College Selection: A list of things that trouble and irritate me

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Great advice, Warbler. I’ll disagree just a little bit on the major or field as we use that as a major factor when selecting schools, but the rest I agree with 100% - esp the fit and finances.</p>

<p>Out of my experience at school (public high school), the kids who end up NOT happy with their college experience are those who did not select properly for fit (location, size, Greek, academic caliber - but not 20 - 30 spots on USNWR) and those who signed up for way too much debt (or their parents did).</p>

22

<p>Amen to all of it!
A big part of the problem is that there is so little knowledge imparted to students and their parents about the whole process - selection, fit, visits, applications, FINANCES etc. from the schools systems. I blame them because I don’t know who else should be responsible for *educating *families about college. Everyone starts out completely clueless, even parents who went to college because the whole ballgame has changed so much since they went!
And another thing is our society’s need for instant gratification and our laziness. Why spend hours reading books like the Fiske Guide etc., gathering lists from good college search engines, and then following up with more reading on college websites when you can just ask a question on the Internet and have the answers magically appear?
This thread reminds me of why, at least once a week, I say to myself -“No more CC! not a good use of my time!”. But here I am…
Thanks so much for taking the time to do all the venting I never did but wanted to do :)</p>

23

<p>

</p>

<p>Especially since the current parents generation probably went to college under the following conditions:</p>

<ul>
<li>Admissions selectivity was much lower for nearly all universities.</li>
<li>Costs were much lower (after adjusting for inflation), so a much larger percentage of universities could be attended by someone “working his/her way through college”.</li>
</ul>

24

<p>as fairly recent CCer I have to agree almost entirely with warblersrule’s post. When I first happened on here, I was shaking my head thinking “REALLY, REALLY??” as the advice and absolutes were just so far from my experience with my kids, their friends and my many nieces and nephews’ college searches and experiences IN college.</p>

<p>I’m glad to see it’s not just me. I would add, though, that I’ve found this site REALLY disappointing when it comes to students and families of color. Every couple of weeks “expert” information is doled out on how black students aren’t as bright and don’t deserve to be in certain “prestige” schools. There’s little to no information about HBCU’s other than the usual comments about what bad schools they are. And so on.</p>

<p>So I mostly hang out on the Cafe, which has some good debates, and do the work I need to do to get my youngest ready for and into college on my own. I’ve found very little of use on any of the other forums and offer little to the “What should I do?” threads on any of them.</p>

25

<p>One other thing that seems annoying are the posters (both parents and students) who appear panicky about finances, but do not seem to be willing to try net price calculators or actually assess the hard numbers of their household finances to determine what colleges may or may not be affordable.</p>

26

<p>

</p>

<p>Could that be because the typical demographic of this forum (white, “middle class but won’t get any financial aid” i.e. top 5% income) sees HB schools as somehow not fitting the model of what they see a desirable school as? Or that the idea of attending a school where one is a member of a minority group when one has grown up as a member the majority group is somehow bothersome, even if the school matches all other criteria, including net price?</p>

27

<p>Yes, I’m sure that’s a part of it, ucb. Interestingly, at an HBCU forum the other day, the speaker talked about the increase in OTHER minority students (mostly Hispanics) at many of the schools, as they realize that they offer exactly what they’re looking for. And of course, there are some white students-I want to say that it was Hampton that had a white valedictorian a few years ago.</p>

<p>I wish this board itself was more diverse, though. Would be nice to see at least some folks with my family’s interests.</p>

28

<p>This is such a great post, I’m bumping it as it deserves to be read by each new class of students/families coming to CC for advice. Honestly, it should be pinned at the top. Not sure why it isn’t!</p>

<p>(h/t Michelle Kretzschmar of DIY College Rankings!)</p>

29

<p>Completely agree with points 1,2, and 5.</p>

30

<p>a good post, warbler. as for #5, would it be helpful if posters admitted whether or not they are associated in any way with the schools referred to in their post? I started doing this at one point and then slacked off. I too tire of seeing posters recommend college x without saying why college x fits this particular OP and on what their opinion is based.</p>

31

<p>Though this is an old post, I’m going to disagree with several point made by Warbersrule.

I don’t see what’s wrong with recommending colleges that you’ve had a good experience with. Sure there are posters who overdo it, but if the school seems to fit the applicant’s desires, so what? I frequently recommend Emory as well as use it as a point of comparison. I do so because I have more than just a superficial familiarity with the school, believe that it provides a good education in most fields of study, and provides a richer environment than many other institutions I’m familiar with. </p>

<p>

This reads as though being an extremely rigorous school and being one where students have opportunities to let loose are almost mutually exclusive. What’s wrong with a current student at one of the schools known for their rigor (Cal Tech, Reed, and MIT to name a few) telling a prospective student that while they work hard, probably far harder than most students, they still have some down time and they often use it to party, to hang out with friends, or do any number of things? </p>

<p>

In some cases, one option is clearly the better choice by virtually all objective and subjective measures. I’m not referring to a case where a student is choosing between Dartmouth and Emory, but perhaps Dartmouth and Pacific Union College when costs are essentially equal (though I’ve never seen this comparison on the site, I’ve seen others that are pretty similar in terms of academic disparity).</p>

<p>

What’s wrong with thinking that some colleges are crap? I’ve told students not to apply to an evangelical university (a school which I have second hand experience with) because I think it infantalizes students, doesn’t allow for critical thinking, and has a low standard of education.</p>

<p>

Students’ interests change between October and March. What might have sounded initially extremely appealing might sound a lot less so after a student visits schools, talks to older friends, takes a class which they find interesting enough to possibly major in, or does any number of things that might sway their opinions. </p>

32

<p>I’m not referring to a case where a student is choosing between Dartmouth and Emory, but perhaps Dartmouth and Pacific Union College when costs are essentially equal (though I’ve never seen this comparison on the site, I’ve seen others that are pretty similar in terms of academic disparity).</p>

<p>I personally have rarely seen a comparison like this - it’s usually a student comparing a top 20-30 college with a college that’s maybe in the top 50-100 - still very good, still usually well-known, but not as prestigious, and there’s usually a cost differential. But why would anyone tell a student not to bother visiting? Even if a student is comparing Dartmouth and Pacific Union, perhaps the student will absolutely hate the atmosphere at Dartmouth and fall in love with PUC. Prestige is not everything.</p>

<p>* What’s wrong with thinking that some colleges are crap?*</p>

<p>Again, normally these debates aren’t over clearly crappy colleges with dubious educational policies and accreditation. They’re people saying absurd things like Mount Holyoke College is crap. I’ve even seen people denigrate Tufts and Tulane in the past, although in recent years/months those universities have gotten a better rap around here. And in some cases it’s because they had a negative experience with the college and are simply extrapolating it everywhere else.</p>

<p>Personally I agree 100% with warblersrule’s post and these were all things I have been thinking about in the past months, too - it’s gotten even more absurd lately. One of my biggest pet peeves is with the major thing (point #3). Yes, I accept that there may be caveats for engineering and nursing and some more obscure majors like advertising or public relations, but 1) in my experience most of these students are comparing widely available liberal arts majors like anthropology or history OR they are comparing two schools that both have the major they want.</p>

<p>Also 2) you rarely need to major in something very specific to do what you really want. For example, let’s say a student wants to major in aerospace engineering but can’t find a school that really has what they want and that major - I would recommend a school that maybe has mechanical engineering, which is much more prevalent across campuses. Many mechanical engineers do aerospace for grad school. For that chemical engineering hopeful referenced above, one could do a mech E major with a chem minor. Even for that potential advertising or PR major - few people working in those fields have a major in that, and there are plenty of more popular majors to suggest (communications, psychology, sociology). In fact, a college with better connections to the industry that may fund summer internships or be located in a hotspot for that kind of industry may be better than another university that has the major but not the connections. (Obviously, you need to major in nursing to be a nurse.)</p>

<p>I also see people saying that certain colleges don’t have strong enough departments in X field, usually math, and that irritates me. It’s usually about LACs (TOP LACs! Like Pomona or Swarthmore!) that have smaller math offerings and no graduate classes. While I agree that a sufficiently advanced student may want to have access to grad classes, we’re talking about perhaps 1% of math majors. Even students who have finished multivariable calculus (cal III) by the time they come to college only need to replace 3 math courses in the sequence, and most college math departments have at least twice as many classes as a student can take in the major. But how many math majors come to college having already taken multivariable calculus? Most math majors I know, even at my prestigious university, begin with cal II or perhaps cal III if they took AP Cal BC in high school. They will be just fine.</p>

<p>But the biggest point of contention is that we are assuming that 18-year-olds know what they want to do for the rest of college before they even step foot and take a class. And some of them do, but it’s a small proportion. I personally changed my major twice before I even stepped on campus - my high school yearbook says I want to be a biology pre-med major at my campus. LOL!</p>

33

<p>

</p>

<p>The main sensible reason would be if the college is completely out of reach or unsuitable (e.g. too expensive on need-based financial aid, and no large enough merit scholarships, or obviously far too selective for the student, or has poor academic offerings in the student’s main interests).</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>An undecided student may actually find the constraint about majors to be more of a constraint than one who is very likely to go into a specific major, or a major in a small group of related majors. The undecided student needs to find schools which are decent in all of the possible majors that s/he may want to do, in order to avoid having to transfer away from a four year school after deciding. (And, although it may be heresy to many on these forums, starting at a community college may actually be an advantage for the undecided student, since s/he can sample the introductory courses in many subjects without being “on the clock” to declare a major or worrying as much about needing extra semesters to graduation – extra semesters at the community college are typically much less expensive than at a four year school. Yes, starting at a community college necessitates transfer to finish a bachelor’s degree, but that is known beforehand, while transferring from a four year school can be a let-down in that the student typically expects to graduate from the four year school.)</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>I think the point the OP was making here was that, too often, posters are failing to disclose their affiliations with these schools. If you have some type of specific knowledge (as an alumnus, parent, accepted student, rejected student, etc.), it’s always helpful to disclose that up front. Acknowledging bias is a good thing, and it adds a lot more credibility to a post when it’s made clear IMHO.</p>

35

<p>I more meant why would you tell a student who had the resources and time to visit, and wanted to do so to make a decision between two colleges, not to bother visiting because one school is “objectively” better than the other.</p>

<p>I also challenge that assumption about the majors a bit. I am a very indecisive person, and I personally chose an LAC because I did not want to be overwhelmed with a lot of majors to choose from. As has been stated before, most good solid colleges will have a good solid department in the most common liberal arts major, so unless a student really has a burning desire to do some kind of odd pre-professional major I think that should be a less important concern.</p>

<p>Besides, I think students way overestimate the important of any specific major to their eventual career anyway - like let’s say a student wanted to do journalism but ended up doing an English major with a writing minor at a smaller colleges that didn’t have journalism; that’s very very unlikely to prevent them from being a journalist. Related majors will usually get you where you want to go, and appropriate internship experience is usually far more important anyway. I know a philosophy major who’s managing a laundry business right now and a biology major who went into consulting.</p>

<p>I agree with you about community colleges, though; they should get more attention, especially because you can save a lot of money!</p>