Crime in most places in the US is lower than it was 20 years ago (and even more so compared to 30 years ago, around the peak of the crime wave that ramped up in the 1970s-1980s until it peaked in the early 1990s).
So be careful of assuming that the neighborhood crime level around a given college when a current parent attended is similar now for the soon-to-enter-college student.
Is UPenn also on the forbidden list for this reason?
The thing is though that a school with a relatively high sexual assault rate might be a school where reporting sexual assaults is encouraged, and/or the investigation process humane.
There are many schools where people are afraid to report sexual assaults for many reasons, and/or the victim is victim shamed (which also results in fewer cases being reported)âŠ.so, a low rate of assaults can be quite misleading.
Itâs important to go beyond the data that one sees in the Clery report so that the data can be put in perspective.
Bronzerfish- be careful with the comparisons.
In some instances, a higher number of sexual assaults (as horrifying as that is) MIGHT mean fewer assaults than a campus with a low number. Why?
1- Local police will immediately take someone who has been assaulted to a clinic or ER for a rape kit. The days of âoh, go back to your dorm and take a shower and youâll feel betterâ are over.
2-Campus police will immediately report and escalate an incident and not suggest âWhy donât you get a good nights sleep and we can figure this outâ. Itâs not for a security guard to determine if a crime has been committed⊠itâs the job of the security guard to take seriously ALL reports of a crime, and to deal with the report appropriately. Not to paper over.
3- Better training at the higher reported rape campus. Not just law enforcement- dorm RAâs, Dean of students, Dean of housing⊠everyone who comes in contact with students. Better training of STUDENTS- no means no. The fact that sheâs drunk is not an invitation to assault her. The fact that sheâs a HS student attending a college party does not mean she wants you to rape her. Etc. You are likely seeing higher reported numbers at campuses which are MUCH more vigilant and are communicating, training and insisting âno means noâ.
As sad as this is- there are still campuses with low reported rates, where the students report a culture of âletâs work this out without law enforcement getting involved, shall we?â There are campuses where the message to the victim is 'you donât want to ruin his athletic career by a little partying that got out of hand, do you?" or âWell, itâs a he said, she said situation- do you really want to take that on a few months before you graduate?â
I applaud the colleges with high reported rates when they are DOING SOMETHING about it, vs. the colleges with miniscule rates which discourage or flat out shame the victim from reporting. yes, itâs still happening in 2023.
You beat me to it. The number of people who are shocked that we let our child go to a gritty east coast city when our âperfectâ college town is just as dangerous. Personally, I think itâs optics and perception, but this isnât the thread for that discussion. In sum, crime can happen anywhere.
If I see that a school has a party school reputation (though it also has excellent academics), heavy Greek presence, and highly prized sports, I do tend to make some assumptions if it has high crime as well.
My husband brought up the points that many of you all are making, and it is going to be each personâs best judgment on how much of the crime is avoidable.
Itâs naive to think that crime doesnât exist on or around every college campus, no matter how bucolic the setting.
As far as I know, not many colleges (if any) run individual criminal background checks on every incoming freshman. Thereâs a box to click on the Common App about criminal convictions but is everyone being truthful? Does anyone double check? Mixing thousands of incoming students each year with underaged drinking is bound to result in at least a few unpleasant situations.
Certainly, the cities mentioned above that have a track record of high crime should raise a red flag but the mistake some parents make is thinking that by tucking their kid away on a college campus (or by paying the tuition), itâs like sending them to Disneyland, where everything is perfect and no harm can come to them.
Also surprising are the number of parents who think just because the college is highly rated, that crime doesnât happen there.
Bronzerfish, old-timers here remember a poster from years ago who did this kind of stuff professionally (a statistician by training if I remember correctly). He had worked with large datasets on crime, alcohol abuse, victimology, perpetrator profiling, etc. and although I donât remember everything (he was an excellent community member) there are a couple of things that stand out:
1- HBCUâs- all lower rates of pathology, whether urban, rural or suburban. Lower drinking, lower crime, lower sexual assault.
2- Women only colleges- ditto
3- Urban campuses- in general- less drinking, less alcohol abuse, vs. rural campuses even when controlled for things like frats and sports. The qualitative data suggested that there are so many more entertainment options in a city- stuff to do on Saturday night- that isnât underage drinking in a dormitory with 20 kids crammed into a small space (canât take it to the lounge or a gathering space because the 18 year olds got the liquor how exactly?)
Other old timers can chime in- I think the posterâs name was âMiniâ and really- a wealth of information.
We live 5 miles from Paterson NJ, 4 miles fro Newark. I didnât bat an eye with my kids going to school in New Brunswick or Trenton, another got a very nice scholarship to Temple, she went in an unofficial visit during Covid and said no way. Sheâs been to NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, Montreal, New Orleans, Atlanta, and many trips to Philadelphia, was very uncomfortable with attending Temple.
My son has WF on his list. A few websites like Neighborhood Scout donât have flattering reviews for Winston Salem in the crime category. Has anyone else had this concern?
Note, this thread has been merged with the OPâs other thread on the same topic.
Iâm sure the college is perfectly safe. Campus police are on the ball at theses colleges and WF has an excellent reputation.
Read this thread for some perspective on college towns. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/t/washu-st-louis-crime-rate
Itâs worth noting that most crime associated with colleges is due to alcohol and sexual assault, unfortunately. Clery Reports have already been mentioned.
Like many schools WFU is miles from downtown, etc.
Not sure using that resource is a smart way to eliminate schools based on crime.
Youâd eliminate schools like Emory, Richmond, WUSTL - and theyâre not in the danger zones.
You could find other rankings or Clery reporting.
Niche gives each school a safety grade. You can look there too. They get a B+.
My daughters school is in the city (charleston) and gets a c+ for what itâs worth.
Their safety grades might help you directionally. But using city grades will be of no help.
My S21 goes to UNCSA. They and we are in Winston Salem all the time. I and they have never felt unsafe.
Have you visited? We visited back in 2012 with my older daughter and more recently have been to several football & basketball games there when WF plays my kidsâ colleges (and when our high school plays for the state football championship, itâs often at WF). Weâve never felt unsafe. My impression is that itâs pretty secluded from the grittier areas of Winston Salem. My recollection is that there is one direction into campus that is a bit iffy-looking and could give a bad impression to someone visiting WF, but on other borders to the campus there are very nice neighborhoods that I always assumed WF faculty lived in. I think there are nice areas of Winston Salem as well as those that arenât as nice, just like with any medium size to large city.
These correlate to the findings of lower college drinking at HBCUs (and by Black people) and at womenâs colleges (and by women).
Other correlates to college drinking include (not surprisingly) fraternities and sororities.
Agreed 100%. And this is coming from a parent of daughters. I donât know where weâre going with this, but if the point is that thereâs not much point in evaluating surrounding areas because sexual assault is ubiquitous on college campuses and itâs by far the most common form of assault, then Iâm not down with that logic. Mind you, Iâm one for more urban myself, and my kids take after me.
That said, you havenât lived until youâve been in a live situation with a criminal. Miami is much improved, but back in the day is was a very dangerous city and if you have any street sense at all you know when youâre in trouble. Iâve lived it and itâs no fun. My daughters knew the risks, we talked about it, etc. and they made their calculated decisions. But we didnât ignore off-campus crime. Depending on where you are, itâs a real thing.
UChicago was off our list
Every school is required to post its annual Clery report on its website (new report due at end of October each year). The report is very detailed and should provide information that may be helpful for those who are concerned about crime.
My own college was in a safe area of a city, but the off campus apartment I lived in was not. When I look back on it, I canât believe I lived there. Young, dumb and lucky.
If anecdotes are to be our guide . . .
Clery is a great resource, but it has limited jurisdiction, and thus the potential to miss off campus crimes.
From their web page it includes:
It came as a complete shock in Idaho. It was received almost matter of factly at Temple. The Temple example wasnât unique. The Idaho example was.