@dfbdfb " It’s worth remembering that not everyone—and, in some regions, not just not everyone, but very few—matches that."
I understand that. I grew up in a small town. This year, my high school did not have a single student attending a school in the top 150 on US news (either Universities or LAC’s).
I know that in areas like that the frequency of students with an ACT scores over 30 is very low, but a student like that may come through occasionally. In many cases, I think those students have no idea about the broader possibilities it creates, assuming they have a solid gpa to with it.
There’s a difference between not knowing (most kids with a 32+ ACT definitely do know) and not caring.
Really, think of it as the eternal “Which is better for a high-stats kid, a state flagship or an Ivy?” debate on CC, except that there’s no real question in most minds that it’s the state flagship. (Out-of-state state flagships, yes, but still.)
ETA: That’s overstated, of course—but in those rare cases where someone really, really wants the Ivy-like thing, you’re much more likely to see Stanford as the goal, and if someone wants the NESCAC-like thing, you’re much (much!) more likely to see Reed as the goal.
Almost 40% of Northwestern students are in specialty schools - communications (e.g. drama, film, etc), journalism, education, and music while most elite MBA students major in liberal arts, STEM, or business. It’s not Northwestern’s fault to be one of the very few elite schools that offer those fields to aspiring performing artists, teachers, and musicians.
People on this board tend to overanalyze and jump into conclusion with too little.
I get what you all are saying, but I’m a Midwestern guy. It’s been my dream to end up in either Boston or NY for pretty much my whole teenage life. I just worry that going to NU will keep me in the Midwest. Thoughts?
@IWannaHelp: I already mentioned Northwestern is a very top university. How could be it the fault of Northwestern? The OP was asking, for an MBA, like Harvard (I assume that the OP would be happy with Wharton, Tuck, Yale, Columbia as well), whether Williams or Northwestern will provide better chance. I tried to provide some numbers here. That is it. By the way, proportionally, I do not think MBA will take into less students from specialty schools. The few business schools that I have served have been accepting many of them.
@prof2dad, I think you missed @IWannaHelp’s point, which is that few music and drama majors pursue MBA’s.
So, as an example, does Wharton fill 40% of its class with people with specialty majors? If that percentage is less, then NU would have a lesser proportional representation at Wharton even if NU grads get in to Wharton at the same rate as Williams grads.
Numbers always need to be interpreted in context.
To the OP: NU grads end up everywhere. I believe the NYC metro area has the 2nd-largest number of Northwestern alums (outside of Chicagoland).
For Williams, the elite location sequence is like: Tuck, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, then Wharton.
For Northwestern, the elite location sequence is like: Northwestern/Booth, then Stanford (I apologize if I miss a few in between).
For Williams and Northwestern, both Wharton and Stanford are distant. This is the reason why I choose Wharton and Stanford as examples.
Since you mentioned Booth’s student profile, this comparison will be incomplete without mentioning the student profile of Tuck. At Tuck, according to Poets and Quants, Williams is 1.9%. Northwestern is not on the top list of 23 feeder schools (<1.2%). If one is willing to adjust for the size differential of 1 to about 4, the Williams ratio is >7%.
Now back to “Stanford’s location definitely doesn’t favor Northwestern,” it is well known that Stanford has a particularly high reputation in the West and also Midwest. The West is like Stanford’s home, and the Midwest is like Stanford’s backyard. You may notice that Stanford recently announced that it is going to offer free MBA education to those from the Midwest and also are willing to work in the Midwest for at least a few years after the MBA. If these are not big favors, I do not what would be.
@prof2dad:
“You may noticed that Stanford recently announced that it is going to offer free MBA education to those from the Midwest and also are willing to work in the Midwest for at least a few years after the MBA.”
They are doing this because they aren’t getting enough applicants from the Midwest.
“it is well known that Stanford has a particularly high reputation in the West and also Midwest.”
Everywhere, in fact.
“For Williams and Northwestern, both Wharton and Stanford are distance.”
The distance from Williamstown to Philly is 260 miles. The distance from Evanston to Palo Alto is 2166 miles.
One is distant. The other is not.
“The West is like Stanford’s home, and the Midwest is like Stanford’s backyard.”
I’m sorry, but that is an extremely ignorant and incorrect statement. Have you ever even left the East Coast or been in the Midwest? I’ve lived in both the Midwest and West Coast (as well as the East Coast) and nobody in either the Midwest or West Coast would think that the Midwest is the backyard of a West Coast school.
@PurpleTitan: “few music and drama majors pursue MBA’s.”
I do not know to what extend drama majors pursue an MBA. I did see many applications of music majors pursuing an MBA. For reporting purpose, we usually lump those speciality school majors that are humanities-nature into liberal arts category. That is actually the way many universities structure their arts and science college.
@Boothie007 That has not been my experience both recruiting for and working in a hedge fund.
Also it is definitely not true from my experience that more people know Duke than Penn, never once have I heard this from anyone both within the industry, in other industries and also average people. Quite the opposite is true. Penn benefits from the Ivy league brand and stronger grad schools and research output that adds to prestige. Outside the US very few people have actually heard of Duke but people do know what the Ivy league is.
For business recruiting the general perception I have experienced is HYPSM and Penn Wharton then the rest of Penn, then the rest of the top schools. Also Wharton and the rest of Penn are looked a bit differently but nowadays not very, this is rather exaggerated. For buy-side it is definitely more pronounced but still depends on the firm.
Wharton-non Wharton at Penn as an undergrad makes an actual difference only if you want to break into top PE (KKR, TPG, Warburg, Carlyle etc) from undergrad. These places come only at Penn and at Harvard too for undergrads and usually do not take more than a couple of the very tippy top Wharton or dual degree students each year. It is very rare for a non-Wharton student to get these as an undergrad but it has happened and at least a non-wharton student at Penn has a higher chance than a student elsewhere( -Harvard) because the firm actually comes to Penn and recruiting opportunities are open to everyone. These firms they do not really bother looking at Yale, Princeton let alone Columbia or Duke or Cornell for undergrad.
However getting a PE job straight out of ugrad is impossible and thus not a concern for the vast majority of students. I have quite a few friends from Penn who were not at Wharton and managed to go straight out of ugrad to buy-side (but not the very top PE places). As for Ibanking jobs no one is gonna give it to you just because you are a Wharton student if there is a more qualified Engineering or Econ (PENN CAS) student. Recruiters do like diversity, that is why they don’t recruit just at undergrad business schools.
Also at least from my experience Columbia does not have a great reputation in many places on the street. seen as too liberal and hippie. But that again varies from firm to firm.
That has been my perception but I understand perceptions and experiences vary.
“The West is like Stanford’s home, and the Midwest is like Stanford’s backyard.”
“I’m sorry, but that is an extremely ignorant and incorrect statement. Have you ever even left the East Coast or been in the Midwest? I’ve lived in both the Midwest and West Coast (as well as the East Coast) and nobody in either the Midwest or West Coast would think that the Midwest is the backyard of a West Coast school.”
@PurpleTitan: Take it easy. If you read it more carefully, you should be able to tell that I am simply saying Stanford MBA (of course relative to other elite MBAs) takes into “far more” students from the West and “more” students from the Midwest. This has always been the case during my professional career. Now Stanford wants to do even more for the Midwest: free MBA education. If Stanford has not done any special consideration for the Midwest, can one reasonably expect the “first” special treatment is free MBA education, such a big favor?
If you really want to know where I have lived before: I earned my MBA in Midwest (2 years). I got my PhD in the South (4 years). My first and second teaching Jobs are in the West (7 years). Now I live and teach in the Northeast (8 years).
The Lay Prestige opinion will always be the usual suspects. But @snarlatron Ohio State!! That’s going to far even in jest. Now if someone mentioned University Of Michigan, a stretch but within the realm of possibility.
@Penn95: Your experience largely reflects the reality. Fresh out of college and directly into private equity does not happen often. As you indicated, Harvard and Wharton, at the top of the game, has been able to send a few kids directly into PE.
Actually, Yale is also able to do so. As you may know, Blackstone has recently became the largest PE in the industry. Its founder just gave >100 million to Yale. So Blackstone hires a few kids from Yale should not be a surprise. Another possible reason (but I am not sure about this and I would appreciate if you can shield some light) is that the ranking of Yale MBA has risen substantially in recent years and its size also grew a lot. Can it be that Yale has finally reach critical mass so that Yale’s placement opportunity on Wall Street is now close to on par with Harvard and Wharton?
My dad’s wife (and forever rural central Illinois resident) told me they have a very prestigious university in the next big town called Knox College. To quote a classic thread, we just smile and nod.
“The reason that I brought out Rhodes Scholarships was that if my memory serves me correct I read a U Michigan campus newspaper long time ago about how long U Michigan had not landed a scholarship and in that article the author attributed part of the reason to be that persistent winners, like Harvard and Yale, are more prestigious than U Michigan.”
prof2dad, surprisingly, I have not read that article, but I do know a wee bit about Michigan, and that such an article was published by the Daily or the Review would not surprise me. However, I do not think prestige has much to do with Rhodes success. Other equally prestigious universities, like Cal, Columbia, Cornell, Northwestern and Penn have also not done well in recent years.
