My daughter performed community service with her sports team, with the entire athletic community, and with her sorority. Much more than she would have if she wasn’t an athlete and didn’t belong to a sorority. I don’t think her engineering fraternity participated in any community events.
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Soon they’ll be saying let’s eliminate sports management, sports marketing, health and physical education majors, as well. Those majors seem to draw in the athletes, too!
No doubt birds of a feather flock together. No beef with that. But with smaller schools the fact that athletes hang out together and make up a huge percentage of a small school, a non-athlete may have a harder time finding their own flock. So if there is athlete flocking happening more at one small school than another, a non-athlete who is concerned about that may want to take note before committing.
I don’t get how I am blaming athletes for anything? I am not saying the athletes are the partiers or artsy kids are stoners, or anybody is anything. But there is no question (is there?) that partying happens alongside college sports events (a la tailgating, for example) - some schools’ social scenes are more sports-inspired than others. Again, some small LACs are known for this more than others. Nothing wrong with that. If that is an issue for a student though, whether in finding their flock or finding things to do on a Saturday, it is a factor to consider before applying.
Thankfully not all colleges are the same - there is a lid for every pot.
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Wasn’t saying you, specifically, were blaming anyone. Just replying to the statement you made about the drinking culture. Also, if you are referring to the article that references athletes at Amherst, it states they make up “35 to 38% of the student body.” Definitely not the majority. So I’m not understanding how the non-athletes are finding it hard to find their “flock.”
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I am sure I read that article at some point, but also I have seen comments on many thread on CC over the years that it is an issue. Haverford and Williams to name others, iirc. There was one such post this past week (?) from a parent who didn’t name the school.
I have no connection to any of these schools, so take my hearsay to be worth the paper it is written on.
Interesting opinion from a Haverford student. A high academic school which values sports.
My daughter definitely hung out with her team, but also made time for other friends. In fact, she often played her sorority obligations against her team obligations when she didn’t want to hang with one group or the other. “oh sorry, I have practice” or “I already have plans for Friday night.” She also had roommates from another team and belonged to a few clubs. No group claimed all her time or allegiance.
Who did she hang out with the most? Her teammates. Who did she disagree with the most? Her teammates. But it was no different than my other daughter who was not an athlete and formed groups of friends with her dorm mates, with friends she met in her major, with her study abroad group.
That’s how college works - you hang out with those who you spend the most time with.
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Agree. As the article I linked mentioned, the athletes dedicate numerous hours to their sport, be it practice 6 days per week, team lifts, individual workouts, etc. My dd typically will eat meals with her team right before or right after practice or a workout, which are usually odd-hours compared to the rest of campus (due to 6 am or 6pm practices). Also, bonding with teammates is crucial to the success of the program. Any one who has ever played a sport would realize that. I don’t believe they are intentionally separating themselves from the rest of campus.
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Also travel, especially when flights are involved. There are also long bus rides. Hockey teams don’t leave Friday morning for a Friday night game. College sports participation is hard. Early morning practices, class missed for travel, trying to keep up with homework. During the season they don’t have a lot of time to hang out with people who aren’t on the team outside of class, that’s just the reality of their busy lives.
By the way, families also feel this and miss their kids. At an away weekend, you may travel to see them play on Friday and just get a few hugs and give them a care package in the lobby of the arena after the game. They often (for Div 1) aren’t released to have dinner with the family. Then repeat after game 2 the next day and they hustle to the bus to head home. Family sees each other (and other parents) a lot more than they see the athlete at away games.
You travel to your kid’s games?
Lots of families go to away games, not all of them but some… Especially those Thanksgiving weekend games. Some are driving distance.
And of course some of the “away” games might be closer to home than “home” games depending on how far away the college is from home. For example, if you live in Minnesota and the student plays for Ohio state, most of the away games are closer than the “home” games.
As far as I understand, the policies that Amherst follows are set by NESCAC athletic association, and are followed by all NESCAC colleges. So what’s true for Amherst is likely true for the rest of the NESCACs.
Other athletic conferences may have different policies, or may allow colleges to set their own policies, I don’t know.
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This article states that Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan have agreed to a slightly lower limit for the number of “athletic factors” than the standard for the NESCAC as a whole: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/25/sports/ncaafootball/one-division-iii-conference-finds-that-playing-the.html. Agreements may have changed since the article was written, however.
I think what happens is that Wesleyan, Williams and Amherst (aka, The Little Three) tend to lean forward a bit, in making agreements between themselves and the rest of the conference eventually adopts the same rules.
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Big 10 will be getting a multi billion dollar media rights deal from one or more of the networks, who are bidding for the new contract when the current deal with Fox expires in a couple of years. The rumor is that each Big 10 school will be receiving $100 mil plus per year, just from TV/media revenue. This is not 100% relevant to the original topic of this thread, which is more about top academic schools and athletics, but the fact is every school is trying to raise its profile and climb up the academic rankings, and sports plays a huge part of this facet of higher education. The SEC and other southern schools like Clemson are playing this game and making good progress, and the top 20 academics competing with them have to keep pace in this race. These schools are not going to scale back athletics as long as the people in this country view sports as a go to form of entertainment and, for many, an integral part of college experience. Just look at what Northwestern is spending on their new sports facilities.
Someone in this thread posted an article about Rutgers’ deficit from its athletics department - that deficit is the cost of doing business and staying in this game. In my opinion, Rutgers has to absorb these costs since they are in the Big 10 and there is no turning back - it is too large of an institution to be competing with Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, etc - its major competition until the 70’s. And if and when Rutgers gets to being more competitive in the major revenue sports, that deficit will shrink and the ancillary benefits will be immeasurable. Whether or not Rutgers ultimately meets its goals, IMO they have to make that effort. This is why by far the highest paid state employees are the football and basketball coaches.
All universities lost money during COVID
During the 2016-2017 season, a Big 10 school like Purdue had over $100 million in revenue with $95 million in expanses. Their profit was nearly $8 million.
If Purdue can make money from college athletics, an industry that continues to grow, I think Rutgers feels the same way. No schools are leaving the Power 5 conferences unless it is to join a wealthier Power 5 conference.
I think money is keeping all of the colleges that are highly involved in athletics, even if it appears that they are losing money hand over first.
OP - You’re answering your own questions (I hate when that happens):
Not really, I’m interested in knowing how much money they are actually getting from donors to offset the cost of running their programs.