<p>Well, sounds like the alternative would be for the grandmother to provide same (sounds very common from what you’ve described) or for the daughter to stay home with the kid (thus not going to school).</p>
<p>Is the mom currently paying for tuition, room and board or just tuition?</p>
<p>I think it would be very good to have a third party walk the D and her mom through some of the financial issues, setting aside the religious ones ( a big set aside, I know, but the financial ones would be the same if the D chose to marry a non-Mormom).</p>
<p>The third party can stipulate that the mom will continue paying tuition as long as the D remains in college. Then the D can be asked how does she and her fiance intend to pay for rent, car expenses, food and clothing? Ask her to draw up a budget. Ask about plans for children and what the young couple would do if a child was born before the D has completed her college education. And so on. The questions should come from the third party rather than from the mom, so that the tone does not appear confrontational on either side. The third party would also be the one providing information about the cost of rent, grocery, car expenses and so on. The same person could ask about the earning prospects of the fiance in a nice way: “will he be in a position to contribute to the household budget? Will the surgery be expensive? How has he budgeted for it?” </p>
<p>Since the second semester has only just started, there is time, I hope, to retrieve the situation; at least the exchanges between mom and daughter can be made less acrimonious.</p>
<p>Interventions seem all the rage. Perhaps one would work well here. What is there to lose - a daughter? Maybe, but not if it’s done right. If the relationship is that strained then perhaps there are siblings, cousins or other family members who could do it.
just a thought.</p>
<p>The base issue is that we can’t control our kids choices. For me tying their choices to money is a particularly unappealing way to proceed.</p>
<p>If S converted to a religion I didn’t grok (well, I don’t really grok any of them) it would be his choice.</p>
<p>Same as if he married someone who was not my choice. </p>
<p>Would the parents fund her education if they had sex and basically lived together? Probably. </p>
<p>So there is a definite clash in values her.</p>
<p>I really hated it when my parents used money to make me “toe the line.” Ultimately I gave up an Ivy league education to escape their controlling and paid for college myself through many (all legal) means. </p>
<p>Still, this has left scars. It really has. I guess that’s why I want the opposite for my kids. I will tell them if I disagree with their choice, but I won’t tie it to money. And I usually end with, “But you know best for you.” There are two reasons for this. I want them to know I trust them and support them and don’t dispute their choices. Second, I want them to feel confident in making decisions. I would always be here. So I decided going to college was the time I’d stop trying to micromanage their lives.</p>
<p>Sometimes I do backslide, but I quickly catch myself.</p>
<p>I agree with Marite. </p>
<p>If I were the parent, I would continue to pay for the tuition if the D remains in college since I want her to get an education and that would not change even if she married younger which was against my hopes for her. My hope for her education would not have changed. </p>
<p>I don’t think the fact that she married young implies she is going to have children right away. I would discuss the wisdom of holding off on children until she finishes college and discuss all financial implications. </p>
<p>In my view, holding the education funding over her head appears to be a “consequence.”</p>
<p>I think the much larger issue here is the parents’ disappointment about the D entering the Mormon religion and I comlpetely understand that this is not the life they had wished for her. At some point, they will have to accept it and work with her (and I like Marite’s idea of an objective third party sitting in on the discussion) to plan for the future under her new circumstances. They may not wish for her to marry at this age, nor to this boy, nor into this religion. They can’t stop it. They can advise their D, however. The payment for her tuition, to me, is unrelated to the issue of their disappointment of her marrying young or into another religion.</p>
<p>I cross posted with mythmom but I agree completely…I would not tie money to these issues with the D. That is a controlling thing. I would deal head on with the issues at hand and advise her best as I could but still support her and not attempt to control her.</p>
<p>I also would plan a separate wedding reception for my family and friends.</p>
<p>It apparently was made clear to the D that college funding depended on several things, one of which was not getting married in college. This strikes me to analogous as requiring a certain GPA or steady progress toward a degree. Of course the parents can’t control what their D does, but they do control what they do. So the parents are supposed to acquiesce, go back on their word, even though the D is walking into the marriage knowing that she’d lose her college funding??</p>
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<p>Given how well the discussion about holding off on marriage until she finishes college worked, I doubt discussing the wisdom of holding off on children and all the financial implications is going to work, especially if the parents go back on their word about paying for college. </p>
<p>If they could get the D to hold off for one year and get married next summer, that would give the D time to acquire some money management skills, and the potential SIL to recover fully from back surgery. It’d also give the D an additional year in school. Perhaps the deal under which the D originally accepted their college funding could be changed to the last year being paid for if the couple waits a year to get married, but that should be worked out now.</p>
<p>I agree that marrying young doesn’t mean children right away- when I mentioned new family, I was referencing her spouses family- LDS families are very tight, and particulary since she shares a religion with her inlaws to be, that will become important and a new commitment. ( IMO)</p>
<p>That doesn’t mean the kid wouldn’t have met a guy at college, or converted to muslim or whatever. But I can tell you my DD on the east coast isn’t surrounded by married college students at 19</p>
<p>True dat.
In Portland, D didn’t have any friends who were " married" until they had been out of school for a few years.The friends who had the longest standing relationships, ( of more than a few years) were gay/lesbian ironically. She did have friends in Seattle that she had met through work who were married, but they were in their 30’s.</p>
<p>I imagine peer influence is a big part, especially since this young couple is on the impressionable side.</p>
<p>But not all LDS marry young, neither of my nieces is engaged, and one is 26! ( the other returned from her mission last spring). Two boys, who are both in a local college, are not engaged and aren’t planning on missions- and the youngest just turned 4, so he wont be going anywhere anytime soon.</p>
<p>Not in Utah makes a difference I imagine.
What was interesting , my sister and her husband were adamant they didn’t want their kids to attend BYU, not sure why, it seemed like a good deal to me. ( the two girls attended an east coast private LAC)</p>
<p>So the girl marries and has children right away (which means nine months after the wedding). In the meantime, if the parents continue to pay her tuition and she continues to attend college, she will have had another year of college under her belt. If she stops attending college, the parents stop paying tuition. What’s wrong with this scenario? Is it any worse than parents stopping paying her tuition as soon as she marries? Is this whole discussion about saving themselves some money in anticipation of something they fear will happen but has not happened, but definitely will if they don’t help out with tuition, namely her not finishing college?</p>
<p>Of course, it’s their money and they can do what they like with it. But is the problem the D’s reneging on a promise made when she was 17 or 18 (not marrying until after college), helping her get a college degree and starting her on a life of financial independence thanks to a colelge degree? Or is it disapproval of the young man she wants to marry and the religion she is embracing?</p>
<p>Marite…again, I agree. I don’t get it. Originally the parents wanted the D to go to college. They wanted it so badly that they told D they would only send her to college if she didn’t get married. D is getting married, but what happened to their desire to see D get a degree? I could see the parents not wanting her to get married and GIVING UP COLLEGE, and thus the desire to want her to stay in college. But even if they wish she did not get married, doing so doesn’t preclude going to college. She can do both. They apparently didn’t want her to give up college to get married. She is getting married but doesn’t have to give up college. They wanted her to go to college. What happened with that goal? She still wants to go. The only reason she may not go is because she now can’t afford to go. She wouldn’t be giving up college due to marriage. The parents are not paying out of spite that she didn’t do what they wanted (not get married) but they are missing their goal of wanting her to finish college which she is willing to do. So, now they get a young married daughter AND no college degree. They may not have wanted her to marry so young (understandably) but she still could earn her degree as they had hoped. </p>
<p>I really think that the parents reneging on paying tuition is tied to their disapproval of who she wants to marry and the religion she is embracing. Both those things are understandably disappointing but the answer isn’t to withhold college tuition to show their disapproval. What does that accomplish??? They still get a married daughter and now she won’t have a college degree. How is that a good outcome? Along with that, this “strings attached” deal could lead to discord and a break in the relationship between their only child and themselves.</p>
<p>I have been following this thread, and my heart just breaks for the OP’s friends and even the daughter, who it seems is desperately trying to find her place this world. </p>
<p>I agree that a calm sit down, with a neutral party if at all possible, to discuss financial realities should take place. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned (and if the daughter is truly clueless she may not have thought about) is how will these kids get health care coverage (assuming they may be only working part time)? Even if the back surgery is covered by original accident, he may be tough to cover with pre-existing conditions, and if babies are anywhere in the near future, there needs to be solid coverage for her as well. Once they marry, I assume they may be dropped from parents coverage?</p>
<p>That’s the thing…the D and the fiancee are young and not that realistic and need guidance. Right now, I think they need advice and guidance of all the things that need to be weighed rather than discord, disapproval and threats. Rather than controlling them, they need to be guided as they are young and likely have not thought through various ramifications. Rather than manipulating them to do what the parents want, they need to discuss all the issues and need advice.</p>
<p>Well, if she does get her degree, then since it sounds like she lives in an area where a lot of people her age do NOT get degrees, she will have more value in the job market later. Although I am in favor of the parents paying for her degree (if they can afford it), I like the suggestion of one poster who says the parents should offer to pay off student loans later if the daughter graduates. I also understand why the parents want to cut this girl off: they had an agreement, which the daughter broke. I also have a couple of “drop dead” issues that would make me stop paying for my kids education and I hope I never have to confront where I would really draw the line. In some ways, people of my generation tend to view college as a privilege, while the current generation views it as a right, almost like high school was in my day, and think their parents owe them funding for college. So, we parents are ambivalent: we know in our hearts that our kids should get that degree yet we also do not want to throw away all of our values in order to help them get the degree no matter what. Someone on this thread asked if the daughter even wishes to pursue her degree. Aside from the long term family relationship issues, which I think are the most important thing to protect, the daughter’s desire to finish college is the big question, isn’t it? It sounds like these parent’s fears have come to pass. What I always ask myself in challenging situations though is this: If I were to find out my child had a serious or terminal illness, would any of this matter? And also, If my child died next week, would I have any regrets about how I handled things? Problems that seem really traumatic tend to fade when compared to real life and death situations. I am reminded of one parent I know who was complaining about her son’s lack of ambition regarding his college degree the week before he died in an accident. One week later, at the funeral, the very qualities that made him lackadaisical about college were valued as he was eulogized. This problem is one of clashing values as the daughter chooses differently from the parents. They have to accept it if they want a relationship with her at this point. They are in shock, but the will come to accept the situation with the help of a counselor (hope they get a good one).</p>
<p>I don’t see this as a culture clash for now unless the parents make it one. They want the kid to go to college; she is in college; I bet she’s assuming that she’s going to continue to go to college unless her parents pull the plug, in which case she reverts to plan B which is folding sweaters at the Gap or whatever.</p>
<p>Sometimes it is easier if you keep things simple.</p>
<p>I’d be the first to admit that I don’t want my girls to get married while in college. However, given that I did it myself, I don’t see why there is an assumption that all will be negative. We still got our degrees. We still supported ourselves once we graduated. The main difference was that rather than live together unmarried, we were married. Our parents still put us through school. Our future aspirations were not changed by being married. Being married did not mean I was doomed. I still got my college degree, grad degree, and went on to have a career and then later to have children. While it would not be my suggested course of action, it is not like these kids are doomed if they are married. I’d be more concerned if a D got married and gave up college and her career aspirations and goals in order to be married. That’s not what I am hearing in this case if the D wishes to continue with college but simply be married while doing so. I don’t think getting married needs to stop her education. I think the parents pulling the plug on her education will likely have a more negative consequence than the daughter getting married.</p>
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While I don’t agree with the decision to cut off educational funds, I do have a lot of sympathy for the parents here. This warning to their daughter showed they anticipated a situation like the one they now have. One source of the problem is the peer group the daughter was exposed to while growing up. I find it hard to imagine a culture in 2009 America where marrying and having kids at 19 is the norm. I had no idea it was like this in Utah – this thread is giving me a very bad impression of the state!</p>
<p>Well, now since they won’t pay for her education, she can drop out of college and start having kids! The irony. </p>
<p>In my view, they should stick with the goal that she goes to college (as long as her grades are within reason) and fund that. </p>
<p>My guess is that the friends from college got married young and had kids but did NOT go to college and I can see that the parents wanted to avoid THAT. But their D can still go to college…that’s the thing. Getting married doesn’t keep her from college. But lack of funds will.</p>
<p>I’ve always told my child that the person he would choose to marry at age 20 is not the same person he would chose at age 25. Those are five years of big changes and revealing actions. I don’t know what I would do in the given situation, but I would never do anything so extreme that it closed the door on our relationship. He or she would remember it forever. If she chose to get married, and it was a mistake, I would want to be close enough to pick up the pieces where needed.</p>
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<p>Girls aged 18 and 19 have a birth rate of 73 per 1,000.</p>
<p>How do the other young married college students in Utah get their health insurance?</p>