College Visit Trip: Second Stop Brandeis

Parents Forum
1

<p>Another hazhotmid day. Fortunately, the air conditioners at Brandeis were turned on high and we were comfortable for the day.</p>

<p>The prospectives were met at the front door by a sign welcoming by name each student who had called ahead. Nice touch. Each student filled out an info card and those that were being interviewed were given a form to sign in which they did or did not waive their right to see their evaluations. As we were waiting for the info session, several adcoms and students came into the waiting room and each sat with a group of 3 to 4 families making them at ease and answering questions.</p>

<p>For those parents who do not know, Brandeis is in suburban Waltham, about 9 miles from downtown Boston and 7 miles from Harvard. The campus is built in the hills and is separate from the mostly blue collar town of Waltham. Undergrads outnumber grad students (3100 undergrads). Approximately 50% of the student body is Jewish, though the mission of the school has always been non-sectarian and there many different religions represented. Jewish students range from orthodox observant to not at all. Under the current President, the endowment has increased from $110 mill to $500 mill. An improvement, but nowhere near the levels of HYP or even UMich, partly because the school is only 57 years old.</p>

<p>Some observations: The campus is overall beautifully landscaped with surprises like neat sculptures, a patch of stella d'oro daisies and benches in unexpected places. It is fairly secluded from the surrounding town, quite hilly, and wooded. The buildings are modern and in good shape. The dorms are perhaps the exception and are bit more rundown. With one exception, these are standard issue college dorms. The exception is "The Castle", a real, if weirdly built, castle that was present on the property before it was purchased for use by Brandeis and is now a sophomore dorm with weirdly shaped rooms. There is minimal screening that goes into decisions about freshman roomates, primarily the desire to smoke or not. The tour guide advised sending in housing deposits as soon as decisions are made about enrollment since room assignments are made on a first come basis to the nicest rooms. After the freshman year, a housing lottery is used. Approx 85% students live on campus.</p>

<p>The students waiting to tour and interview were quite homogenous in appearance. White, mostly Jewish (my D is not), and decidedly NOT the group that wears the collars of their polo shirts up! No Topsiders or Docksides. The student body is 15% minority, per the info session. Encouragingly, 40% of the faculty are women. Admissions are not necessarily need-blind; significant merit aid, including full-ride scholarships are available for the tippety top students; and although they "try", they do not guarantee to meet 100% of the student's financial need. The endowment doesn't support this.</p>

<p>Students who go to Brandeis LOVE Brandeis. Every student we spoke with loved being there. They were of the brainy, let's not talk BS type, each absolutely enthusiastic about their various fields of study: one student who was a senior in politics, one did research in the lab of the scientist who invented Smart Balance margarine along with other undergrads, several with double majors with more minors in very different fields. Although there is a core curriculum, unlike at other schools, students may "double count" classes to fill requirements. I.e., a language class may fill the language requirement and the humanities requirement.</p>

<p>My D was quite pleased with her interview to which she took her resume. She noted the adcom glanced and asked a few questions from the resume and kept it. Other questions were: "If you had a yellow hilighter and could highlight one point on your app, what would it be?" "Who would you invite to dinner and why?" "What works would you use if you were to teach an English class and why?"</p>

<p>After the day at Brandeis and the 2 1/2 hour drive to Williams, I'm fading fast. If you have any questions ask away. Tomorrow, a day long open house at Williams.</p>

2

<p>Thanks for the write-up. Looking forward to reading about Williams.</p>

3

<p>My older boy came within a whisker of going to Brandeis. Good school that combines the pluses of a LAC (smallish; focus on undergrads) and a university (research opportunities; high-powered faculty). I have found that a lot of people have never heard of the school but those who have respect it tremendously. It's especially good for high-achieving middle-class students who don't make the really elite schools, as Brandeis will give them merit aid. Son was offered $10K/yr and one of his friends got close to full tuition.</p>

4

<p>quiltguru,
Great write-up! If you can grab some down time at Williams, visit the Clark Art Institute in Williamstown or attend a performance at the Williamstown Theatre Festival.</p>

5

<p>Quiltguru, last year Brandeis offered Blue Ribbon Applications. S got one because we had toured. Free to apply, and the schools give you a decision way before April. It is NOT binding. I don't know if financial aid package info would be available at the same time.</p>

6

<p>We got a similar impression of "The Deis". All of the students seemed to love it. As we went around, the students would give the tour the thumbs up and yell out encouragement to come there.</p>

<p>I haven't heard anything about the blue ribbon apps this year. Anyone?</p>

7

<p>I never knew Brandeis was that generous with aid. What are the stats of applicants who get these scholarships? Is it too competitive to get one?</p>

8

<p>Quiltguru, were you able to get any sense of the music department? Number of majors in music? My daughter and I won't be visiting until either October or November, although at that time, she hopes to do an overnight, so your visit is whetting our appetites!</p>

9

<p>When a college is 50% fraternity / sorority members, it's often a concern to those who aren't inclined to go Greek because they fear that they might be on the outside socially, looking in. Do you have a sense from non-Jewish students at Brandeis that they have the same concerns given the social structure of their campus?</p>

10

<p>I don't know specific scholarship stats, but Brandeis will definitely come through with aid. My friend wrote a letter to them saying that she wanted to come but needed more help than she got from filling out FAFSA, and Brandeis responded and gave her a substantial amount...at least 15 grand I think. They will come through!
I can't really write about what it's like to be a non-Jewish student at Brandeis until I start there next week. In all honesty, my gut tells me that it won't be an issue. I'm looking foward to learning about different faiths and beliefs. The class of 2009 is the first class where the majority of the studnets are not Jewish. Also, going to a school at a 'Jewish university' is a bonus because you get days off in October for religious holidays. If your son or daughter is put off by a prominent Jewish presence on campus, then he or she should probably not be considering elite private universities.</p>

11

<p>gadad </p>

<p>I didn't understand your question initially, but now I see that you were making an analogy of frats to the jewish students as a social group. But I don't think that you can make that analogy because, based on conversations with students who attend there, most of the Jewish kids there (as is my son who will attending this fall) are pretty nonsectarian. They have a Jewish identity and thus share certain cultural experiences but do not make jewish religious practices a central part of their life. As a result the friendships they make are based on things other than religion. Even though we are Jewish, we are not orthodox and wanted to be reassured that our son would feel comfortable there. We were in fact reassured and as Stain99 says we will be finding out shortly in person.</p>

12

<p>I am glad to see that others have responded to gadad. I thought about doing so but just didn't know what to say since I was quite taken aback by the comparison of the common factor of Judaism to the common factor of belonging to a fraternity. It seems to assume that all Jews are alike and that they therefore created a unified exclusive culture. If you are comparing other schools do you naturally assume that their cultures are alike because they all have over 50% Protestants attending -- and that non-Protestants would feel socially uncomfortable there?</p>

<p>When one is used to being in the majority and finds oneself faced with not being in the majority it is easy to feel uneasy at the loss of one's comfort zone - but perhaps its more important to ask why that should make one feel uncomfortable -- it is something that those in the minority live with all the time.</p>

13

<p>We have seen questions similar to that of gadad posted on the boards of BC, Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc. Many non-catholics feel that they would be uncomfortable at catholic schools and I don't think that raising the question of a non-jewish student feeling uncomfortable or out of place at Brandeis is any different, or for that matter inappropriate here. We have also seen posts from jewish students inquiring as to whether they would feel out of place at a given college - they are usually directed to the school's Hillel link for guidance or reassurance. I was able to find a link to the catholic student organization at Brandeis (<a href="http://people.brandeis.edu/%7Ecso/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://people.brandeis.edu/~cso/&lt;/a&gt;) and I would imagine other religions are represented on campus as well. College is a big investment, both financially and emotionally for the student and his/her family. Finding the "right fit" can be difficult, and if someone isn't comfortable being in the minority (some kids actually thrive on this) there are plenty of other alternatives.</p>

14

<p>Brandeis has 3 official chapels (Jewish, Catholic and Protestant) situated on a green such that one never casts a shadow on any other. In addition there is an Islam prayer room and many other religions/denominations are represented. Yes, the culture of the campus is slanted to the majority religion. But students of the >20 other religions represented on campus are comfortable, too.</p>

15

<p>I attended Brandeis many years ago. Some aspects of my experience there were due to my unfamiliarity with American culture more generally, and some with Jewish culture more specifically. Perhaps because I was foreign, the fact that Brandeis students were predominantly Jewish did not strike me as odd or different. My prior exposure to Jews before had been practically nil, but so had my exposure to Americans. I find this aspect of Brandeis interesting rather than uncomfortable.
Obviously, a school with a very large Jewish student body would observe Jewish holidays more closely than schools with fewer Jewish students. Non-Jews, for example, could not but feel the impact of so many students observing Yom Kippur and other Jewish holidays. My friends used to joke that Chinatown was to be avoided the following day as it would be filled with Jews breaking their fast. There was only one kosher cafeteria but none carried pork dishes. At the insistence of students, we began being served beef bacon.
Most of the profs were Jewish, teaching predominantly Jewish students. Some made what my Jewish friends recognized as Jewish jokes, and had to be explained to me (but so did references to baseball).
There was an overwhelming urban/suburban feel to the student population. Many came from NYC and suburbs.
Brandeis was very liberal. It was committed to Affirmative Action (one of my roommates occupied an administration building to demand even more). It set up an Upward Bound program to help promising but underprepared blacks. It had a very active SDS chapter and served as an important center for organizing student protests against the Cambodia invasion and the killings at Kent State.
I was never uncomfortable. Brandeis had (and still has) a very generous scholarship program for foreign students; their presence made a real impact on the social life of the university.
I believe that the Brandeis culture has become even more secular than when I was there, while the student body has become a bit more conservative than it was in the 60s.
I enjoyed my time at Brandeis. I got a great education, made some lifelong friends and learned some Jewish jokes. I never got to like beef bacon.</p>

16

<p>scma-
If gadad had merely posted the question as to how non-Jewish students found things at Brandeis, I would not have had the same reaction - in fact that question has come up on the Brandeis forum. But comparaing a 50% Jewish population to 50% fraternity membership in terms of determining tone of the campus did I think reflect certain assumptions that are of concern. It made the question come across not as one of, "will I, as a non-Jew, be able to be comfortable there" but rather as a question of "will all those Jews make me feel out of place." The difference is whether you are looking at the needs of the prospective student or you are making assumptions about the other group. If you cannot see the difference, I don't know how else to explain it.</p>

<p>Comparing Jewish students to students who voluntarily choose to be part of what are by definition exclusionary social clubs (ie fraternities) is an analogy that remains troubling to me. Almost by definition there will be social differences between those who choose to go frat and those who choose not to. Jewish students, at Brandeis or any other campus, are far from a homogeneous group.</p>

17

<p>My son visited Brandeis on our college tour, and found many positive things. He is interested in majoring in biology wherever he goes, but we still have one concern about the school. Something the tour guide said had made us think that there is a larger gap than usual at Brandeis between those students doing science and those with majors in the social sciences and humanities. The guide made a side remark that he even knew some pre-meds who managed to find time to act in a play, which he assured us was quite amazing. This surprised us, since my son has a close friend in poli sci who just finished up his freshman year. The one thing this kid raves about is all the EC's on the campus and the fact that he has time to participate and also do his work. </p>

<p>We all know that long hours in the lab can mean that science students spend more time at their work than other disclipines. But I had the feeling that in terms of workload and competition there is a sharp divide at Brandeis between those in the sciences and those who are not. When my son asked his friend, he waffled a little (He wants my son to go there!), but seemed to admit there is a culture gap between the science and the non-science students, with the former buried under a pile of work and the latter out doing "interesting things" without near as much work. </p>

<p>My son has no trouble working hard at academics, but he wants some time for other things. (He does understand lab hours are long.) Plus, he said he'd rather see a campus with everyone working hard (or so he says!) rather than having it fall so heavily on one group. Is this an accurate concern or just an inaccurate perception we managed to pick up from two specific people -- the one a friend and the other a guide?</p>

18

<p>Cami, you have to distinguish between Science and pre-med.
I think at some campuses, kids who self-identify as pre-med have a lifestyle which is different from other kids, since med school admissions are so GPA driven. We know kids at many schools majoring in such diverse things as philosophy, comparative literature and music who plan to go to med school. They've had college experiences which seem pretty similar to those of other kids... even with Organic chemistry thrown in there. However, the kids who have decided before they show up at school that they're "pre-med" do seem to bury themselves, to the exclusion of other interests and activities. They seem cautious in their choice of humanities classes, even when there are distribution requirements, so that they don't "dilute" the all-holy GPA. They don't challenge themselves so much outside of their comfort zone; the EC's they do are easily containable (an intramural sport, for example, where you don't get penalized for not showing up) vs. acting in plays where rehearsal time can go until 2 am.</p>

<p>This may not be typical of all pre-meds... but IS typical of my kids friends....</p>

<p>I think Brandeis is probably no different from its peer institutions, so you need to ask if this is a pre-med phenomenon, or if it extends to other science majors.</p>

19

<p>The perception that pre-meds are buried under a heavy workload is not specific to Brandeis.</p>

20

<p>I WAS a pre-med and I think the perceptions about pre-meds fit some of my classmates to a T...but not my hubby or me. Grade grubbers are grade grubbers wherever they attend college. Although I loved my chemistry major, I adored my distribution requirements taking subjects covering the gamut from the Japanese language to Western Civilization to the History of the South and I sang in 3 choral groups. My point in all this is that there is often a "divide" between the grade grubbers (who are NOT the ones who get in to the top med schools) and everyone else at colleges. We had conversations with a student who was a biochemistry major who played in the orchestra and sang in the combined Brandeis-Wellesley chorus. I would advise you not to let one or two students' slanted comments drive your child away. Good luck!</p>