College Selection - Input Please!

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>My D and I are attempting to chisel away at the long list of BFA MT schools that merit review. I have read many of the threads on this forum and have learned a tremendous amount. I will also venture to say I am a tad overwhelmed and bleary eyed! Knowing that there are folks out there with a wealth of knowledge on these programs I would love to have some input. </p>

<p>My D is a Senior in High School with a GPA >3.5 (unweighted) and a current SAT in the 1800’s. She attended a precollege MT program this past summer, truly loves MT (all components) and wants to pursue a BFA. After much angst her criteria for a program includes the following –</p>

<p>A school with a campus experience (it can be a smaller school but it needs to have a community atmosphere, with several of the usual campus benefits – eateries, gym, school spirit (football), camaraderie – she is very outgoing, loves to socialize and enjoys meeting others).<br>
A school in a city or relatively close to a city with a strong cultural arts presence and heavy community support.
A school where dance instruction is in the curriculum.
A school without a cut policy (both she and I want to be certain that once she is in she won’t have to sweat being cut from the program).<br>
We are becoming convinced that she should go to a school with a senior showcase – but this is not a strict requirement.
A school with merit or audition based scholarships would be nice.</p>

<p>Though she is somewhat academically inclined this is not a requirement in a school.</p>

<p>We’d also like a few safety schools like a couple of BA schools with a heavy emphasis in MT (all 3 components)..</p>

<p>The list of schools we are currently researching is – University of Miami, FSU, Syracuse, CMU, CCM, Penn State, U of Oklahoma, Boston Conservatory, UC Irvine, USC, Michigan, Emerson, Ithica, Temple, Norte Dame de Namur, Seton Hill. </p>

<p>So give me your input – are we on the right track, should we be considering some other schools, deleting some we are researching, etc. Your insight(s) will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!</p>

2

<p>“We’d also like a few safety schools like a couple of BA schools with a heavy emphasis in MT (all 3 components)”</p>

<p>Remember that “BA” is not synonymous with “safety” Only a program that does not require an audition AND is an academic (and financial) safety is a true safety school. I think all of the schools you mention require an audition to enter the MT program. Although, from what I understand students do not audition for admission to BFA in MT at UC-Irvine until end of freshman/ sophomore year.</p>

<p>If your D wants a school with football and other college campus-y experiences Boston Conservatory may not fit that bill… nor am I sure about Emerson. Although Boston is a great college “town.”</p>

<p>In terms of “no cuts” – does she mean that she will be able to complete the program as a BFA MT student? Or would she be okay with a school where there is a mid-point evaluation were students could be moved into a BA or BS track with no upper level Acting or MT Performance courses?</p>

<p>I teach at James Madison University which is an auditioned BA program at a large university. Many of the students who audition for us have similar criteria to your D… although we are not in a big city… about 2-hours away from DC. Students who audition for us and are looking for the kinds of program your D is looking for often have some of the following schools on their lists – Syracuse, Michigan, Penn State, Elon, Temple, Ithaca, Muhlenberg, American, Montclair, NYU, ECU , Coastal Carolina, and Seton Hill on their lists… (at least the ones that share with us some of the schools on the rest of their list :)). Some of the ones listed that you do not already have on your list may be worth looking at as well. </p>

<p>Good LUCK! :)</p>

3

<p>KatMT,
Thanks for the response. My daughter does not want to audition/compete for upper level
MT instruction, so we don’t want a school where this happens. I did not know UC Irvine had an audition process, so that is a bummer. It appears that most California schools do this, so we’ll probably take them off our list - we are westerners, hence we were interested. We’ll also add to the list some of the new schools you mentioned - including James Madison.
I’ll check Big List again for a non-audition safety school - anyone attending one that they think merits a good look?</p>

4

<p>If you daughter wants to be near a big city I am not sure that Ithaca or Penn State would qualify -? Hope someone else will chime in about those two. </p>

<p>Your daughter might want to check out Otterbein - it meets all the criteria on your list - fun campus experience, near a big city (Columbus), dance as part of the curriculum (can get minor in dance as an MT), no cut policy, a senior showcase and generous merit and talent scholarships.</p>

5

<p>Neither Penn. State nor Ithaca is really near a city. I went to grad school at Penn State, and the college town is a very nice one, with a lot going on… Football is HUGE! Ithaca is another nice college town with both Ithaca and Cornell there. There are also a few very well respected professional theatres in town. Another program near a big city is Wagner. They have a very strong dance componant to the program from what I understand. It is an auditioned BA. There are not too many non-auditioned MT programs out there. Dusquane is one I believe, Muhlenburg is a theatre program where students can take dance and voice as well. There is no audition, but depending on academic stats it may or may not be a “safety.”</p>

6

<p>PS. She may want to look at UCLA too. There are some parents of UCLA kids who post here pretty regularly.</p>

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<p>Crzybear…I sent you a PM about Oklahoma. Awesome…awesome!</p>

8

<p>Syracuse meets a lot of your specifications, but it also is not a BIG city. However, my D is a senior MT student there, and she has been far too busy to notice the lack of a big city atmosphere. Also, you should be aware that although Syracuse does not have a “cut” system, they do have a sophomore evaluation to determine if students will continue in the program. Sometimes students are asked to re-take courses if the faculty feels they are not meeting expectations. Occasionally students will be asked to transfer to a BS program, but this happens infrequently. In my D’s class, only one student was dropped from the BFA track (and quite frankly, there were very good reasons in this case.) Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about Syracuse – my D has been very happy there, and we have seen a huge improvement in her skills.</p>

9

<p>CMU definitely meets your criteria. Based on my D’s first six weeks there, however, I will report that she has not been able to experience much of the whole campus experience. At the parent’s orientation we were told that the courseload is equivalent to taking a double major, and that seems to be the case. She is in class about double the time of her high school classmates who are pursuing more mainstream majors at other schools. I don’t know if this is typical of other BFA MT programs, but I assume it is. I bring this up just so you and your daughter know that these programs are intense, and the experience will not be the average. That being said, my D LOVES everything about what she’s doing and where she is.</p>

10

<p>I agree, Xatty. BFA programs tend to absorb all of your time and energy. My D has yet to attend a football or basketball game, even though they are huge events at Syracuse. She occasionally gets out to see a concert, but simply can’t fit most college events into her schedule – not only is her class schedule intense, but she has been lucky enough to be cast frequently, and her evenings AND weekends are tied up with rehearsals.</p>

11

<p>An Acting BFA, as opposed to an MT BFA, is not necessarily so extremely intense, time wise…provided that the student is in a program where they are not cast in plays until the second or third year.</p>

<p>My son is a freshman Acting student at Boston University, and so far he has found time to enjoy aspects of campus life and the offerings of the Boston area. He was very fortunate in finding a work-study job where he can pretty much set his own hours.</p>

<p>(Sorry if this is a little off topic…however, there are plenty of students with a strong MT interest who choose Acting BFAs.)</p>

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<p>Crzybear, since you are looking in the Philadelphia area, among others, you may want to look at UArts. While it does not have a traditional campus or sports teams, it fits all of your other criteria. Even in the absence of a discrete campus, students regularly socialize and there is a strong sense of “community” with all sorts of school events, a MT fraternity/sorority, dinner parties at student apartments and students getting together to take advantage of the myriad of restaurants, cafes, museums, shows and historical and cultural centers the city has to offer. There are 3 gyms/fitness clubs within a 5 minute walk from all the dorms with memberships as cheap as a couple hundred dollars a year. Given the core programmatic criteria you list, UArts is well worth checking out in more depth.</p>

13

<p>Thanks so much for all the input, it is so helpful. I’m adding new schools to the list and more questions/criteria to our college search list. </p>

<p>MichaelNKat - UArts is one school we just were unsure of. It is refreshing to hear there is a sense of “community” as that is what my D thrives on. We’ll do more research - thanks!</p>

<p>NJTheatreMOM, OnStage, xatty - I really appreciate the input on how demanding a BFA program is! So with respect to the time demands, would you say your MT student spends a considerable amount of time outside of class on studies (assigned homework - reading, papers, etc) or practice/rehearsals or both? I know my D would not be bothered by the practice/rehearsals (living/doing theatre) so sacrificing a game would be a non-issue. But if the type of work is mostly classroom style studies, she’d burnout. So input on how “required time” is spent outside of class would be greatly appreciated!
-crzybear</p>

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<p>Crzybear…attending a BFA program is nothing like going to college for a BA in terms of the time involved. Most weekdays are full of classes ALL day (unlike in a BA program where classes are only a few hours per day usually). If one is cast in a show, it often means rehearsals five nights per week until pretty late and one or two weekend days. Also, in many programs, there are crew assignments to fulfill. If you are not in a show, you likely have MORE time available. My kid was always involved in a show the whole time. She also was in an a capella group that rehearsed twice week. Then, there is prep for the training type classes…meaning monologues and scenes (if a scene, you have to schedule time with partners in your scene to rehearse outside of class) and song prep and so forth. Also, private voice lessons. I think Music Theory classes have homework (my D placed out and so I didn’t see what that entailed). Then, depending on the college, there are usually a couple of liberal arts type classes…my D had two per semester…one in the area of Theater Studies and one in a liberal arts subject. These courses had readings, assignments and papers to write and occasionally an exam. My D was often at school from 9 AM until 10 PM (or later) five days per week and had to do homework late at night or meet with scene partners or go to a practice room late at night or if there was a break ever during the day on one or two days during the week. On weekends, she had a lot of hours of rehearsal, catching up on homework and often a LITTLE time off (maybe one night off to go out or a couple hours here and there on a weekend to have free time or to take on paid jobs or go to the gym). But she had VERY LITTLE free time in her four years of a BFA program. Even if she had free time, she was attending shows of her peers to support them or seeing other theater. </p>

<p>I have had students who when selecting a BFA school, mention wanting football teams, Greek scene, activities in the city, etc. While I am not discounting these selection preferences, I don’t think some people understand what picking out a BFA program should entail first and foremost…picking out the PROGRAM itself. It is not like selecting a regular college where the criteria may be geographic location, setting, size of college, Greek scene, spectator sports and the like. For a BFA candidate, those elements should be secondary selection criteria AFTER finding the BFA program that is the best fit. If the student is lucky enough to have a choice in the spring, then they can get picky as to location, football scene, etc. But those things are not as important for a BFA selection process as they might be for a BA school. There are only a finite number of BFA in MT programs and you have to go where they are located, or the size of the universities, or settings, or football or no football, etc. And frankly, besides the selection aspect, once the student is IN a BFA program, there is very little time to attend sporting events. One should know this going into this process. IF those things DO matter to the student (and that is surely understandable), a BA program is likely a better match to their interests.</p>

15

<p>Also, if your D doesn’t want any homework of the academic variety, she should very very carefully examine the curriculum for every BFA program as there is a wide variety in that respect. There are less academic classes, for instance, at CMU, CCM, BOCO, than say at, NYU, Penn State, Elon, Emerson, etc. But MOST BFA programs that are within a university, have SOME liberal arts courses. The amt. differs between the programs. Do examine the course/graduation requirements for each BFA program. Remember, this is not like a two year training conservatory. Many BFA programs have some liberal arts, even if not a lot, and the students are earning a college degree, not just training.</p>

16

<p>soozievt,
“While I am not discounting these selection preferences, I don’t think some people understand what picking out a BFA program should entail first and foremost…picking out the PROGRAM itself. It is not like selecting a regular college where the criteria may be geographic location, setting, size of college, Greek scene, spectator sports and the like. For a BFA candidate, those elements should be secondary selection criteria AFTER finding the BFA program that is the best fit…” </p>

<p>I received some private messages emphasizing the same point(s). This is such valuable information and has set us on a new course - Thank you!!!</p>

<p>-crzybear</p>

17

<p>I agree that when looking at colleges for theatre or musical theatre training the program, and the atmosphere of the program is key. I also think that the context of the training should be taken into consideration. For example, when I was looking for college training programs when I was a high school student I knew I wanted a training program within the context of a larger university or college, and not a stand alone conservatory. I knew I wanted a medium to large sized campus, and diversity on campus was important to me. I knew I wanted to go to a school within a six hour drive from home. These were important selection criteria for me, and governed my list of schools. The environment around the training is an important part of the program. I ended up going to Syracuse. Like onstage’s
D I rarely went to football and basketball games, nor was I in the Greek system, but I was happy to be in an environment where these activities were occurring. I liked being in academic classes with students with diverse backgrounds, interests, perspectives, and majors. I believe these greater college experiences impacted my training positively. My word view was expanded as well as my theatrical training and knowledge of theatre history and literature This does not mean this is the best route for everyone. Each will have their own criteria, and should not discount the importance of those criteria in their college selection process.</p>

18

<p>Completely agree with Soozie and Kat’s posts. Regarding crzybear’s question in post #13, I would estimate that 2/3 of my D’s study time outside of class is spent rehearsing for classes, either individually or in a group. The other 1/3 would be research, writing papers, etc. It’s a very intense schedule; I believe the kids only survive because they are doing something they really love! And frankly, if you’re not passionately commited, theater is not the right profession for you.</p>

19

<p>Kat, I truly agree with what you wrote in 17. I should likely clarify what I meant. I DO think that each applicant should have an indvidualized personal list of selection criteria that differs from the next person. One person may want more liberal arts than another. One prefers a certain region of the country over another. One doesn’t care much about dance and one really does. And so on. </p>

<p>But I do think selecting a specialized degree program is different than selecting a college otherwise. Even in my own little family with two kids who have been through it and one who went for a BA (not for theater) and one who went for a BFA, there were differences to the type of process. The one who went for a BA, had hundreds of school from which to pick and could be pickier about things like location and size. The one who wanted a BFA had to go where BFAs in MT were offered which is not a LOT of places. And she also prefered to be near a city like her sister did, and if given OPTIONS in spring, would choose that but she did not rule out some BFA programs that were very good fit programs even if say, the location was not ideal (ie, Ithaca’s location was not as appealing to her as NYU’s but she was willing to apply to both since both had a good BFA program and that is where she was going to spend a huge chunk of her time). So, it is not like things like location, size, atmosphere on campus, diversity and so on don’t matter for BFA applicants but sometimes they become more secondary because choosing the program itself is such a BIG factor. For a BA applicant (any major, not simply theater), the availability of their major is a factor (was for my BA kid for sure) in selection but there is not a commitment or acceptance directly into that major and many even change majors in college. I guess what I was trying to say is that for a BFA candidate, the program is a primary consideration and then these other factors in selecting a college are surely ALSO a consideration, though sometimes may not be narrowed down to that aspect of selection until after one sees where they are accepted since it can be hard to find a LOT of BFA in MT programs that match up in every which way for someone and so they have to cast a wide net and get pickier about location and football games and the like once they see which BFA program takes them. But it is VERY important that the BFA program ITSELF is a good fit. </p>

<p>I’m saying this from the perspective of someone who works with a lot of kids and observes their college selection process and I have had a few students who when articulating reasons why certain BFA colleges are on their list, ONLY mention aspects of the university itself and NOTHING specific about why that BFA program! And I don’t think they fully understand that picking the program is a huge factor as a BFA takes up a HUGE chunk of one’s experience, in college, and is not like going to college for a major that is only 30% of the total experience. I’m finding that the students who seem to talk about liking X, Y, and Z about a university (and none of these things are about the theater program itself), are likely more suitable candidates for a BA degree program. If their top selection criteria involves things like the spectator sports (I have a student in mind who mentions this over any specifics about his theater program) is likely not that aware of what a BFA program entails and in any case, is not examining the differences from BFA program to BFA program and is focusing almost primarily on regular selection aspects of the college. In selecting a BFA school, one should be able to articulate reasons why one BFA program is more appealing than the next one. If one can only discuss the football team and frats and cool city the school is in about a BFA school…either they have not explored the BFA program much, or may truly be a more appropriate candidate for a BA. This is not the same as choosing specifics about a BFA program and ALSO liking that it is in a city or has school spirit, etc. But picking the program certainly should be one of the main factors in selection for a BFA candidate, more so than someone selecting a BA school might have. And there is the point that BFA students have very little free time to do football games and frats and so forth. I know my own kid did not at her program.</p>

<p>So, while I fully agree that each person’s selection criteria differs and SHOULD differ, I also believe that the process of selecting a school for a BFA in MT is not the same as selecting a regular college where the major is not the primary selection factor usually.</p>

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<p>I cross posted with onstage but could not agree more with her statement that if you are not lovin’ the idea of 7 days and nights a week devoted to theater related stuff, then not only is a BFA likely not the right path for you, but a life in theater is not either. I say this because ironically, I just hung up with my D, past midnight. She graduated a BFA in May. She is now a working actress. She just got home. She rehearsed all day for one show she is about to be in and all night for another. Just like her schedule in college. If she didn’t love it, she would not lead such a schedule. It is definitely NOT for all people.</p>