College ski teams

<p>I originally posted [url="<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=918885%22%5Dhere%5B/url"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=918885"]here[/url&lt;/a&gt;], but was advised to post in the parents' forum for more information.</p>

<p>I've been skiing almost every year since I was eight, and I've taken lessons from professional instructors. I've only skied once in the US (I usually do it in Sweden, though I did go to France once), and never competitively.</p>

<p>Basically, I'm interested in hearing more details about what it's like to ski in college, how difficult it is to get on a team, and so on. For parents whose kids are on alpine ski teams, did your S/D get recruited (if so, how) or were they able to try out after enrolling? Is there anything else I should know?</p>

<p>I'm a rising junior, so I won't be applying to college for a while, but I figured it's better to look into this sort of thing as early as possible.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance. :)</p>

<p>You need to speak to Soozievt. Her daughter had "ski team" high on her list of requirements for a college and is now on the ski team at Brown. She would be an excellent source of information for you. If she doesn't reply here, PM her.</p>

<p>I can try to help. I have a daughter who is an alpine ski racer. Actually I have two who were but one gave it up and the other is now skiing for a college ski team. </p>

<p>Skiing for a college ski team....the answer is going to vary depending WHERE you are thinking of going to college. First, there are divisions. There are conferences in the NCAA and Division 1 there consists of the top ski teams in the country. To be on one of those ski teams, you must be TOPS in the US (or abroad), meaning along the lines of National Championships, Europa Cup, Olympic development team, and other top of the line ski racing experience and you would have to be recruited. Anyone remotely considered for those teams has at least attended a ski academy for high school. There are other divisions as well in that league. There are also divisions in the USCSA and my daughter skis for a Division 1 team in the USCSA (she goes to Brown University). She was NOT recruited. However, a majority of girls on her team attended ski academies for their high school (some were likely recruits) and ALL the girls on the team, including herself, have extensive years of ski racing in their backgrounds. My D did NOT attend a ski academy and only went to public high school though she grew up ski racing since she could walk and raced on the USSA circuit through 11th grade and skied for her varsity high school ski team throughout high school. She trained on weekends through a ski academy but was not a student at the academy and did not ski full time like ski academy kids do. In fact, in high school, it was almost impossible to compete on the USSA circuit and remain competitive if not attending a ski academy. She was competitive on that circuit until high school when the other hardcore skiers on that circuit mostly opted to go to full time ski academies. She was an accomplished racer on the state level for high school varsity racing, however. Anyway, every girl on her college team has a race background and most went to ski academies. While my D was not recruited, once she was admitted to the school, she was able to finally meet with the coach (though had emailed with her during senior year but she refused to meet with my D until she was admitted first). She met with her in April of senior year and tried to find out if she could ski for Brown's varsity ski team because if she could not, she would not have gone there because of her passion for ski racing and not being willing to give it up. She was told that she could and WOULD be on the team. And she was. </p>

<p>In fact, her experience on the team this year surpassed her wildest imagination personally! The team is tops in the east for USCSA Division 1. The rest of her team is like all excellent racers for this level (ski academy kids who did not go onto Div.1 in NCAA). It turns out that she did very well in races. Also two top racers on the team got injured during the season and between her personal improvement (great coaching....brand new coach, not the one she had spoken with when she was a senior in high school) and in fact, she was selected to be on the college team for Eastern Championships which they won and she even was selected to ski Giant Slalom at Nationals for her team (her team was second overall in Nationals, that is how good they are). Again, this is USCSA teams. She LOVED the team and all the experiences with them. It is time consuming but she loves it. </p>

<p>My feeling is that if you do not have a race background, it is going to be hard to make these varsity ski teams (depending on the college). I think most on these teams have racing backgrounds and the level varies a lot but they at least have that. </p>

<p>HOWEVER...what I think is a REALLY good possibility for YOU is this....many schools have a CLUB ski team. These teams also compete against other colleges and anyone can make the team. There are no cuts. There will be kids on these teams with race backgrounds (and who are good racers) as well but there will be some kids who simply love to ski and have skied a lot growing up but maybe not racing. In fact, at Brown, the Boys's ski team is a club team and they go to the same races that my D's varsity team attends. Many of these boys have raced before and some haven't but all have skied before. They have a great time but their team does not place well as a team usually. However, at Eastern Championships and at National Championships, some CLUB teams get to go (examples....Cornell, Penn State, Syracuse, Stanford were all there and those are club teams) but they tend not to be as good as the varsity teams for reasons I've given. But there are SOME excellent racers on some of those teams who opted to go to those colleges and were content with having a club team (like she would have been) so it is not rinky dink by any means. </p>

<p>In my own daughter's case, she simply wanted to keep ski racing in college so she only applied to colleges that had ANY kind of ski team. She was not a recruited ski racer as she is not high up on the USSA circuit and nobody is going to recruit someone from the high school varsity circuit no matter how good (in this sport). But she did not let ski team issues drive her college selection process, and she felt the school just had to have a team, any kind of team. If she had narrowed it to varsity teams, it would have affected her college list way too much (too narrow). It was already narrowed by which schools had any sort of ski team. So, of her 8 schools, 6 had a club team and 2 had varsity teams. On each college visit, she met with the club team captains to find out more about the team and she realized that there would be some kids like her with race backgrounds and some not (which is kinda like the high school racing circuit). She was fine with that. I already explained the situation with Brown and the other varsity team was at Smith and she met with that coach twice and hit it off and was introduced to the team and even went to one of their races and she got to forerun the race (Brown was there too). She was told she could ski for them if she got in and came. She was not recruited but she did meet with the coach to ascertain her chances of skiing there because it mattered to her in her college decision since it was a varsity team and you have to make the team which is not the case with a club team She did get in. In fact, being able to ski varsity for them was quite enticing and added to her interest in the school. (This year at all the races, she raced against Smith and in fact, became friendly with the Smith coach who cheered her on despite her not choosing Smith where she would have been ranked higher on the team than she is on Brown's team, but Smith's team itself is not ranked as high as Brown's....he is a classy coach and I met him at Nationals finally). When she found out she could ski varsity at Brown (at accepted student open house) she was ecstatic because while she was perfectly happy to go to a college that had a club team (such as faves Tufts and Yale), she was even more psyched to get to ski on a varsity team. But even with her race background, she'd have enjoyed a club team and that is where I think you will likely end up. </p>

<p>Which colleges are you interested in and do you know if they have a varsity or club team? Run them by me and I can help you further. I think if an experienced hard core racer like my D was happy to ski for a club team, you could be as well. It is the most appropriate or likely option for you. Racing is not the same as simply skiing. Yes, you have to ski well and carve your turns in free skiing but there is much technique and experience that goes on in the gates and is specific to that. Maybe this year you can do some racing where you live and try it out. Let me know if I can help you further.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>soozievt: Thanks for the long post! :) I had no idea that it was so competitive, or even that there was such a thing as ski academies. I live in DC and skiing isn't really a popular sport here. It does seem like the best option for me would be a club team, because even though I'm a pretty good skier I would probably be at a disadvantage since I don't have a racing background.</p>

<p>I don't have a clear list of colleges yet, but my preliminary first choice/superreach is Yale, which you said have a club team (one more point for Yale!). Other reaches I'm interested in are Brown, Dartmouth, and Amherst, and I've been looking at Allegheny as a safety. The list isn't complete yet, but I still have junior year to do that,so I'm not in a rush... It's also difficult to know without having visited anywhere. (The reason I'm researching the admissions process now is that I've only lived in the US for a few years, and neither of my parents went to college here. Starting early took some of the mystery out of everything.)</p>

<p>Thanks for being so helpful, and I'll let you know if I have any more questions in the future.</p>

<p>Hi again, I did not realize you are just finishing up tenth grade so you have a ways to go. This is a good time to start investigating and I hope you can visit some schools in the coming year. </p>

<p>Ok, Yale has a club team and my D met kids on it and even knows a girl from our state on it. It sounded great and you'd be fine there. Brown, in all honesty, I don't know if you could get on the team and if you did, there would be many girls ahead of you who would be put into the races. If you care about ski racing in college, going to a school with a varsity team like Brown's might keep this ski option out for you but you could see by talking to them at Brown. I know one girl from VT who just got in for next year but she goes to a ski academy. At Dartmouth, FORGETTA ABOUT it with regard to the ski team. Dartmouth is one of the top Division 1 ski teams in the NCAA and in the country. Their skiers are recruited from the highest level races and went to ski academies. My D could not ski for Dartmouth. We live where there is a ski academy and their best racers go to schools like Dartmouth. I don't know if Amherst has a club team...they likely might given their location but they don't have a varsity ski team, I really don't think so. Allegheny, I don't know. </p>

<p>I do not know your academic (and other) qualifications but imagine you must be an excellent student if considering schools like that. I hope you don't mind a suggestion but Brown, Yale, Amherst, and Dartmouth are BIG REACH SCHOOLS for ANY student. They turn away plenty of the best and brightest students. The odds of admissions are not predictable at those schools. If you have what it takes to be considered, by all means GO FOR IT. But please also look for schools that are what may be called match schools or ballpark or realistic schools. You have a fine safety. Find one more safety you like. But try to add three match schools if you can and these can be quite challenging schools too. I don't know enough about you to suggest any but that is where you might want to put some energy now. Also, when you research the schools, look up their varsity sport teams and their club teams and see what they've got for skiing. Remember, there is a wealth of great schools BETWEEN the four on your list and Allegheny. Look into some of those to add to your budding list. Examples of liberal arts colleges in PA (since you have Allegheny) that are in between schools that you have as reaches and then your safety, might be Dickinson, Bucknell, or Lafayette. I know that Lehigh has a club ski team. Ever look into Connecticut College? They have a club ski team too. I don't know your college criteria or even credentials so it is hard to really recommend. Tufts has a club ski team, by the way, and is in between your reach and safety schools on your list.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you!</p>

<p>I looked at the Dartmouth website and apparently they have something called the "development team". I'm not sure how you qualify, but it seems less competitive.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Development Team is perhaps the key element that makes Dartmouth Skiing unique. The Alpine and Cross Country Development Teams consist of skiers, both men and women, who are not participating in intercollegiate racing, yet still wish to pursue an intense and competitive racing career. The racing schedules for the Alpine and Cross Country Development Teams are no less demanding than the Varsity and Junior Varsity schedules. Development Team skiers travel to races every weekend. Some athletes focus on regional competition, while others set their sights on national events such as the Junior Olympics. Both the alpine and cross country teams each have their own coach.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I made same mistake as many top students in immediately focusing on hyperreaches because they were the schools I knew, but I recently got the Fiske guide and am searching for matches that would fit me. It's still very much a work in process as I've yet to get past the letter C. ;)</p>

<p>As for academics: I have a 6.3 on a scale of 1 to 7 at a respected DC private school. (Sounds lower than it is because of grade deflation--no one ever gets a 7.0 around here.) I am retaking the SAT, but I took it cold for practice in March and got a 2120. My sophomore year PSAT score was 214. I am taking the hardest possible courseload and will complete a bilingual (English/French) IB Diploma. I'm also fluent in three languages, one of them unusual (Swedish). Extracurriculars are the usual (newspaper writer aiming for editor/8 years of horseback riding but not competitively/some local recognition in photography/joining newly started debate team/working on a novel) but I should be able to do well in essays and interviews. As always, it's impossible to predict.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions; I'll look up the schools you mentioned.</p>

<p>tyg, I'm not a ski expert by any stretch of the imagination (although my son's an avid snowboarder) but it makes sense to me if you want to ski to look at colleges near mountains. Middlebury, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby and Williams also have ski teams. </p>

<p>Could some one please explain the difference between Nordic skiing and Alpine skiing?</p>

<p>Momrath, while location does matter, it really matters which kind of team we are talking about. There is no way she would make the Middlebury or Williams team. My daughter could not and she is an accomplished ski racer. Those teams are in the top NCAA Div. 1 league. Bates also has very good racers. A top school with a club team would be the way to go....many top schools have club teams...ie, Cornell, Tufts, Princeton, Penn, Yale, and likely schools like Colgate, Hamilton, Colby, and so on. </p>

<p>Alpine skiing is downhill skiing events on a mountain....the Giant Slalom and Slalom events are what you would see in college racing but there is also the downhill and Super G. These are the events where you see skiers in helmets racing at breakneck speeds down a snowy mountain slope and weaving between gates. (and their freezing cold moms on the side of the mountain praying that they don't crash)</p>

<p>Nordic skiing is kinda like track but on snow. It is cross country skiing with many events. This is on skinnier skis where the heel in the boot lifts up as the skier takes strides. Lots of endurance involved. You don't need a mountain for it but you need snow. Alpine skiing is the far more dangerous sport of the two :D. </p>

<p>ThisYearsGirl, you have excellent grades and test scores and I'm sure you will be a competitive candidate. </p>

<p>I am not sure what the Dartmouth development team is and if it is for kids who aren't on the varsity squad. But for instance, I know a boy from our high school, a lifelong ski racer, at Dartmouth now and he would not be recruited for their varsity team (which again has some of the best racers in the country) but if he is skiing in college, and they have a second tier team, someone like him would be on it. I'm not clear without hearing more if that team would take someone with no race background. Overall, I still think your best bet if you want to make sure you can ski race in college is to apply to schools with a club ski team which again is still intercollegiate. You will get on it. Good skiers will participate. Another option that is not racing is some schools have winter outing club type things where they go on ski trips on weekends (not racing). Just another thought. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Soozie, Thanks for the short-course :). Always interesting to learn something new.</p>

<p>I just read the information at Dartmouth's site. The Development team might not be what you thought. It is another racing opportunity (and coaching) for those ski racers who are not doing the varsity intercollegiate racing but want to do either regional or national USSA races. Some skiers want to stay active on that competitive circuit which involves something called "points" and it becomes very difficult to fit in USSA races if you are also racing for a high school or college team. In fact, that was the case for my D in high school, she did less and less USSA races as she got older because her high school varsity races were also on weekends. She also could not stay competitive on that circuit. There are excellent ski racers who might want to continue on the USSA regional or national race circuit and not be on the collegiate team. College (or high school) ski racing is VERY different from USSA racing. One major difference is that when racing in a USSA event, you are racing for YOURSELF. You compete against others and very little commaraderie goes on. In a school team racing event, while you care about your individual goals and results, the only thing that TRULY matters is the TEAM score and you are cheering for your teammates and sometimes even sacrificing your personal best if, for instance, the one of the first three girls racing the course for your team has fallen, then the fourth girl MUST get a time in order for the team to have a score and the goal would be to ski well, not fall, not take too many risks, etc. to benefit the team overall. You are skiing for a team, not yourself, foremost. Same with in high school racing. While everyone sets individual goals for themself and also gets individual results and times, the recognition is for a team result. There are some individual awards at Nationals for top finishers and there are things like Academic All American you can get (like my D got) but it is the team results that are what the deal is about. </p>

<p>So, at Dartmouth, there might be experienced competitive racers who want to continue to get coaching and compete in regional and national USSA events. I got the feeling that that was what the development team is. I saw the list of races and while someone who is not a good racer COULD enter those events, there will be very good racers at them. My D could enter those but not be at the top, and again, she has raced her entire life. </p>

<p>But I DID see that Dartmouth has an Outing Club and within it, a winter sport one. I am sure there are skiing activities. In fact, Dartmouth has its own little ski area!! But there are bigger ones not far away in NH and in VT too. So, if skiing is your thing, Dartmouth is a good choice but if it has to be ski racing, I'd look elsewhere if you are not an accomplished racer. Dartmouth's varsity team is one of the top in the nation and so even its development team is gonna be up there in terms of experiencd kids. But you could SKI a lot if you went to the Big Green. :D
Susan</p>

<p>FYI....this is somewhat related.......here's a thread I started a while back on snowboarding opportunities at schools with warm climates:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=54105%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=54105&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also, you should definitely peruse this college skiing web site:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.uscsa.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.uscsa.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As a follow up.....I live in a very small town in a rural area of Vermont. We have a ski academy in our town (this is a boarding school, though local kids can enroll as day students). Kids who go to ski academies are training full time and race all over the country and the world. I just read in our local paper that of the 18 graduates this year, FIVE are going to Dartmouth. And this is a class where several kids are staying for a post graduate year to train some more. So of all the kids actually going to college next year, that is a huge number going just to Dartmouth. THAT is the kind of ski racer you are going to find at Dartmouth. And that is either on the varsity or the development team. That is just ONE ski academy. There are several TOP ski academies in VT (some of their graduates are on my D's ski team at Brown even) and so their students are going to head to schools with ski teams most likely. Some will go to the top ski teams like UVM, Dartmouth, Middlebury, Williams, U of Colorado, etc. Some might opt for a school like Brown. So, this gives you an idea of the kind of ski racer you'll run into at a place like Dartmouth.
Susan</p>

<p>I did not see Papa Chicken's post when I was posting above. But yes, the USCSA is the association that my D's team is in. Her team, Brown, is in the Eastern Conference. This website gives you a list of schools with teams so it is a great resource. </p>

<p>BUT please be aware that the main list does not break down which are club teams and which are varsity teams. For instance, in the Eastern Conference....Brown, Boston College, Smith, Plymouth State, Colby-Sawyer, UMass-Amherst are varsity teams and have excellent racers on them. Yale, Conn College, Wesleyan, Tufts are examples of club teams. Those are the teams I think the OP could consider, given her background. And then remember, this list is not even including the TOP ski teams in the country in the NCAA Division 1....the schools like UVM, U of Colorado, U of Denver, U of Utah, Dartmouth, Williams, Middlebury, etc.</p>

<p>So, you can start with this list but then visit each college's website and look up its varsity teams and its clubs and go from there.</p>

<p>The top college ski league in the East is the EISA. It is comprised of Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Dartmouth, Harvard, Middlebury, St. Lawrence, St. Michaels, UNH, UVM, and Williams. Although competitive, it's not like trying to play Division 1 in a major revenue generating sport. Most, if not all of the schools publish recruiting brochures that will give you insights into potential to ski for their teams.</p>

<p>You are right that it is not like other sports. But I can tell you that the kids on the UVM, Dartmouth, Middlebury, UNH and Williams teams are the kinds of kids coming out of full time ski academies and some have national and international experience and there are kids on the UVM team who are on the US Olympic development team. Even my own kid, who has been a very good ski racer in our state her whole life, could not ski for these teams, no way. I think had she applied to Harvard or St. Lawrence, even though they are in that division, she could have made those teams. The OP has never raced before and so those teams are not a viable option, I feel certain. Even some of the varsity teams in the USCSA in the eastern conference would not be an option (ie. Brown, Boston College) but some might be as well as the club ski teams. I know the kids going to the teams in the EISA Division 1 and we are talking kids with very low USSA points, and from the top ski academies in the country.</p>

<p>the OP writes "Extracurriculars are the usual (newspaper writer aiming for editor/8 years of horseback riding but not competitively/some local recognition in photography/joining newly started debate team/working on a novel) but I should be able to do well in essays and interviews."</p>

<p>I suggest getting a book or two on college admissions to get more info about the process. For the types of schools the OP has mentioned (eg "I'm interested in are Brown, Dartmouth, and Amherst") ECs need to be superlative because the students you're competing against have great ECs as well as the fine grades and scores of the OP. So just being a participant in a few areas might not be enough to tip the scales. Top schools are looking for kids with leadership, regional recognition in their passion, and national recognition doesn't hurt! </p>

<p>What Princeton says is fairly typical -- "Among those applicants who are strongly qualified in academic terms, we look for involvement and commitment in nonacademic areas. We make particular note of special talents or accomplishments." So I would suggest the OP find a way to take at least one of her interests, skiing or equestrian, farther.</p>

<p>BTW one school worth considering is out west, stanford. They have a club ski team, and are building their equestrian program which hadn't been very strong (see <a href="http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/9439572.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/9439572.htm&lt;/a&gt;) A nationally recognized rider would probably have a leg up if applying to stanford.</p>

<p>My son did the Club ski team at Yale this past year as a freshman. It is casual, yet fun. They skied over XMAS break in Canada at Mt. Tremblant for a wk. Approx cost to him was $500 which included room, food and pass. They have races every weekend against the other schools with club teams at a variety of area mtns. Biggest advantage is you get to ski if you love to ski. You don't have to go to every meet if you have a conflict due to school etc. He had a great time in Canada and is recruiting friends to join the club team next year. The club team meets 1 night a week for dinner.....as my son calls it, he is "skiing with the eating team." Biggest disadvantage is they get almost no funding from Yale....they get themselves to the mtns...some of the kids have cars and they pool riders.....captains do all the logistical work which is time consuming. But, overall, if you love to ski, want to race some, but are not in the Dartmouth, Middlebury or Williams category for competitive racing, then a school with a club ski team is answer. I know MIT has a ski team and my son had fun envisioning telling folks he skied on the MIT team, but Yale was always first choice and when that came thru, all other options were off the table. </p>

<p>Good luck thisyearsgirl, and thanks again to Soozievt for excellent in-depth response on college ski options.</p>

<p>Re: Middlebury - If the OP wants to ski, but not on a team, Middlebury might be a good match. The college runs a small ski area on its Breadloaf campus, which is just up the road from the main campus. Other VT ski areas are within a reasonable drive.</p>

<p>If she just wants to ski because she enjoys it she can also ski at Dartmouth to fulfill one of her 3 PE requirements.</p>

<p>as a side question, the OP starts out by writing "I originally posted here, but was advised to post in the parents' forum for more information." The word "here" is a link to a post. How is that done?</p>