<p>Yes, this is the baby state. You can argue my stats on the other subjects but hands down, we have more babies and kids than anywhere else. It’s job security for me. I laugh when I read our stats about low numbers of unwed teen moms. Our pregnant teens are just married, that’s all. Also, no one takes into consideration the remarriage numbers. It is very common here to divorce and remarry very quickly. So we’re the marriage state too. Sometimes, lots of them. Health insurance is a problem. I work with kids in college who are married and go without. Either it is too expensive for them or not offered. When they become pregnant they can get insurance for the mom and baby for the pregnancy. Then starts state assistance and the cycle begins. The mormon church does have an excellent welfare system to support it’s members but that doesn’t mean they don’t also use state assistance.</p>
<p>The college probably has health insurance that’s required for folks not on their parents’ plans. Most colleges require proof of coverage or require that you buy coverage through the school.</p>
<p>re: life and death issues–S of a friend was not college bound. He wanted to marry his HS GF when they were 18/19. They looked into getting married in his (Catholic) church. The pastor refused, telling them to wait, get jobs, gain maturity (they were both below average students and not that competent). So they went down to the county courthouse and got hitched.
His parents were heartbroken. They didn’t consider the couple “married” and wouldn’t allow the girl to stay under their roof. The couple moved to a distant state to live with her (divorced) father.
The young man finished a training program for a dangerous physical job which he does on contract–involves constant travel. Well, within a year the girl was going out with other guys when her H was out of town. They planned to divorce, but apparently they made up, got pregnant, and decided to make it work. Fast forward a few months and my friend is happily showing off pictures of her granddaughter.
A few months later the young man was diagnosed with an advanced cancer and he,wife, & baby have moved in with HIS parents (married or not), while he has surgery/chemo, etc. (no insurance, BTW). My friend is getting along just fine with D-in-law even in this stressful situation, everyone just loves having the baby around–and the couple is planning to get married in church.</p>
<p>I checked and health insurance is not required or even offered as a group plan to purchase for their college. The web site said “check the yellow pages”. </p>
<p>I remember a story when this girl first entered college during her move in weekend that her mom told me. There was a card on her desk from the mormon church. It read “college is where you find your spiritual soul mate”. The kid laughed and the mother tore it up. I felt nauseas and happily wrote out that’s month’s payment to an out of state college. I felt it was very creepy at a public university.</p>
<p>Nurse, I think it’s great that you want to help your friends. You sound like a very caring person with a lot of empathy.</p>
<p>However-- stepping back and realizing that this is NOT your own daughter, so however creepy you may find this situation-- or however disappointed you may be in the girl for having given your friends so much grief- at some point, your continued projection ceases to be helpful or loving to your friends and starts to get in the way of you being helpful and objective.</p>
<p>It’s so easy to get caught up in their situation… but you can be more help to them if you try and control your own emotional reaction.</p>
<p>I’m with Blossom here. And though there are variations to this theme, it is really an old story. Parents against a marriage for whatever reason. It’s up to them to figure it out. A tale as old time and marriage.</p>
<p>^^ This is why I posted on this board. It usually helps me to be more objective in any situation regarding kids, etc. I’ve taken them to dinner, gave them numbers for counselors, and just offered emotional support. It’s easier to vent frustration to strangers on this blog. In real life I can shut up and realize this isn’t my kid.</p>
<p>I met the love of my life very young. He was Jewish (Orthodox), I wasn’t. I underwent an Orthodox conversion to share his faith, hoping to build a marriage and family upon a strong, common foundation. </p>
<p>Though we were tempted, we remained chaste throughout the years we dated. </p>
<p>Eventually we decided we were ready to marry. We promised and gave ourselves to each other. He broke the news to his parents. Because of my different background, his father forbade it. If we married anyway, his father would sever all financial support. My beloved was unable to defy his father. We parted ways, heartbroken.</p>
<p>His education and career continued uninterrupted.</p>
<p>Fast forward almost twenty years. Two unhappy marriages and five children later, we discover we are still in love with each other, and it is too late. </p>
<p>He has a successful career and acceptable wife but feels hollow and utterly regretful. He never forgave his father for interfering, keeping him from true fulfillment that only comes from a loving family.</p>
<p>So even when money is used successfully to control a child’s decisions, there may be painful life-long consequences. </p>
<p>I would humbly suggest that loving and wise guidance – preserving relationships – be the guiding principle for this delicate, multifaceted dilemma. Regardless of the outcome, love, support and ongoing closeness will hold all parties in good stead.</p>
<p>To OP:</p>
<p>The very best thing you can do is make sure your friends do not poison the relationship with their child. Anything you can do to cool things down would be a great idea.</p>
<p>nurse:</p>
<p>Is there anything like “the normal” response to this in Utah? What I mean is that you relate that there are lots and lots of marriages of very young adults–18,19,20-- in Utah. </p>
<p>Do most parents financially support these newlyweds? If so, to what extent? </p>
<p>Are the reactions of your friends ''outside the norm?"</p>
<p>Jenesiquois (apologies for spelling)</p>
<p>A major difference, if I am not mistaken, is the while you would have been expected to convert to marry, no one would have asked you to cut off relations with your parents. They would have been welcome at your wedding, as long as they were willing to make minor and temporary accomodations, in terms of dress and seating. Please someone correct me if I wrong, but I have been invited to Orthodox weddings.</p>
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<p>This story is sad. However, his father kept him from nothing. This young man decided that he’d rather have his father’s money than stand on his own and support himself. Friends of ours just celebrated their 20th anniversary. They are of different races, became pregnant in college and both families completely cut them off when the decided to marry. They made their choice. It is truly a shame that this man has declined to take responsibility for his own inaction and instead continues locked in battled with an old man. </p>
<p>Adults are responsible for their own happiness. That is clearly a lesson this man has missed. It is never too late. It’s never too late to recommitt to ones marriage. It is never too late to decide that one’s time is better spent building a fulfilling life than lamenting the life that could have been. It would be a tremendous gift to himself to release his father and move into the drivers seat of his own life.</p>
<p>je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi</p>
<p>How terribly sad…and instructional.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t cut off a child for marrying in these circumstances, though I would strongly disapprove and make my disapproval known.</p>
<p>A much more difficult situation would be if my child wanted to marry a partner who was abusive toward my child and our family. I think I would feel that any support of the marriage condoned the abuse. I might continue to pay college tuition directly to the school in order to increase the likelihood that the child would be able leave the marriage in the future, but I don’t think I could attend, much less help pay for, the wedding or the new home.</p>
<p>je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi – very sad and horrible. I have seen similar, where parents cut off all contact and never meet grandkids, etc.</p>
<p>
I don’t see it this way. I am guessing that the father was cutting off not only financial support, but also son’s future contact with his family.</p>
<p>07DAD-There’s definately a cultural divide here so the response would vary. A mormon family would find this decision pretty much expected. However most wouldn’t expect to be supporting this couple throughout college. Most could not with a large family and some might have a couple in college at the same time. I would expect that our graduating in 4 year rate is probably lower than other places. Most couples work full or part-time and go to school also. I would say the majority of couples in college are doing it on their own. Parents usually step up for a wedding but as previously posted, they are very minimal and basic receptions. (punch and cookies for 300 people) We have a high bankruptcy rate so i’m sure a lot of debt is accumulated starting so young. I’m sure parents who have the money would be helping out their kids if they could. But I don’t know a lot of very large rich families here. </p>
<p>A typical non mormon family would probably have the same repsonse to my friends initially. </p>
<p>I mentor a lot of college students with my job. It is very common to have them tell me they are married and see them pregnant while finishing their degree.</p>
<p>I work with a lot of observant jews, and they also have objections to pre-maritial sex, and have in my mine almost arranged marriages. They do expect to support couple through college, and it is apparently part of negotiation between families.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi]
If we married anyway, his father would sever all financial support. … His education and career continued uninterrupted.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sad. Did you see each other after he was done with his education? At that point, he should have been self sufficient. I think that is what most of us are saying: Wait till you finish college before getting married.</p>
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<p>This is one scenario I was thinking of for the young woman if her mom continued to support her in college. It is possible that the young couple would delay having children, whether intentionally or unintentionally; or that the young woman would continue her education until the birth of her child and possibly beyond.
When I was in grad school, one woman took her Ph.D. general exams four days after giving birth!</p>
<p>There are a hundred reasons why people end up in unhappy marriages. A therapist would tell you that a high percentage of those reasons have to do with one or both parties to the marriage spending their time looking out the rear view mirror in case someone better comes along, vs. looking ahead and building a life with the person inthe other seat. (Sorry for the bad auto analogy. I’m out of sports metaphors today.)</p>
<p>None of this is terribly relevant for these kids in my opinion. They’ve already got several strikes against them in the “marital longevity” department, at least at a statistical level. Their age; lack of education; poor health (at least for now) puts them in a crappy place to begin with… but to be realistic, nobody really knows whether they will go on to build a life together or if it will all fall apart in the next couple of years.</p>
<p>So nobody knows. These tales of star-crossed lovers don’t seem all that relevant. The OP’s friends need practical suggestions of how to remedy the strained relationship with their daughter, and some strategies for helping to keep her on track for becoming a self supporting adult, regardless of whether she’s found her true love or not.</p>
<p>I know people in marriages like those that je ne sais quoi describes. It’s so convenient to be 50 years old and to be able to blame Daddy and Mummy for the crappy decisions you’ve made. They forced you to marry the wrong person. They kept you away from the right person. They were so judgemental about the race/gender/religion/family status of your one true love. Ok- we get it. But at some point, you’re a middle aged person- get a grip and take responsibility for not working at your crappy marriage, or giving up on your terrible marriage, or for not making any effort to get out of your boring marriage, or whatever it is. It seems a little too easy to be blaming the 'rents after all these years. Surely there is a statute of limitations on the blame game.</p>