT weigh the values when they recompute the GPA. It sounds like this particular college does not (although that is a pure guess since we really don't have the formula the college used).</p>
<p>Hi,
I am new to this forum, so if I am asking something that is inappropriate or against the guidelines, please excuse me; would you mind publicizing the institution and the program to which your daughter applied? I am curious because it is widely known in the world of higher education that HS GPAs are unreliable indicators of a student's potential to succeed at college-level work. (Although I am not currently serving on any admissions committees, I am a college professor and I keep up with the trends related to my larger profession.) </p>
<p>Because there is absolutely no way to standardize the rigor of HS courses and the assessment of student work, the trend of forward-thinking institutions is to look at the HS GPA but not to regard it as a reliable indicator of a student's potential to succeed in college-level courses. Standardized tests like the ACT and the SAT are more valid measures, although we know that these tests privilege the privileged and that they must be regarded with caution. Moreover, many very good private and public institutions are now dispensing with the SAT or ACT as a requirement for admission.</p>
<p>I can attest to the unreliability of GPAs. Just this past semester, I encountered a student with severe deficiencies in reading and writing. When we talked, she told me that she had been advised to take my honors course because she had taken an advanced placement course the previous year...I found this very sad but not so surprising: last summer, I scored AP English lit essays for the College Board and the majority of essays that I and my fellow readers reviewed earned scores that were below average. </p>
<p>Bottom line: GPAs tell little. As a parent, I vigilantly monitor the degree of rigor of my son's 6th grade education. If he is not being challenged intellectually, then while he may earn an A quite easily, he is being sorely short-changed. This is the situation of many students whom I have taught--they graduated with high GPAs, only to have to take remedial English and/or math courses once they got to college. It is important for parents and students to remember that if a student exhibits excellence in some areas, a B or even a C, will not kill him/her. </p>
<p>I realize that my post does not respond directly to the original post, nor do I offer much that can alleviate your clear anger and anxiety. Perhaps you can take some comfort knowing that GPA is only one part of the package; if your daughter's intellectual abilities are obvious by high tests scores, stellar extracurricular achievements, and a well-written and creative admissions essay, she should be in good shape. </p>
<p>While somewhat off point, I have never seen a school dismiss classes above the level required when computing GPA. Art is one thing (they may remove these in calculating GPA), but a third or fourth year of a language? An extended course load in Math or science? No. Especially the case if the grades are trending up. There is no way a B in french I taken freshman year is going to have more weight than the A in French 3 during the Jr. year. THis of course, assumes they use languages in computing GPA at all.</p>
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<p>I have never seen a school dismiss classes above the level required when computing GPA.>></p>
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<p>DS's college did NOT use his statistics grade when recomputing his GPA. They also did not use sociology or psychology courses. They ONLY used core courses (full math sequence through calculus, sciences, English, foreign languages, social studies but no electives in the social sciences). No arts courses (not even things like Music Theory or Art History), no physical education.</p>
<p>BUT the important thing is that NOT ALL SCHOOLS USE THE SAME COURSES AND FORMULA and certainly not the same one as the high schools.</p>
<p>"I admit I did not do so well in college english- but wouldn't the term " oxymoron" apply to a majority that fell below average ?"</p>
<p>Only if you use "average" to mean "median." If you use it to mean "mean," then it's easy. Consider a scenario in which 60 kids score 3 and 40 kids score 5. The mean is (60<em>3+40</em>5)/100=3.8. So 60 kids of the 100 are in fact below average.</p>
<p>I think the OP is missing the point. As has been stated in the thread, each college will take your child's transcript and re-calculate it using their OWN method. They presumably use the SAME method for every student applying to their college. Therefore it doesn't matter if the college did it <em>right</em> or not. As long as they apply the same standard to all their applicants, then chose from within those applicants, your daughter did not suffer. Other students would have their GPA calculated by the same method. It doesn't matter if she ended up with a 2.7 or a 3.7 - in COMPARISON to the other applicants to this school, she came out lower. So they denied her. </p>
<p>GPA by itself is meaningless in college applications. All that matters is how my GPA compares to the rest of the applicant pool. Doesn't matter how the school calculates it, as long as they use the same method for all students.</p>
<p>The question becomes - did the college correctly understand your D's transcript in terms of the level of difficulty of her classes? And did they use some combination of her letter grades and the difficulty of her classes to decide whether to admit her? Whether they weight an honors class or not is their perogative. Many elite schools only count core classes and do not weight them when calculating GPA. They then use the GPA they calculate, along with a sort-of "strength of schedule" calculation, to make their determination.</p>
<p>You said this school was a reach for your D anyway, so I wouldn't pursue this too hard. Best of luck to her with the rest of her match and safety schools.</p>
<p>I totally agree with your post that Op's time would be better served helping her daughter add additional schools to her list. In order to prevent more disappointment down the line perhaps even using the 2.73 gpa as a bench mark to see where she is for reach, match and safety schools. Since the tribal counsel has spoken, getting an admission after the school denied her application is like spinning her wheels in the mud.</p>
<p>As I stated in my orginal post, I think that the heavy weighting done at the school wehre the OP's D attends was detrimental to her because it did not give an accurate reflection of the work.</p>
<p>Op's daughter took a course where she received a B- (2.7) and it is weighted to state that a B- in this course is an equivalent to an almost an A+ (4.17) in a regular course at her school. The college does not see it that way when comparing her to the entire applicant pool . Maybe going forward, Op should see if the school can adopt a policy of placing both the unweighted along with the weighted GPA on the transcript.</p>
<p>Hi
I have followed up with this college. I had no false hope of reversing the decision. I really needed to understand how the gpa was recalculated. They have shared additional information with me and I am fine with their explanation. My daughter would have had to get all As to have a chance in this particular college to get accepted. This was not an ivy league and pardon my ignorance for not realizing that there is so much variations in what can happen to a gpa. Honor classes were not given any additional recognition in gpa calculation as they are in my daughter's school. She had 9 honor classes. I expected that they would get additional points when determining gpa. This was the area I had the most difficulty with. I do now understand why a 3.2 ended up going to a 2.8. Once her gpa was reduced to 2.8 she was pretty much out of the candidate pool. There is other criteria used later in their process that would have brought the honor classes into consideration but she was no longer being considered. Thanks everyone for your comments, I appreciated reading them and hope my experience will serve to inform others of the variations there are in the college decision process.</p>
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My daughter would have had to get all As to have a chance in this particular college to get accepted.
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<p>Is this what the college told you? If so, it's stricter than any college I've ever heard of.
It may be more useful to go by letter grades, using only core classes, rather than numerical grades to compare what your D offered vs. other applicants.</p>
<p>I was not clear in my original post: by "average", I mean the numeric median of the assessment scale. AP essays are graded from 0-9 (with 9 being the highest), so the median of that scale would be 4.5...no?? (Math is not a strength.) I do recall our room leader telling us that the mean score of essays read by readers in our room was right around that--somedays it was lower, other days a tad higher. I hope that I have clarified my original, somewhat muddled post.</p>
<p>The letter grades are what matters on applications... high school GPAs are essentially meaningless since every high school has their own algorithm making it a comparison between apples and oranges.</p>