And I would not recommend any UCs myself. Not even Berkeley. Too cutthroat and if you don’t mind non tenured faculty teaching…although the grad school can’t be beat. But that’s my personal opinion.
UT Austin admits about 3/4 of its frosh from Texas residents in the top 7% (or 6% in the near future). Based on application and admission numbers, the non-auto-admit applicants have admission rates of around 15%. Note that class rank is used instead of HS GPA.
Both UT Austin and UIUC fill up their engineering majors with direct admit frosh, so changing to a different engineering major after enrolling can be difficult. So can changing into one if admitted to the school but not the major (engineering majors have an additional selection hurdle beyond admission to the school).
“Should he/we be thinking about (and/or perhaps visiting) Penn, MIT, Duke, UVA, Carnegie-Mellon, Rice, Colorado School of Mines, Illinois, etc?”
How in the world are some of these better than GTech for Eng? I am purposely not taking names!
So, following up on the post two up:
If perhaps UT and/or Illinois are outliers in having a tightly constricted engineering pathway, how much flexibility is the norm? i.e. My possibly mistaken perception was that typically you applied to an engineering program, but the specific domain (i.e. nuclear, mechanical, etc.) was either not chosen or not really important for the first year or two and it was easy to switch among them. Yes, I understand that you generally start in the engineering school, and perhaps transfer out, rather than the reverse, but I thought at many/most colleges even that was not hard and fast.
Re: the school list vis-a-vis engineering. That’s kind of part of my question here. Its easy enough to look up rankings on the USNWR list or other lists, but I’m not sure how different those will be from engineering-specific lists, and if they ARE quite different, what are the better lists for prospective engineers (and/or perhaps the physical sciences and/or comp. sci.)
Here is some info on Rice, if you want to assess whether it is a fit:
- research university with a distinctive commitment to undergraduate education; about 50% STEM, 50% humanities/social sciences
- about 4000 undergraduates
- happily nerdy student body
- very community focused, and many systems in place that support students and tight knit community - residential college system in particular
- diversity is part of the Rice experience and mission; Rice seeks students who come from many different backgrounds and students who are comfortable with people from all different backgrounds
- collaborative, supportive environment
- A philosophy that “we are all in this together”; Rice is known for its “culture of care”. This is so important to Rice because Rice wants its students to continue care strongly about other people as they go into the world
- Rice students and graduates are committed to making the world a better place
It really depends on the school. In general, popular state flagships tend to have the most issues with more students wanting to major in engineering than the departments have space for, since they have plenty of interested students who are strong enough to handle the rigor of an engineering major.
A. Some fill each major with direct frosh admission. But then there is little space for those who want to change majors later, or enter an engineering major after being non-engineering, so doing so can require a very high college GPA or highly competitive process. UT Austin, UIUC, and many of the UCs are this way.
B. Some admit to a pre-engineering program, then have frosh/soph students compete for majors by college GPA and sometimes essays. Often only a few majors are competitive. Examples include Texas A&M, Minnesota, Purdue, Virginia Tech. A variant is the setting of progression GPAs that may be higher than 2.0 to avoid dismissal from the major, like at Wisconsin.
C. Some have plenty of departmental capacity to allow any student in the engineering division to choose any engineering major, with just a 2.0 GPA in prerequisites. Many less selective schools are this way, because the rigor of the curriculum weeds out students so that fewer choose engineering than the departments have room for. Among more selective schools, the best funded ones can be this way. Michigan is probably the best known public example; private ones would be Stanford, MIT, etc…
What you may want to do is web search for “[school name] change major [desired engineering major]” to get an indication of how “full” each engineering major at the school is.
US News also has undergraduate engineering rankings. Of the schools you’ve mentioned, Georgia Tech is ranked the highest. But, in engineering, ABET accreditation, recruiting strength, outcomes , fit, are important. Your son happens to like Georgia Tech- but if he didn’t , there would still be very good opportunities at Duke, UVA, Rice, Washington University, Colorado School of Mines, etc., even though they are all ranked lower than Georgia Tech.
But GA Tech is no slam dunk to get into, even with a 34 ACT. It’s always nice to have other choice. Living in Golden Colorado is a pretty nice 4 years too.
Agree, @twoinanddone I don’t think an admission to Georgia Tech engineering should be considered a given here.
@ucbalumnus is correct. UT is not necessarily a great fit for a student who wants to explore majors within engineering. We’ve heard more than one story of students who were not allowed to switch from one engineering major to another even within the first year.
@MWDadOf3: You really have no clue what a stellar engineering school GA Tech is. You need to do a little more research. Your son doesn’t have a school on his list that outranks GT. If ranking and prestige are important to you, you need to understand that GT absolutely IS one of the tippy top engineering schools. No one in the engineering world is going to question that one. Our son was accepted to the GT honors program, and it was his first civilian choice. In the end, he chose West Point (for other reasons) and is studying electrical engineering there, but WP engineering does not hold a candle to GT.
Oh, and he turned down a couple many seem to think outrank GT. They don’t.
I have to agree that unless he were accepted to MIT or the like that GT is one of the top opportunities in the country for engineering. Being in the Midwest you have a lot of excellent engineering schools to consider. If you consider UIUC also consider Purdue. They are similar on paper but have a different feel when visiting and they also will rank highly in nearly every engineering discipline. Most of the BIG10 engineering schools will be matches as opposed to safeties as they are state schools and are more competitive for OOS students. Good luck.
I would recommend spending time checking out the profiles of students accepted and rejected from various schools, and add in additional time spent researching accepted/rejected profiles of students by major if major is a factor in admissions. If he hasn’t taken any subject tests, he should research the admission requirements for various schools and understand their role at different schools.
While your ds sounds like a solid student, it is wise to stay grounded and be fully aware just how competitive admissions actually is . For example, GT’s 2017 admitted students had a profile of an avg ACT of 33 and 10.6 college courses. Their overall stats were SAT: 1360-1490, ACT: 30-34 // GPA: A, College-level courses: 8-13, Admit Rates= 18% OOS, 45% IS, 23% overall. (Their early action stats were released around this time last yr, so they should be out soon for this yr’s class.)
I would make sure you keep conversations real. He might be well-qualified for GT, but admitted and qualified are not synonyms. Be prepared for the fact that a 34 and numerous APs do not necessarily mean acceptance.
For schools with holistic admissions, compelling ECs, LOR, and essays are going to be strongly factored into admissions. Make sure he applies to a wide range of schools and do not get caught up in the false premise that top stat students will only find peers or be intellectually challenged at tippy top schools.
You might find this PP helpful for understanding how ECs might play a role in admissions. http://www.manhassetsca.org/HighSchool/articles2010-11/DonBettertonpresentation2011.05.17.pdf
Good luck to your ds as he creates his application list. I would encourage him to not hyper-focus on any one school. (In engineering, especially, there is no single school that is going to completely alter his career options in the future.) Create a list of schools across the admission spectrum that he would be happy to attend. That way next spring he is happy with all of his options.
Your son has excellent stats. He may be happy with Georgia Tech but he can’t assume he’ll get in. Therefore he needs a few more schools on his list. Every school will have pros and cons- I’m sure the older generations can argue the merits of their schools with each other.
Seems like engineering is his current choice, the exact field will be determined. Finances no problem as well. Post #33 last paragraph information to be read to your son.
I would hesitate with Wash U for two reasons. First- ideally he should leave home. Going across town versus to a whole new city/state. Second- there are many better places to be for STEM. When H’s relatives were applying there I looked it up. Math, engineering, chemistry, physics so much higher ranked at UW and several other schools. Top undergrads do take grad level courses. I saw only one general chem/calc class at wash U compared to several options at UW. Many Wash U students are premed- nothing wrong with that (I was a chemistry major who went on to become a physician) but it seems as though there will be a lot of students taking courses for premed and not because they are passionate about the subject. Likewise it seems nicer to be with a larger population of engineers as is found at major U’s.
He needs to make a list of pros and cons for several U’s of interest. He also needs to figure out priorities. The winter weather in Madison, WI may be a downer for him but something else may be a plus. Likewise for every school, including GA Tech. He can rank schools so he has viable options if his first choices do not accept him.
Remember that flagship U’s really have two tiers- the elite, often populating honors classes, and the next tier students who are still far above the average college student (remember on CC we don’t hear about the hundreds of more average schools most kids attend in their home states). Many high end gifted kids (we were in the Northwestern Talent Search region) attend their state flagship. btw- many gifted boys do not get top grades as they are less willing than girls to do the boring work (my son’s senior year was an example, sigh). So, a top tier private school likely will be much smaller and cut out many of the students at the flagship while there could be greater numbers of students with higher ability and the same interests. Percentages do not tell the whole story. Especially when one can get 100 math majors (not just premed students taking the only offered calculus classes) or high numbers in top engineering programs.
UW has become more competitive for engineering entry in recent years. But, your son is likely to be one of those getting the top grades and get into it. They also have begun some direct admits. So far computer science does not have limitations. Your son should choose schools with excellent departments in several potential fields of interest. He may change his plans after experiencing college courses like many do.
I wouldn’t limit yourself to schools that offer nuclear engineering. I’m not 100% sure, but I’ve heard from professors and adults that you can get a degree in one engineering field, then work in another. Also, he might want to change majors after a semester or two.
I would consider both UT and TAMU as very viable options. I also would consider Colorado School of Mines. My D18 engineering hopeful loved Mines when we visited. They also have focus on the whole geology piece mentioned. It is her #2 choice. TAMU is right behind as #3.
However, UT Austin should be considered a reach for non-auto-admit applicants, including all non-Texas residents. Admission to a desired engineering major is likely to be additionally difficult.
Check out Olin in Needham Mass, very selective with a project-oriented approach, and affordable I believe.
With financial constraints what are the in-state options?
He doesn’t sound sure of his focus, which is normal at his age, so finding the broadest program might be a good idea for undergrad.
He should join a club or start volunteering. There’s still time.