<p>I was just wondering how yall, personally, would rank the schools on the USNWR. Until recently rankings were the #1 thing I was looking at when deciding what schools I wanted to apply to (stupid I know, I think its because of my background). I only found out about LAC recently, and am wondering why they aren't ranked with national universities, even though some like Williams have been called "the ivies of LAC". What exactly is the difference between them?</p>
<p>Also, how do yall go about searching for colleges? The whole process is overwhelming me :P</p>
<p>If you are talking specifically about the USNR rankings, here are there descriptions:</p>
<p>National Universities -Schools in the National Universities category, such as Yale and UCLA, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master’s, and doctoral degrees. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research</p>
<p>National LAC -Among the liberal arts colleges are schools like Oberlin and Harvey Mudd, which emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study.</p>
<p>Regional Universities -Regional Universities offer a full range of undergrad programs and some master’s programs but few doctoral programs</p>
<p>Regional Colleges - These colleges focus on undergraduate education but grant fewer than half their degrees in liberal arts disciplines.</p>
<p>National Universities >> National LACs>>>>>>>Regional Universities and Masters Universities>>>>>>>>Regional Universities>>>>community colleges</p>
<p>There are exceptions to the rule, obviously. The top 10 National LACs are going to be better than the National Universities in the 50-100 slots, e.g.</p>
<p>LACs offer a different kind of educational experience from the large public universities and mid-sized private universities. They are undergraduate focused (no grad schools, no grad students, no TAs teaching). They tend to be small (under 2,400). The faculty are usually evaluated and offered tenure, first and foremost, on their teaching - with research being second or even third place. Because of the smaller size, there are fewer majors and fewer classes offered each semester. If you want to do research, the variety is often more limited and less likely to be ‘cutting edge.’ Class sizes tend to be smaller - you won’t find a lot of 300 person lectures even in the intro classes. They do not usually offer professional training (engineering, business, nursing) although there are certainly exceptions (like Harvey Mudd for engineering). Because they are small, they tend to have distinctive cultures - so your personal fit matters. Many are as selective as the top private universities in the country (like Williams).</p>
<p>They are not better or worse than universities, although they do tend to be less well known outside of academia because they don’t have grad schools. Whether LACs are a good option for you really depends on the kind of experience you want for the next four years. I have a kid at a LAC and another at a private university-each is in the right place for them.</p>
<p>Not sure what’s best for you? Visit a LAC close to where you live. Sit in on classes. Go to your state school and sit in on classes there. If there’s a private nearby, check it out too. It will help you figure out what feels right.</p>
<p>Regarding research, whether it’s a Big U or an LAC, those that require a research thesis of all seniors will likely increase your chances of being admitted to an advanced degree grad school (if you want that); you can’t decide not to do it (as when it’s optional). Grad schools can then see that you already know how to do research, and its quality.</p>
<p>Regional Universities are less research-oriented and only offer a few PhD programs or no PhD programs.</p>
<p>example…The Cal States in Calif are “regional universities”.</p>
<p>There are exceptions to the rule, obviously. The top 10 National LACs are going to be better than the National Universities in the 50-100 slots, e.g.</p>
<p>Not necessarily. The top 10 LACs aren’t even going to offer all the majors that those Nat’l Univ will. Many/most LACs don’t have engineering or business majors.</p>
<p>*
LACs offer a different kind of educational experience from the large public universities and mid-sized private universities. They are undergraduate focused (no grad schools, no grad students, no TAs teaching). *</p>
<p>We can’t generalize like that. There are national universities that don’t let TA’s teach and are “undergrad focused.”</p>
<p>And dont’t think that a university>>Lac just because it is better known by the general public. Some students choose LACs over well-known universities even when accepted to both. I’ve heard of some who have chosen Williams over Harvard, for instance. To say that “The top 10 National LACs are going to be better than the National Universities in the 50-100 slots, e.g.” is more than a little… uninformed? In my opinion.</p>
<p>Being from a country where LACs are non-existent, I really researched to subject when my S told me he wanted to go to Williams over Cornell and Northwestern, simply because I wasn’t going to spend so much money on something I didn’t know anything about. </p>
<p>There have been many threads on CC about this subject. You can search the site for yourself, but here is one:</p>
<p>Both “National Universities” and “National Liberal Arts Colleges” draw students from all over the country and to some extent from all over the world. This geographic diversity is one of the distinctive features of selective private schools. Even the most highly ranked public universities draw about 80% or more of their students from in state. At the most selective private schools (including many of the top 50 LACs), this percentage is approximately reversed:
~ 95% OOS at Middlebury
~ 90% OOS at Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Reed
~ 80% OOS at Kenyon
~ 75% OOS at Colorado College, Pomona
~ 60% OOS at Whitman
~ 55% OOS at Occidental</p>
<p>Thank you williamsdad, I will. How does your son like it? That’s a school I’m looking at. I visited Furman, which is a LAC, and I really liked it, but I haven’t visited my state schools, so I can’t really compare. Also, thanks for all the informative answers, they really helped.</p>
<p>My S loves it, Hoping411. He went to a summer course in Northwestern the summer before applying to Williams, and we were very disappointed with the teaching he received. Apparently one professor was giving a higher level course than he was supposed to be giving, and didn’t even know it. My S had to be asking all questions from a TA because he felt the professors were unapproachable. He didn’t like the food, and the dorms were not very nice (those I saw for myself.)
My thinking was: I sent my son there to learn, and spent about $13,000 for 9 weeks. What do I care if the professor is famous in his field if he isn’t a good teacher, or if he feels that teaching is beneath him? I am paying a LOT of money for him to teach my son. He is giving an introductory course, so he’s bored out of his skull, and is waay too important to be questioned by a mere high school student. </p>
<p>Everything is better at Williams, especially the teaching. The classes are smaller, and there is a lot of interaction. The professors are excellent, and their priority is teaching. They conduct research as well, but teaching comes first. My S also does research, and he really does it himself; he doesn’t just keep the lab clean for the real researchers, and call it “research experience.” He works his tail off most of the time, but he is content, and so am I, when he answers my phone calls.</p>
<p>I think it’s odd that when colleges are ranked, only 40% of the consideration is for academics. </p>
<p>I would think that most people would find that shocking/odd since the natural assumption would be that schools that are ranked higher would have be stronger academically than those below them, but that may not always be the case.</p>
<p>Hoping: LACs are generally small, undergraduate-focused colleges. Many have no graduate students or graduate programs at all, and their academic offerings are mostly in the liberal arts (things like English Language and Lit., Foreign Lang., Social and Physical Sciences, Math, Fine and Performing Arts, etc.). Some schools have no programs beyond these kinds of things.
National Universities have significant graduate programs through the PhD and the best ones are nationally and internationally recognized for their research activity. Often what is important to undergraduates such as yourself is that these schools offer not just Liberal Arts but a more comprehensive range of programs- engineering, business, and architecture, for example, as well as other pre-professional majors.<br>
The important thing is not to worry too much about trying to put these two kinds of schools on the same ratings scheme, or to try to compare a specific U with a specific LAC on a “rating” basis- they don’t compare that well, they tend to have very different qualities, and it is really the kind of environment you like that counts. Both types of schools attract their share of the very best and brightest students- it is a personal choice. One thing I will say, though, is that a National U may be a better bet if you don’t know what you want to study, since whatever you decide later will be available to you.</p>
<p>Thanks williamsdad and weldon. I was considereing Northwestern, but I don’t think I will now, and I was already leaning more towards Williams than Amherst so thanks for that! I know I want to study PoliSci/IR, so I’m guessing if I’m really big into research, I would go to a National U? Also, a lot of schools don’t offer a specific IR major, just PoliSci, would that make a difference since IR is under PoliSci? One last thing, would a National U or LAC have better study abroad programs, because that is really important to me, I know Williams has a good one.</p>
<p>Maybe because college is more than just academics? I mean academics are obviously a huge part, but there is also the overall experience, like student interactions and opportunities, and the quality of teaching. But thanks for the info, it makes me look at college in a whole new way :)</p>