<p>Well, something presented by one arm of the university isn’t always what is implemented.</p>
<p>We asked questions about how noisy the dorms are, etc. We were assured that there are ‘quiet hours’, no alcohol allowed, RA’s and other staff are there to oversee the situation etc… </p>
<p>Yes, there are plenty of rules, and they are posted. But no one enforced them, and D’s dorm was a madhouse.</p>
<p>I hate when schools say “there’s something for everyone here.” I got sucked into that crap. </p>
<p>Sure, maybe there is SOMEthing for everyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good fit for everyone.</p>
<p>Also, just because there are whites, blacks, asians, mexicans, australians, people from all fifty states, half male/half female, half canines whatever doesn’t mean those people are still all identical, preppy, fratty clones of each other.</p>
<p>Harvard just didn’t live up to its popular billing. It was supposed to be full of unhappy, rich, cutthroat snobs. And the professors were said to be lousy teachers who not only didn’t care about undergrads but actually resented them.</p>
<p>My daughter was very happy there. She loves the school and found it had very few unhappy or rich kids. And the professors cared very much about the undergrads and were eager to help them. The reality just didn’t add up to the reputation.</p>
<p>^^^ Why are you saying this? Popular billing!? I’ve never heard that before, even on CC. Moreover, what does it have to do with the point of this thread?</p>
<p>I didn’t think my D’s school was misrepresented in any way. The dorm she lived in freshman year and the food were much better than what was presented on the tour. All of the staff I have dealt with have been just as nice and helpful as they were during orientation. I remember thinking how friendly all the kids were with everyone - more so than on any other campus we visited. That has turned out to be true too - I am always impressed with how courteous and friendly the kids are when I walk through or visit campus. We were told about supportive, very approachable teachers and my daughter has found that to be the truth.</p>
<p>I posted a page ago about D’s experience with a school being much smaller than she expected. I just went to the school’s website (3 years later) and I still can’t find the enrollment listed anywhere. It talks about the small class sizes, though!</p>
<p>I did an internet search and even then it took me a few tries! Found information on a third party website. </p>
<p>The school does have a Facts & Figures section - but enrollment # is not one of those facts or figures!</p>
<p>
Yes, but surely Harvard didn’t tell you that at the info session, or on the tour.</p>
<p>Actually, the first time we visited Harvard, the info session gave us the impression that the students were dull, beaten-down, and unhappy. So maybe there is something to what you say.</p>
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<br>
<p>You’ve never heard on CC all those negative stereotypes about Harvard? In that case you haven’t been paying attention. </p>
<p>Here’s a small taste:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/550231-banality-sense-entitlement-rich-students-harvard.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/550231-banality-sense-entitlement-rich-students-harvard.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/14198-harvard-only-rich.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/14198-harvard-only-rich.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/816869-why-harvard-students-unhappy.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/816869-why-harvard-students-unhappy.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/330114-professors-distant-cold-harvard-mere-allegation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/330114-professors-distant-cold-harvard-mere-allegation.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1081159-snobs-harvard.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1081159-snobs-harvard.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/45907-unhappiness-harvard.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/45907-unhappiness-harvard.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/735418-undergrad-focus-harvard.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/735418-undergrad-focus-harvard.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/485971-harvard-cut-throat.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/485971-harvard-cut-throat.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1118223-stress-level-harvard.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1118223-stress-level-harvard.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/168140-harvard-princeton.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/168140-harvard-princeton.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1647777-post2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1647777-post2.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/53699-harvard-students-mostly-unhappy.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/53699-harvard-students-mostly-unhappy.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/899471-harvard-professors.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/899471-harvard-professors.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/19942-harvard-undergrad.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/19942-harvard-undergrad.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/208538-harvard-professors.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/208538-harvard-professors.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/901995-harvard-undergrad-education-bad.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/901995-harvard-undergrad-education-bad.html</a></p>
<p>coureur, you’re right about this impression about Harvard, and of course it’s challenged whenever it comes up. But does Harvard contribute to this impression? Perhaps its PR does, to some extent–I remember a particularly overblown video they showed us the first time we visited, about how Harvard has eleventy-million books and five thousand Nobel laureates, etc.</p>
<p>Of course, those of us who are Yale alums delight in spreading these criticisms of Harvard, but I don’t think we are entirely responsible.</p>
<p>I’ve always thought that one problem with Harvard is that students attending it expect it to be perfect and of course it’s not.</p>
<p>That said,I enjoyed both some of the “bad stuff” like lectures and amazing TAs, but I was in a tiny department where everyone knew everyone, and I got to know several profs really well (including some not in my department), and was hired by one prof to do some French translations for him. I wrote an honors thesis and met regularly with my two advisors. Professors came and ate dinner at the Houses on a regular basis. Etc. etc.</p>
<p>Tufts’ info session seemed stuffy and preppy - we both hated it, but liked the tours. I’d say though that son finds Tufts a little more preppy/upper middle class than he expected. (I think he would have found almost any selective college more preppy/upper middle class than he expected though.)</p>
<p>After 2 kids’ worth of college visits, I have decided there are 3 kinds of info sessions:</p>
<p>1) Basics: “Here’s the general scoop about our college and here are tips about the college admissions process”
2) Hype: “Our college is SO COOL! Look at what you can do here, and all of the famous people who went here!!!”
3) Warning: “This is what is particular about our school - there are no exceptions. Be absolutely sure it is what you want or you will not be happy here.”</p>
<p>You couldn’t predict which kind you would get, and from people’s stories, it could vary from session to session at the same school, depending on the person doing the session (our Tufts session was anything but stuffy!).</p>
<p>It was great to have a couple of #1s for each kid, especially early on, since they learned a lot about how colleges “think.” As a parent, I did NOT like #2s, because my kids would either fall in love with or be offended by the hype, and didn’t really learn what they needed to make a thoughtful choice. We all appreciated #3, felt that was honest and really helpful in considering fit.</p>
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<p>Exactly. Because it is widely seen as the ‘ideal’ there is of course much discussion about its potential ‘flaws’. Belief in a Just World phenomenon, if nothing more. </p>
<p>But this thread was about how schools advertise themselves, not what highschoolers on CC worry about in a college.</p>
<p>Yes, colleges are very selective about what data they put on their website and publications. That is why I like collegeboard.com - it has comparable data for every college. If you want more, you can usually google each colleges “common data set”.</p>
<p>For example, some colleges say “80% of accepted students were offered financial aid”. There may have been thousands of students who were using that college as a safety and decided not to accept an offer of admission. As a result, maybe only 30% of enrolled students received financial aid. Also, the term financial aid could include almost anything - including federal loans or state grants. Or, they may have offered many very small scholarships. The common data set will give real information.</p>
<p>
That’s a good point. I’ve always wondered whether the Ivies include the $2500 National Merit Scholarships when they refer to the number of students receiving financial aid.</p>
<p>
Both my kids independently decided the most valuable part of a tour was walking very near the guide and listening to the informal questions while walking along … much more insightful than the canned speech of the tour.</p>
<p>Personally, I’ve found info sessions to be almost useless and a waste of time … typically simple questions that can be found on the web (is this school SAT optional?), inane questions (when the requirements say 4 years of math does that mean 4 years of math?), or a question only applicable to their child (my son requires a doctor with expertise in XYZ will he be covered at the health center?). On days we were covering more than one school the first thing we dropped was the into session.</p>
<p>There were two notable exceptions … Bowdoin and Chicago’s info sessions were great … Bowdoin did a great explaining who they are and what they are looking for in applicants and what types of students tend to not do well there (e.g., please figure if you fit or not; do not just apply because of the high ranking) … the Chicago the info session was essentially a student panel of the tour guides who were terrific.</p>
<p>I really like info sessions that clearly state what distinguishes the school from its peers. It’s also kind of nice when an admissions officer gives you a precise perspective on how they’re looking at each app. I thought Swarthmore, Williams, and Bowdoin all did a really good job at that, and I walked away liking each school. Middlebury did a good job with that as well, although in that case it served to indicate that it wasn’t as much of a fit for me.</p>
<p>I did Williams and Amherst in one day, which I regret, actually, because we couldn’t do an Amherst info session. We did both the tour and info session at Williams, and the admissions officer there was amazing. Then we went to Amherst, did that tour with one guide and a group of around 40, and found nothing particularly distinctive about the school. I’ve found tours to be increasingly useless since they typically tell you the same things (“We have wireless EVERYWHERE on campus,” “If you need a book that isn’t in our library, we can get it for you,” etc.).</p>
<p>I’d say the preppiness of the student body is probably downplayed at most elite schools. Competitiveness is probably downplayed a lot too. I haven’t gone to many stereotypically cut-throat schools, but still. My tour guide at Bowdoin tried to discredit a stereotype that a lot of people wear sweatpants to class, but I was thinking that I’d prefer a school like that.</p>
<p>I like freshmen as tour guides. If a student is doing or helping with the info session, then I prefer a senior.</p>
<p>
My new favorite line of the above type: On a tour at a LAC, the tour guide kept talking about how intense the work was, how much time they spent in the library, how many hours a day most people spent studying, etc. I finally asked him “what do you do for fun?” His answer was “We have 132 different clubs; if there’s a club you want and we don’t have it, you can start one!” I think I’ve heard that line at just about every college.</p>
<p>Emmybet, I like your quick summary of the “types” of information sessions. You should also add the other side: the people (parents and students) who listen to them. As I said in my earlier post, I don’t truthfully say if colleges are or are not as advertised. But I do know we interpretted the information differently. To my thinking, it’s not just what they say in an information session or on a tour or in some brochure. It’s also what you want to hear.</p>
<p>starbright, going along with some ideas to get the “real” information from students (post #20), our standard question we always asked our tour guide was, “what other schools did you apply to and why did you choose this one?” Tells you a lot about what the comparable schools are and what was important in their decision.</p>
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</p>
<p>This would be a fun thread for someone to start. What does almost every college claim to offer? I feel like their marketing machines are working off of the same play book, often saying the same thing as every other college. Not unlike ads for jobs (what company these days isn’t providing a ‘dynamic and challenging environment’?). But seriously, if we cut out all the tour and brochure overlap, what are truly unique features about colleges that every second one doesn’t also claim to offer?</p>
<p>"Personally, I’ve found info sessions to be almost useless and a waste of time … " - Typically they are an hour or less. Well worth the risk of wasted time in my opinion. Our experience visiting a large variety of colleges was that portion of the sessions covered info we knew already, but they were still worth attending. Ditto for the tours. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, there is still lots of info you won’t learn via info session or tour. CC is one way to add viewpoints. Another one (not always possible) is to meet with a current student you know via hs or another method. Our best insight was from a a student listed on website for corporate scholarship with my company.</p>